Trolling again? Or is it "still trolling"?
Note the word "also", it means "in addition to". So in addition to seeing it the way I want too, I see an HK sticker. It's called english, a handy skill to have.
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Florida city commissioner shoots, kills alleged shoplifter, surveillance video shows
- Thread starter commodon
- Start date
Note the word "also", it means "in addition to". So in addition to seeing it the way I want too, I see an HK sticker. It's called english, a handy skill to have.
The perp has a deadly weapon in his hand, this is a known fact. What his intent is, only the perp knows. What the store owner is seeing is a bad guy with a deadly weapon, I don't blame him for not waiting around to see what the perp is going to do with the axe. Good shoot. No way a jury will convict, too much what ifs and doubt of perp's intent. 21' rule, were talking a 4' situation, one step towards the store owner with a swing and the store owner is potentially hit with an axe. Again, unknown what the perp's intent is upon being confronted but he's in possession of a deadly implement.
The judge denied bail probably on political BS, wonder if he's up for election or a democrat. People who do much worse are assigned bail.
The judge denied bail probably on political BS, wonder if he's up for election or a democrat. People who do much worse are assigned bail.
One more observation, everything leading up to the actual point of shooting is moot. His decisions prior to the shoot could have been a better choice, but this comes down to a few split second(s). The perp is armed with a deadly weapon with unknown intent. Deadly weapon is deadly weapon, knife, gun, axe or grenade, all deadly. Store owner feared for his life upon weapon being displayed, enough doubt.
Jason Flare
NES Member
Holy Kow!
Jason Flare
NES Member
I know. Someone saw the HK sticker and felt it important enough to mention it.
Carefuk where you tread on statements like this.
"What was he going to do with that hatchet....may have saved some or limb".
I don't like being judged by the anti crowd for what they "presume" I MIGHT do with a fire arm.....let's not do the same for a homeless guy and a hatchet.
I'm talking pure legal speak here......but with an ascertation like that......if someone steals a hunting kinife from a sporting goods store it's an assumption that the perp is now going to commit a crime with it so it's ok to shoot em to stop a crime that hasn't happened?
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That bar lowered itself mainly due to people's lack of any type of religious background and the general disregard for other people's property. It has NOTHING to do with tax cuts or cutting or law enforcement or prisons.
It has more to do with third worlders and minorities that think they are entitled to what ever the next guy has and the insatiable quest for the dollar, lack of work ethic and lack of ethics period.
It has to do with the standards of those that they hire. To get into Law Enforcement (and to a large degree as well, Corrections) you have to be a saint, and olympic athlete, and have a high college degree. I worked with 3 other officers who demonstrated respect, judgement, common sense and a firm sense of duty. All were raised Catholic and all failed polygraphs so they were not allowed to become police officers. I worked with some who were great athletes and had college degrees, but had no morals when you worked with them. Several of those passed polygraphs. Why the difference? Because being raised Catholic causes you to have great guilt about anything that you have done wrong. Did you ever take a pencil that didn't belong to you? If so, and raised Catholic, you probably agonized over it for a long time. The ones who had no morals and passed polygraphs tended to feel that if they took something, they deserved it. They had no memory of what they did wrong, and so had no remorse or guilt over what they had done, and flew through polygraphs.
Damn, that was the hatchet in the guys hand behind the door? That might change my vote. I need to read all the posts before voting.
If, IF, that is the hatchet, it changes the level of threat at the time of the shooting. Is it enough to say 'good shoot'? I don't know without more information. If it's a big town where police are seconds away, it's simply best to be a good witness if at all possible.
EJFudd
NES Member
Funny how so many here have been fooled by the edited TV clip into thinking that the perp did not have the hatchet in his hand as he tried to fight off the store owner to get away. The longer video is crystal clear.
All I can say is that the DA and prosecutor would not want me on that jury. I do not take kindly to shoplifters... especially the "armed with a stolen hatchet" kind.![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
All I can say is that the DA and prosecutor would not want me on that jury. I do not take kindly to shoplifters... especially the "armed with a stolen hatchet" kind.
You are right. There is a massive double standard. Zero chance a cop is charged with anything. On or off duty.
“He should have complied.”
“He had a weapon in his hand.”
Etc.
That’s not how things work.
Palladin
NES Member
To me personally, not a dam thing.
To the situation?
Was this a gun store? Could change the dynamics of the situation. Could also be used by the cops to make him look like a gun nut. Context of what happened is important, and we don't have it.
Looks to me like he shot him to stop him from fleeing, not because he perceived him to be a threat. Now is using deadly force justified to protect your property? That’s a matter of opinion.
FrugalFannie
NES Member
In some states it's a matter of law. TX clearly states that I can shoot to protect my property. Personally, if your stealing my tv, I'm not going to shoot you. But that's just me.
Jason Flare
NES Member
FrugalFannie
NES Member
When I look at these things, I'm looking for any excuse to call it self-defense, to give the shooter the benefit of the doubt. I can't see it here, and that's not what I wanted to see. If Florida law permits him as a merchant to detain with threat of deadly force for petty theft, then he might have been within his rights. But that's what he needs, IMHO.
You can see that Lopez's grip on the hatchet in his right hand was choked up all the way to the blade, and he had hooked the handle around the door, probably to give himself a grip to resist the force of the merchant trying to pull him back. The hatchet was not in a striking grip when he was shot, nor at any time in the doorway. If Lopez had stopped pulling away and started to shift his weight back towards the merchant while unhooking the hatchet handle from around the door, I'd be all for shooting him instantly, even without him attempting to modify his grip to a striking grip, but none of that happened here. The hatchet handle stayed hooked around the door, and Lopez was pulling away to the point of falling down. I think he would have fallen without being shot. The merchant showed he wasn't in fear when he grabbed him by the shoulder while Lopez had his back turned, to the the point of grabbing the shirt when the grip on the shoulder failed.
The self-defense claim might get him a hung jury, I guess, but I think it's just a calculated thing here. I don't believe this merchant was in fear. His actions belie it. Probably at the time he thought he was within his legal rights to detain Lopez using any level of force.
You can see that Lopez's grip on the hatchet in his right hand was choked up all the way to the blade, and he had hooked the handle around the door, probably to give himself a grip to resist the force of the merchant trying to pull him back. The hatchet was not in a striking grip when he was shot, nor at any time in the doorway. If Lopez had stopped pulling away and started to shift his weight back towards the merchant while unhooking the hatchet handle from around the door, I'd be all for shooting him instantly, even without him attempting to modify his grip to a striking grip, but none of that happened here. The hatchet handle stayed hooked around the door, and Lopez was pulling away to the point of falling down. I think he would have fallen without being shot. The merchant showed he wasn't in fear when he grabbed him by the shoulder while Lopez had his back turned, to the the point of grabbing the shirt when the grip on the shoulder failed.
The self-defense claim might get him a hung jury, I guess, but I think it's just a calculated thing here. I don't believe this merchant was in fear. His actions belie it. Probably at the time he thought he was within his legal rights to detain Lopez using any level of force.
Jason Flare
NES Member
A real collectors item.
Jason Flare
NES Member
