Ever wonder...

SKS Ray

SKS Ray

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Ever wonder where your milsurps have been and what they've been through? I ordered an RC dou K98 today and thought about the whole Russian Capture thing and began wondering about how they ended up with the rifle. I just ordered it this morning and already can't wait for it to get here. (could be another pumkin shoot bring along btw[smile] ) I know lots of these RC rifles are battle field pick ups. Creepy to think this rifle I'm getting could have been lying there for days, tightly clutched in the hands of a dead German soldier.[shocked]
Then I started thinking about some of my other rifles like my SVT40. I wondered if the Russian soldier who carried it was a good shot, how many people he or she may have killed with it, or if it even saw combat at all. [thinking]
Lots of my rifles are refurbs, never issued or in mint condition, but I have plenty that are almost 100 years old and even though they look great, you just know they saw action because of the average wear on them. I think the Where has it been and what has it been through? factor is one of the main reasons I love collecting and shooting them.
 
Yes I have, which is one of the reasons I like old rifles. Most of mine are rearsenalled, so I have no idea of where they have been or what they might have done. My Schmidt Rubin is probably in original condition, but I know that it hasn't been involved in any war. The M38 probably was, since it's been rearsenalled and the crown in counter bored.

The one that I know travelled and saw action is the No4 Mk1. It's no show piece even after I cleaned it up. A little rust on the magazine, but other than that it's clean but worn. As I posted a while ago, it failed the NO GO headspace gauge test, so I replaced the bolt head. Other than that, it appears all original and shows lots of wear. If that rifle could talk...

Gary
 
Ever wonder if a Gerry used a K-98 on someones grandfather that you know? or maybe as a murder weapon in a concentration camp. I'd rather not think about it.
 
Savage110FP said:
Ever wonder if a Gerry used a K-98 on someones grandfather that you know? or maybe as a murder weapon in a concentration camp. I'd rather not think about it.
Click to expand...

Maybe that's why I have no interest in German weapons. Not that much in Russian ones either except that they are rugged and are cheap to shoot. The M-N will likely remain that way, although ammo for the SKS is getting very expensive.

Gary
 
I recently bought 2 Mosins to Richie's in Westport to sell. He flat out didn't want them and didn't mind the Finn M39 but practically refused any coment on the Chinese Mosin except to say... "Do you know how many of those things I had shot at me in Vietnam?!?!?". I shrugged my shoulders and asked if I could put them up on consignment there and he said ok.
I've read numerous posts on other forums about Nazi marked weapons, especially from Jewish gun owners. Some won't have anything to do with them, some collect them and think of it as a "Hah in yer face! Its mine now!" kinda attitude, and some consider it just a tool of battle in the hands of a soldier. Some people won't even touch Japanese rifles because of the same reasons. I can understand the mixed feelings some collectors may have towards weapons from a certain military organization, but like most I consider it just a tool in the hands of a soldier sent to fight.
Whether it was held by an evil and hate filled enemy soldier, or a home grown hero's battle rifle, if its in good shape and shoots well, I'll put it in my safe.[grin]
 
When I got my Garands I thought it was pretty cool with the history. When I got my BNZ44 K98 Mauser with the Rune and I found out what it represented, it was strange to hold it. I couldn't help but think of the Concentration Camp prisoners who may have handled it.
 
Milsurps 4 Me said:
I've read numerous posts on other forums about Nazi marked weapons, especially from Jewish gun owners. Some won't have anything to do with them, some collect them and think of it as a "Hah in yer face! Its mine now!" kinda attitude, and some consider it just a tool of battle in the hands of a soldier. Some people won't even touch Japanese rifles because of the same reasons.
Click to expand...

I used to have the former attitude towards Nazi weapons, but after shooting cfriend's Nazi-marked Walther and talking to that old dealer from NJ who was at the Marlboro show some months ago, I have more of the latter attitude... They're dead and their "thousand-year-Reich" is on the garbage dump of history. They're no more than a particularly repulsive footnote in history. And I was shooting the gun that they have no more use for, todah! (todah is Hebrew for "thank you!")

As for Japanese weapons... I was under the impression that their firearms were pretty much junk. Their swords, now... I'd love a good katana. Or wakizashi. Or tanto.
 
Ya know, reading these replies, I'm reminded of a story I read on another forum about a rifle that someone had that definitely told a story. I'll search for it later and if I find it I'll cut and paste or post a direct link.
I'm sure most of you have heard about rifles with blood pitting, damaged stocks from bullet holes, and many other battle scars. I remember a story about a rifle a guy had that was in the hands of a burned soldier. I think it was an Arisaka Japanese rifle. According to the owner, the rifle had finger marks where a soldier clutching it was burned by a flamethrower. The stock was charred but not destroyed, and there were easily indentifiable finger markes where the wood was protected. There were a few pictures along with the post. I'm gonna go see if I can find it now.[hmmm]
 
Dwarven -

Do some research on Japanese rifles - they are far from junk. After the war a number of tests were conducted on the various weapons used by the countries involved. The Arisaka was found to have one of the (if not THE) strongest actions tested.

The reputation for poor quality comes from the fact that towards the end of the war, the Japanese were running out of materials big-time, and had to conserve as much as possible. These "last ditch" models had time/material saving features such as wooden butt plates and a reduced amount of mill work.

Also, after the war, many GI's tried to fire .30-06 rounds through the 7.7 Arisaka T99's, and screwed up the guns. Although the rounds are close in dimensions, there is quite a difference in chamber pressure. Of course, after they used the wrong ammo and destroyed the guns, they declared the Jap gun a "piece of junk."
 
Ah... I see. And what about the Type 14 handguns? And how does one make sure that the Type 99 one gets is not a late model?

BTW, Ken... the "1" is NOT silent - it's pronounced "dwarven one". [wink]
 
D - 1:

A great reference is "Military Rifles of Japan" by Honeycutt. He goes into all the variations, markings, history, etc.

The late, "last ditch" rifles are fairly easy to spot. For example, the cocking knob on the bolt of early rifles has a nice milled pattern. The late rifles just have a welded "blob" of metal to hold the knob on. You can usually see very obvious milling marks on the stocks, making them look more hand-finished then done by machine. At one point, they even ran out of leather slings, and resorted to drilling a hole through the stock and using a piece of rope!

The early series rifles (say, before 1943) were very well-crafted and fine collector's pieces. The Type 38 (long rifle - adopted in 1905) fired a 6.5 mm round, but after their experiences in fighting the Chinese, the Japanese government went to a rifle in 1939 designed for a larger (7.7 mm) round - the Type 99. There were also carbine variations, and a paratrooper model that you could disassemble at the chamber and carry in two pieces. That one in particular is often found on the auction boards for $1500 to $2000.

Ask a veteran of the War in the Pacific if Japanese rifles were accurate or not!

As for the Nambu - not my bag, man. I'm just a milsurp rifle guy.

KK
 
My first RC K98 came with 2 fingertip sized indentations on left side of the handguard and a piece of metal embedded on the right side just above the bottom mag plate. Makes one wonder just what kind of action it saw and what might have happened to at least one of its users !!

regards....roger
 
milsurps...i started collecting military rifles after seeing enemy at the gates...i started out with a mosin...then an sks...then another...and another and i became obsessed with all milsurp rifles...it was all i bought...ive shot maybe 3 of the 23 i own...i bought them simply for the "story"...none of my rifles have a history i know about but to think of where they could have been is amazing...my 1903a3 could have been on the beaches of normandy...my sks could have been in the hands of a vietcong...etc etc...

i know alot of people who have mixed feelings about these weapons due to the fact of their history and what and where they were used for...a friend on another forum collects all US surplus guns but refuses to ever touch anything else...he says in vietnam he was on the opposite end of too many sks's, mosins, k98s and ak's to want to even see anymore

a member on another forum has a garand that has teeth marks in the butt stock...gives a whole new meaning to the proverbial "biting the bullet"
 
Guy I used to work for has an SKS (I think it's an SKS... never saw it, only got it described to me) that he brought back from Vietnam. He calls it his "gook rifle". To this day he hates anything and anyone Asian. But he will go out for Chinese food. [smile]
 
dwarven1 said:
Guy I used to work for has an SKS (I think it's an SKS... never saw it, only got it described to me) that he brought back from Vietnam. He calls it his "gook rifle". To this day he hates anything and anyone Asian. But he will go out for Chinese food. [smile]
Click to expand...

Does he wanna sell it? [grin]
 
I've settled in on SKS rifles as my main collectable. If it doesn't have a shot out bore and is really a bring back with no Norinco markings or other import stamps, I'm definitely interested.
 
Milsurps 4 Me said:
...I've read numerous posts on other forums about Nazi marked weapons, especially from Jewish gun owners. Some won't have anything to do with them, some collect them and think of it as a "Hah in yer face! Its mine now!" kinda attitude, and some consider it just a tool of battle in the hands of a soldier....
Click to expand...

Yet many Jewish people have no problem driving Mercedes, Audi, Porsche, VW, cars.
 
Coyote33 said:
Yet many Jewish people have no problem driving Mercedes, Audi, Porsche, VW, cars.
Click to expand...

Or riding BMW's...

My mom told me that she expected my new Beemer to "goose-step out of the garage". When I pointed out to her that she was driving a Jap car she had no answer for it.

My somewhat more serious response is that BMW is not now owned by Nazis... and I handed $4150 to the guys at Northern Valley BMW... none of whom were German, or Nazis, either.

Carl's Walther, OTOH, does have a Nazi proofmark on it. See earlier comment about the trash heap of history. [we need a "gloating" emoticon...] *gloat*
 
Milsurps 4 Me said:
Does he wanna sell it? [grin]
Click to expand...

I quote:
Hi Ross,
It is an SKS and its one of the few collections I have from Vietnam so I am not selling it.
Thanks anyway,
Dave
Click to expand...
I worked for Dave for three years, so I was pretty sure what he was going to say.

I'll try to get him on NES, though, so maybe he can come to a shoot with it. [smile] You can drool over it if he does bring it to a shoot. [devil]
 

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