Florida city commissioner shoots, kills alleged shoplifter, surveillance video shows

[commodon]

The moment a Florida city commissioner shot and killed a man suspected of shoplifting from his store is seen in a stunning surveillance video released by authorities Monday, as prosecutors weigh whether the gun-toting store owner should face charges.

Lakeland City Commissioner Michael Dunn confronted Cristol Lopez at the Vets Army & Navy surplus store on Oct. 3 after Dunn suspected Lopez of shoplifting, the Lakeland Police Department said.

Police said at the time that Lopez -- a 50-year-old homeless felon who was staying at a nearby shelter -- had tried to leave the store with a hatchet down his pants, FOX13 reported.

In surveillance video released Monday, Dunn can be seen holding a gun in his right hand while attempting to keep Lopez from carrying the hatchet out of the store.

Dunn can then be seen grabbing Lopez by his shirt as the 50-year-old is able to get partially out the door. Lopez appears to be holding some type of object in his right hand. It is unclear in the video if the object is the hatchet that Lopez is suspected of trying to steal because the business' front door obstructs his hand.

As Lopez pulls free, Dunn fires two shots at Lopez, who then falls to the ground in front of the store. He later died from his injuries.

The day after the shooting, Dunn's attorney told FOX13 that Dunn was in fear for his life at the time he fired at Lopez.

"[Lopez] was given that chance, and made a choice not to accept responsibility and wait for law enforcement to come, to have an investigation, so Michael had to do things under split seconds to protect himself, his business and his community,” defense attorney Rusty Franklin said.

The Lakeland Police Department said Monday it was still investigating the shooting and the State Attorney’s Office is deciding whether Dunn will face charges in the shooting. State Attorney Brian Haas told FOX13 on Monday the investigation into the incident should be wrapped up by the end of this week.

"Though citizens may have strong feelings about what is depicted, we ask you to remain patient as our department continues to work with the State Attorney's Office to investigate," police said.

 

[highlander]

Unless the store owner can show that Lopez was about to hit him with the hatchet he's screwed. Plus it looks like Lopez was outside the store when shot.

 

[appraiser]

I know Florida has a "Stand Your Ground" Castle Doctrine type law, that has IMHO been abused allowing questionable, if not outright bad shootings go unpunished, but nothing is going to save this guys backside, short of Jury Nullification.

What was the justification for use of or escalation of force?

 

[Lip]

Hmm more of this may discourage shoplifting and drop the prices we all pay. Good shoot? No. Do I feel pity for the thief? No.

 

[PaulR]

Look at those poll results, bunch of honest gun people here.

 

[xtry51]

Theif caught is act? Check.

Good shoot.

So tired of this victim protection bullshit. If he didn't want to get shot, he should have listened to the armed owner of the shit he was stealing.

 

[Palladin]

Theif caught is act? Check.

Good shoot.

So tired of this victim protection bullshit. If he didn't want to get shot, he should have listened to the armed owner of the shit he was stealing.

this is it in a nutshell.

 

[FPrice]

Shooting the thief over a $20 hatchet and the thief is trying to flee, not attacking the shop keeper?

Nope, I would not shoot.

YMMV. As will your sentence.

 

[Cartoons]

We're not talking food items here - but a deadly weapon. What does a homeless felon need with a Hatchet?

 

[trinorbsa]

We're not talking food items here - but a deadly weapon. What does a homeless felon need with a Hatchet?

Hey! Plenty of reasons, cut down a palm tree, make fire wood, keep warm???

 

[IPSC_DRL]

Hey! Plenty of reasons, cut down a palm tree, make fire wood, keep warm???

Threaten, rob, steal, can be used for lots of things..........................

 

[nstassel]

I'm ok with it but I'm ok in principle with shooting thieves. I think he's totally screwed legally and practically though.

 

[ThePreBanMan]

Someone loses their life over a 20.00 dollar hatchet? Even if it is legal (and I don't think it will be a "good shoot" per say) - do I want to take a life over 20 bucks and endure the resulting legal headaches which could bankrupt me?

Eff that. I would rather give the surveillance vids to the popo and let them worry about it. I don't see a weapon anywhere in those pics. There may be other angles we do not see, but from what I can see - no way I even draw on the guy much less shoot.

From what I see the escalation of force was all from the store owner. He put hands on him, tried to restrain him and keep him in the store, when he refused to comply, he dished out a couple of slugs to the chest.

Was he a thief, sure. Did he deserve to die for it, that I'm not so sure about.

 

[xtry51]

I don't care what you are stealing and what I think something is worth is not relevant to what others think. Would I shoot him? Nope. But I'm not forcing my choices onto others using the law to feelings. If you don't want to risk getting shot DONT STEAL SHIT. Pretty simple.

Making any law that prosecutes the actual victim, in this case the store owner, is a de facto protection for criminals. Newsflash. Laws do not stop crime, but you.can bet your ass if the common mentality was thieves get shot, even in the back, there would be a lot less stealing.

 

[Reptile]

I don't think he was in fear of his life.

I don't think you can use lethal force in FL to protect property.

The store owner will be going to prison for a while. I would bet on it.

I don't feel sorry for the thief though.

 

[Asaltweapon]

Store owner is going to pay a lot more than 20.00 in legal bills.
Standing your ground on such a item would not be my choice but who the hell am I.

 

[lowbuckbob]

"Your Honor, the suspect made a furtive movement with his right hand and I believed he was reaching for the hatchet that he stole. I was in fear for my life and discharged my lawfully possessed firearm."

YMMV

 

[AHM]

Fox13: It is unclear in the video if the object is the hatchet that Lopez is suspected of trying to steal because the business' front door obstructs his hand.

Fake news.

The perp. is obviously carrying something hatchet-sized in the video.

If

they found the hatchet on the ground - not in the perp's pants,​

and

nothing else hatched-sized was on the ground at the scene,​

then

the object being carried was obviously the hatchet.​

 

[kevin9]

Not a good shoot, but little sympathy for the thief either.
I do think the Hudud punishment for this crime might be particularly apropos in this case

 

[jaypap]

Thats why you should be able to cut the hands off of thieves and cut the penis off of rapists. There is just not enough to to detour criminals in this country.

 

[Frizzle Fry]

He appears to have the hatchet in his hand, having pulled it out of his pants before opening the door.

Let's say someone steals your firearm, has it in his hand - do you pull your backup? Shoot him? A weapon is a weapon.

 

[Kicker96FS]

Whatever he stole, whatever the value, he stole, end of story and the store owner is probably fed up with watching shoplifters walk/run out of his store with his merchandise. Plus it's FL., so enough said.

 

[StevieP]

I'm with most of you guys. Thieves suck, and I feel very little sympathy for him. Homelessness is no justification for stealing things. I also somewhat agree that thieves need to be disincentivized from stealing. The thought they might get shot is a strong disincentive. Certainly more than a slap on the wrist they'd get from the police.

That said, no way is this a justifiable shooting. If the thief had turned and swung the hatchet, sure. But from what I can see he was just trying to get away. The shop owner wasn't (shouldn't have been) in fear for his life. As such, bad shoot.

 

[Frizzle Fry]

For the record, what's not shown in the selective media outrage clip here is that the thief appears to have taken a swing at the store owner before getting to the door, and possibly before the store owner drew his gun.

The store owner stands in front of the door, the thief comes into the edge of the field of view, moves his body in a twisting motion, with one hand out in the field of view (the hatchet isn't in sight, but is later shown in the other hand) and the store owner seems to ward off something with his non-dominant hand while taking a big step back, reaching down/back/forward with his dominant hand (watch the shoulder movement; his shirt bunches, and his shoulder raises above his neck). Seems like his hand was at the ready until this point.

Also you can very clearly see the hatchet in the hand of the thief as he opens the door, and on the ground after he goes down. It seems pretty likely that the hatchet was in his hand for the entirety of the roughly 20 seconds of action in the 1 minute clip - it certainly is from the time his body enters the camera shot. With that said, the shopkeeper clearly holds on to the guy as he's headed out the door, by his shirt and arm.

Unfortunately it's a terrible angle and fairly low resolution.

So does that change anything in anyone's eyes? If the guy took a swing first, or was merely moving towards the shopkeeper, hatchet in hand, when the shopkeeper drew down?






















This whole two-step forward-background thing is what confuses me; not legally, it's pretty clear under law in most places, but I mean conceptually.

You take a person who has a weapon and has just committed a crime. Are they stepping towards you, or away? Have they already assaulted you? Who's to say that they won't do it again, after they step away? The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior; if someone just attacked you, the fact that they're moving away from you SLIGHTLY doesn't mean they're not coming back to attack you again - the threat is continued, and anything but neutralized. Let's say somebody hits you and knocks you to the ground - like that other recent Florida case - they seem to be stepping away, a foot or two, but why? To get a knife, hatchet, bat, or gun out of their car? To regroup and catch their breath before kicking you while you're down? Would it be unreasonable in those circumstances to think that your life may be at risk, continued risk?

Take a person drawing a firearm; a step-back-quick-draw is common, and may even be seen in this video; it's certainly not a retreat or the end of a confrontation but an initiation or escalation of force. If you know the Tueller dillema (some people call this the 21 foot rule or Tueller rule) you know that a person with an edged weapon in hand can get a fairly good jump on a person with a holstered pistol even if they're not already in motion.

 

[Uzi2]

The news clip is so fvcking edited its worthless as to what actually went on.

If the guy had hatchet in hand walking out and turned toward the shop keeper, then its a good shoot. Again, the initial video in the original post is edited for anti gun public consumption.

 

[MaverickNH]

Nation of Cowards A Nation of Cowards

Seriously, we seem to be willing to lower the bar for honesty to perilously low levels to cut taxes paid for law enforcement and prisons to the point where... I run out of words.

 

[Jason m]

The court of public opinion already has the store owner hanging from a pole.
So good or bad shot he is condemned by the same crowd that always comes out guilty until proven innocent, we just went threw 3 weeks of this crap with Justice Kav.

Jason

 

[ccm75]

Guy is screwed. Should have shut off camera and put hatchet in perps hand...

 

[E.Stoner]

Sorry shoplifting is shitty and this guy was being a dick, but that is not a justification for lethal force.
If it was armed robbery, blast away.
Could have been a confrontation or altercation before the video starts but it looks like the thief was just trying to leave. Looks like a murder.
The shooter's life does not appear to be in danger. Also what kind of moron starts grappling with someone when they have a gun drawn, that seems like a good way of having someone disarm you and use your own weapon against you.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

He held on to the guy and once he got free he shot him. At that point where is the threat?