FOPA, specifically in a minivan, when travelling through MA with handgun

hillman

hillman

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I know the question of FOPA and travelling with handguns has been asked before but I am specifically asking about travelling in a minivan through Mass. My father will be travelling from his home in SC to his other house in VT soon and wants to bring a couple of his pistols for some target practice while he is up in VT (hates going to public ranges in SC). He has a copy of the FOPA rules but is worried about the restrictions in CT and MA. He will be driving a minivan and will have two locked safes in the back end, out of reach, one with pistols, the other with ammo. Since a minivan does not have a "trunk", he is worried that this will not count in MA. He already knows not to stop even for gas here.

Also, he has pre-ban 15 round mags for one of his pistols. Does FOPA protect him there as well or should he mail them?

Thanks.
 
He's good to go. If he's coming from SC. Tell him to take 95 to 81 to 84 to 87 to 90 to 91. It's faster and he stays out of NJ (can't have hollow points) and NYC. He can overnight in PA legally.
 
Why do you think he can't stop for gas?

§926A. Interstate transportation of firearms
Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.​
 
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From a legal standpoint as long as he complies exactly with the FOPA rules, he can travel with them.

No less than three states will along his path will attempt to screw him to the wall for ANY mistake in them, IF he comes to their attention. No speeding, no road rage.

Polite guy just driving through... should be fine.
 
namedpipes said:
From a legal standpoint as long as he complies exactly with the FOPA rules, he can travel with them.

No less than three states will along his path will attempt to screw him to the wall for ANY mistake in them, IF he comes to their attention. No speeding, no road rage.

Polite guy just driving through... should be fine.
Click to expand...

BORING!!!!!! [laugh]
 
Along the same lines....I just got a new job and the road I travel to and from work takes me through a 10 mile stretch of RI (start in MA and end in MA) I have been exercising my right to carry concealed for years and want to continue. I thought about getting a LTC in RI but saw the form and gave up that idea. Do I need to pull over before the boarder and lock my stuff up then I can get it when I get to MA? Doing this 2 times a day made me stop carrying but now I just feel like I'm missing something? Any ideas, I also worry that I may forget to lock it some day and something minor like a car accident or traffic violation in RI would result in a MAJOR issue?
 
namedpipes said:
I don't think RI recognizes any other permits. You would have to get a RI non resident permit, comply with fopa or take your chances.

(eta: Or alter your route!)
Click to expand...

This. You seem to have 4 options:
1. At the border, unload your pistol and lock the ammo and pistol in the trunk.
2. Apply for a non-resident RI permit.
3. Alter your route.
4. Break the law and risk it.

I think #2, and #3 are the best courses of action.
 
Actually, Rhode Island law does let you pass through the state while carrying on another state's license:

That's the federal code that doesn't apply in this instance because it does not allow for CCW. The relevant statute is RI § 11-47-8:

"No person shall, without a license or permit issued [...] carry a pistol or revolver in any vehicle or conveyance or on or about his or her person whether visible or concealed [...] The provisions of these sections shall not apply to any person who is the holder of a valid license or permit issued by the licensing authority of another state, or territory of the United States, or political subdivision of the state or territory, allowing him or her to carry a pistol or revolver in any vehicle or conveyance or on or about his or her person whether visible or concealed, provided the person is merely transporting the firearm through the state in a vehicle or other conveyance without any intent on the part of the person to detain him or herself or remain within the state of Rhode Island."
Click to expand...
 
I just heard a story about a major gun manufacturer's rep being arrested for having new-in-box guns in his minivan on the way to Maine to make sales calls. He got busted for improper transport (after he argued his way in to a speeding ticket).

... Although the trooper was mistakenly saying that trigger locks on each (brand new) gun would have been sufficient.
 
M1911 said:
Actually, Rhode Island law does let you pass through the state while carrying on another state's license:
Click to expand...

Listen to M1911, he has the correct answer.

I know that everyone is trying to just be helpful, but if you aren't 100% that you KNOW the law, it is most helpful not to respond with bad info and just wait for someone to respond with the correct info.


RichM said:
I just heard a story about a major gun manufacturer's rep being arrested for having new-in-box guns in his minivan on the way to Maine to make sales calls. He got busted for improper transport (after he argued his way in to a speeding ticket).

... Although the trooper was mistakenly saying that trigger locks on each (brand new) gun would have been sufficient.
Click to expand...

This is apples and oranges to the question posed.

FOPA requires "locked case" and MGL allows a "locked case" or "locked trunk". Sounds like this guy had "none of the above"! True that the Trooper didn't know the law either, but nothing was going to help this mfr's rep in this case! Factory boxes don't cut it unless they were locked!
 
M1911 Thanks for the info. Do you think I should confirm this with the state police in RI? Looks like I don't need to worry about it as long as I am just passing through but as been stated before there are a lot of people/police who don't know the laws. Maybe I should print the law and carry that as well?
Thanks for the help.

Also, while we are on the subject of vehicles, does a 'soft' case if locked count in MA as a 'locked case' ? I have a van (no trunk) and use a soft case for my AR. It is trigger locked and the case zipper is locked.
 
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LenS said:
Listen to M1911, he has the correct answer.

I know that everyone is trying to just be helpful, but if you aren't 100% that you KNOW the law, it is most helpful not to respond with bad info and just wait for someone to respond with the correct info. . . .
Click to expand...

Left at that, someone might draw the incorrect conclusion that RI recognizes outher state's permits. They do not. If you were to go to some place in RI as a destination, do something there and go home, and happened to be carrying, you'd be in violation of their law.

They have a more forgiving, state local version of FOPA where the transport requirements are not as restrictive as FOPA. You can continue to carry as you pass through their state. (as M1911 pointed out)
 
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TZCHRIS said:
M1911 Thanks for the info. Do you think I should confirm this with the state police in RI? Looks like I don't need to worry about it as long as I am just passing through but as been stated before there are a lot of people/police who don't know the laws. Maybe I should print the law and carry that as well?
Click to expand...
Police are not attorneys. They are often woefully ignorant of the law. If you do a google search, find the Rhode Island statute online and are still not satisfied, then consider contacting the Rhode Island Firearms Owners League or a Rhode Island firearms attorney.

Note that this statute only covers you if you are passing through. I wouldn't make any stops in RI.
Also, while we are on the subject of vehicles, does a 'soft' case if locked count in MA as a 'locked case' ? I have a van (no trunk) and use a soft case for my AR. It is trigger locked and the case zipper is locked.
Click to expand...

Chief Ron Glidden has opined that it does meet the statute, however I am unaware of any precedent on this issue. Who wants to be the test case?
 
I for sure don't want to be the test case, I also wonder if I was breaking any laws when I brought the gun home? It was in the factory box, unopened. To my surprise when I got home and opened it the trigger lock was not on, it was packaged up next to the gun? I would have assumed the lock would have been on it?
 
TZCHRIS said:
I for sure don't want to be the test case, I also wonder if I was breaking any laws when I brought the gun home? It was in the factory box, unopened. To my surprise when I got home and opened it the trigger lock was not on, it was packaged up next to the gun? I would have assumed the lock would have been on it?
Click to expand...

Even if it had been on it wouldn't have met the requirement for transport.

(Congrats on being the latest felon gun owner in MA, thanks to our "keep 'em guessing" gun laws.)
 
I see that now, I know my ignorance is no excuse but why would the dealer/gun shop let me walk out with it not in the proper case? I guess once I leave the shop its my responsibility.
 
TZCHRIS said:
I see that now, I know my ignorance is no excuse but why would the dealer/gun shop let me walk out with it not in the proper case? I guess once I leave the shop its my responsibility.
Click to expand...

Per MGL, the dealer's job is to sell it to you WITH a gun lock, not to install it. Gun locks (on gun) do NOT meet MGLs for transport, only "storage" (read MGL C. 140 S. 131C and 131L).

Yes, once you walk out the door, it's your responsibility and the dealer doesn't know if you drive a truck, minivan, motorcycle or sedan.

You should think about taking my MA gun laws seminar, see link in sig line. It will explain these differences, FOPA included. Of course, your head is likely to explode by the end of the seminar from all the idiosyncrasies that you are responsible to know.
 
TZCHRIS said:
I see that now, I know my ignorance is no excuse but why would the dealer/gun shop let me walk out with it not in the proper case? I guess once I leave the shop its my responsibility.
Click to expand...

Gunshop clerks are not lawyers. There's a whole thread on here about "insane things a gun shop told me" (or something to that effect.) For the most part they're entry level retail workers who would probably be working at the mall if they didn't happen to find that job first.

There are exceptions of course....
 
TZCHRIS said:
I for sure don't want to be the test case, I also wonder if I was breaking any laws when I brought the gun home? It was in the factory box, unopened. To my surprise when I got home and opened it the trigger lock was not on, it was packaged up next to the gun? I would have assumed the lock would have been on it?
Click to expand...

The MA transport statute requires that the gun be in a locked case, locked trunk, or other secure container. A trigger lock is not sufficient to meet the MA statute. So, yes, you were breaking the law when you brought it home in the box.
 
MisterHappy said:
Len,

Your post is for handguns, yes? For transport of a non-hi-cap long gun, the steps you detail are not required, correct?

It's PRUDENT to exceed the basics, but not mandated .....

Gotta love the hair-splitting in the MGLs....
Click to expand...

He mentioned an AR15 previously, so my assumption is that was what he was talking about transporting home from the dealer. That would clearly be a large capacity rifle, and thus has to be transported in a locked case, locked trunk, or other secure container. You are correct about non-large capacity long guns (though I do recommend locking them up when transporting them, even though that is above and beyond statutory requirements).
 

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