Empty holster social experiment question

[Mattitude]

I have a question for the ones here that have more experience with MA law than myself. What trouble, if any, would I be in if I just wore an empty holster on my belt? I'm sure there would be strange stares or even maybe even called an idiot or something along those lines but is there anything on the books that could land me in some trouble? This is more of a social experiment for me as even open carry here in NC doesn't really get a second look from anyone. I'll be up in MA later this month and it was something that I was possibly thinking of doing.

 

[GLOCK.Perfection]

technically, there would be nothing wrong with that.

The better question is why?

 

[MMF]

Yah im going with.........this sounds dumb

 

[Mattitude]

Why not? Social attitudes "up north" are much different than down here. Because you are so used to getting "beat up" with gun laws and pretty much being told that guns are bad and should be kept under wraps seems to slowly brainwash even the gun owners. Most don't even care if people open carry here (except in the major cities) and I would like to know if the sight of even an empty holster causes a reaction. As far as this "...sounding dumb", a good number of Virginia Tech students wore empty holsters on campus to protest against their school being a gun free zone. Now I don't recall anyone here calling these VT students "dumb" or "stupid"...so why would you look at this any differently???

 

[MMF]

Well if your trying to protest, go for it then.....but why dont you try to open carry in Mass since its technically legal, if protesting is what your trying to do.

 

[GLOCK.Perfection]

Well if your trying to protest, go for it then.....but why dont you try to open carry in Mass since its technically legal, if protesting is what your trying to do.

o boy

 

[GSG]

Well if your trying to protest, go for it then.....but why dont you try to open carry in Mass since its technically legal, if protesting is what your trying to do.

Well if you really want to get your non-res. LTC revoked, that's a sure way to get it done.

 

[WeedWhacker]

A few months ago I saw a guy at the PO who was in 5.1 pants and a black polo, 2 loaded mags on his belt and a OWB holster..

We started chatting about guns and open carry. We started with a good conversation.

Come to find out he was "ON DUTY" as a brink security guard. However a few things were stated by him when he is "on duty" wearing his 5.1 pants and black polo with a brinks logo.... He never gets questioned at all, in fact I was the only person ever to strike up a conversation based on his OC.

Some other things came up.. He didnt feel that citizens should have firearms and he would most likely call the police if he saw an OC.

So I asked him "if we lived in the same neighborhood and you saw me walking my dogs while OC. You would call the police. And he responded YES.. And started to inform me that I needed a license in MA etc etc etc...

I asked WHY, what would I be doing that would warrant a call to the police... He replied you are carrying a gun........ we talked briefly about OK so I have a gun..

He had his opinion.... I had mine..

Conversation pretty much ended shortly after that...

 

[Mattitude]

Well for one thing is that I am not a MA resident, another thing is that is not my point. This is a social experiment, NOT a protest. I would like to know what reaction a piece of plastic or leather gets from everyone, and so far it appears that even gun owners are pushed so far underground that they seem ashamed of being a gun owner. I bet some here would be afraid to leave their front door or window open when they are cleaning their guns for fear that their neighbor might see them. Is being a gun owner wrong?

Well if your trying to protest, go for it then.....but why dont you try to open carry in Mass since its technically legal, if protesting is what your trying to do.

 

[Mattitude]

That is a very interesting story and really shows the social attude of private gun ownership. Is it because it has been driven so "underground" that it is nearly invisible?? So when no one sees it on a regular basis, when it is viewed it is feared??? This security guard seems to have a very high and mighty opinion of himself and the police. This man is no different than anyone else except he has a badge or something. I bet he goes home to a family and puts his pants on one leg at a time. The police are nothing more than public servants and really no different than a regular "civilian" except for a uniform and a badge. Training isn't an issue as I bet MA gun owners receive close to the same safety training but I'm sure that civilians have more trigger time than the average police man.

A few months ago I saw a guy at the PO who was in 5.1 pants and a black polo, 2 loaded mags on his belt and a OWB holster..

We started chatting about guns and open carry. We started with a good conversation.

Come to find out he was "ON DUTY" as a brink security guard. However a few things were stated by him when he is "on duty" wearing his 5.1 pants and black polo with a brinks logo.... He never gets questioned at all, in fact I was the only person ever to strike up a conversation based on his OC.

Some other things came up.. He didnt feel that citizens should have firearms and he would most likely call the police if he saw an OC.

So I asked him "if we lived in the same neighborhood and you saw me walking my dogs while OC. You would call the police. And he responded YES.. And started to inform me that I needed a license in MA etc etc etc...

I asked WHY, what would I be doing that would warrant a call to the police... He replied you are carrying a gun........ we talked briefly about OK so I have a gun..

He had his opinion.... I had mine..

Conversation pretty much ended shortly after that...

 

[WeedWhacker]

Some other thoughts I have heard recently from friends and family and its interesting as I have heard the SAME comment 3 times from people.

"You have a gun, isn't that illegal..."


Even though my education is only recent on firearms in mass, I would like to believe that before my education period I strongly doubt I would "call the police" or "fear" an OC. I think if noticed I may have "walked on the other side of the street" So i can somewhat understand some people reactions to something which is very rarely scene in Mass other than LEO. However education I think is the primary reason for "fear". I dont see "gun ads" in newspapers, if I recall correctly "guns and ammo" magazines are hidden next to the playboys....

Also store fronts, while in Mass there a are a few "prominate" displays for gun shops Blue Northen comes to mind in my local... HOWEVER NH every place I have been to NO DOUBT there are guns for sale.. Stateline in Mason NH with the BIG OLD Red White and Blue flag with GUNS on it on the road frontage just makes a BIG statement... FS GUNS if you were just driving by how would you know, granted I'm sure they have a sign limitation however its common I would say. IMO

That is a very interesting story and really shows the social attude of private gun ownership. Is it because it has been driven so "underground" that it is nearly invisible?? So when no one sees it on a regular basis, when it is viewed it is feared???

 

[Mattitude]

I think I can understand why MA citizens feel this way towards guns...in MA firearm ownership is a "privilage" whereas in NC it is a "right." How do I come to that? Well, from my understanding a MA resident MUST get permission from the local police chief for a FID, Class A, Class B, or what ever else to own anything from a shotgun to a high capacity pistol (and carry CCW). Please correct me if I am wrong as I am NOT a MA resident. Does an individual have to physically see the police chief for an interview to prove "fitness" to own a firearm? Is it up to the police chief ultimately if that citizen will own or even carry a firearm?? If that is so, then it is a "privilage" to own a firearm.

NC is a "shall issue" state, meaning that I have a right to purchase an carry a firearm UNLESS there is something legally preventing me from doing so. When I applied for my CCW, all I did was fill out an application which is basically a backround check and pay my fee. I didn't have to get an appointment to see my sheriff and it doesn't matter if he doesn't like me, how I dress, how I talk or how I smell...he can't deny me my CCW based on any opinion he has about me or even what my neighbors think. I don't need a card to show a salesman at a gunshop that I am elgible to buy a .22 rifle or even ammo. NC is a non-registration state. There is no "FA-10" to transfer anything. That's garbage.

MA has gun owners so under its thumb...AND YOU ACCEPT IT!!! You piss away your rights down to privilages and you start to take on the attitudes of the citizenry around you. God, how dare I for even thinking about wearing an empty holster...I must be some kind of idiot. What?? My neighbor just saw me go into my own home with a gun slung over my shoulder??? The UPS guy rang my doorbell while I was cleaning my scary black rifle and he freaked out when he saw it while I signed for my package. So he calls the cops because he's scared of what you have in your own house and you say...I'm sorry you saw my scary rifle while the police chief finds you unfit for your LTC. Please correct me if I'm wrong or even getting extreme.

I read these examples here on this site and the other member's reactions. I was stunned at the responses, calling the gun owners "irresponsible"...for doing what??? These are the social attitudes that is killing MA and the sad thing is that a good number of people AGREE with them. If I can get a reaction like that from a piece of plastic/leather then I really can't imagine the deep down fear that MA citizens have. I would say I'm speechless...but I did write quite a bit here.

Some other thoughts I have heard recently from friends and family and its interesting as I have heard the SAME comment 3 times from people.

"You have a gun, isn't that illegal..."

 

[Kicker96FS]

I like the idea of an empty holster, it will make them wonder where it is.(the gun)

 

[Cross-X]

Well if your trying to protest, go for it then.....but why dont you try to open carry in Mass since its technically legal, if protesting is what your trying to do.

Any statutory support for your proposition?

 

[livefreeorhere]

Any statutory support for your proposition?

Does this require a statute? isn't it covered by the 2nd amendment?

 

[pbearperry]

A few months ago I saw a guy at the PO who was in 5.1 pants and a black polo, 2 loaded mags on his belt and a OWB holster..

We started chatting about guns and open carry. We started with a good conversation.

Come to find out he was "ON DUTY" as a brink security guard. However a few things were stated by him when he is "on duty" wearing his 5.1 pants and black polo with a brinks logo.... He never gets questioned at all, in fact I was the only person ever to strike up a conversation based on his OC.

Some other things came up.. He didnt feel that citizens should have firearms and he would most likely call the police if he saw an OC.

So I asked him "if we lived in the same neighborhood and you saw me walking my dogs while OC. You would call the police. And he responded YES.. And started to inform me that I needed a license in MA etc etc etc...

I asked WHY, what would I be doing that would warrant a call to the police... He replied you are carrying a gun........ we talked briefly about OK so I have a gun..

He had his opinion.... I had mine..

Conversation pretty much ended shortly after that...

Only Cops,military,and Brinks guys should own guns.How bout Mall Ninjas?

 

[JRyan]

I think I can understand why MA citizens feel this way towards guns...in MA firearm ownership is a "privilage" whereas in NC it is a "right." How do I come to that? Well, from my understanding a MA resident MUST get permission from the local police chief for a FID, Class A, Class B, or what ever else to own anything from a shotgun to a high capacity pistol (and carry CCW). Please correct me if I am wrong as I am NOT a MA resident. Does an individual have to physically see the police chief for an interview to prove "fitness" to own a firearm? Is it up to the police chief ultimately if that citizen will own or even carry a firearm?? If that is so, then it is a "privilage" to own a firearm.

NC is a "shall issue" state, meaning that I have a right to purchase an carry a firearm UNLESS there is something legally preventing me from doing so. When I applied for my CCW, all I did was fill out an application which is basically a backround check and pay my fee. I didn't have to get an appointment to see my sheriff and it doesn't matter if he doesn't like me, how I dress, how I talk or how I smell...he can't deny me my CCW based on any opinion he has about me or even what my neighbors think. I don't need a card to show a salesman at a gunshop that I am elgible to buy a .22 rifle or even ammo. NC is a non-registration state. There is no "FA-10" to transfer anything. That's garbage.

MA has gun owners so under its thumb...AND YOU ACCEPT IT!!! You piss away your rights down to privilages and you start to take on the attitudes of the citizenry around you. God, how dare I for even thinking about wearing an empty holster...I must be some kind of idiot. What?? My neighbor just saw me go into my own home with a gun slung over my shoulder??? The UPS guy rang my doorbell while I was cleaning my scary black rifle and he freaked out when he saw it while I signed for my package. So he calls the cops because he's scared of what you have in your own house and you say...I'm sorry you saw my scary rifle while the police chief finds you unfit for your LTC. Please correct me if I'm wrong or even getting extreme.

I read these examples here on this site and the other member's reactions. I was stunned at the responses, calling the gun owners "irresponsible"...for doing what??? These are the social attitudes that is killing MA and the sad thing is that a good number of people AGREE with them. If I can get a reaction like that from a piece of plastic/leather then I really can't imagine the deep down fear that MA citizens have. I would say I'm speechless...but I did write quite a bit here.

We don't accept it, at least a lot of us don't. There is a line between going all out and losing your LTC though, so protests must be thought out carefully.

Your pretty much dead on with your description of this place, but for that one part.

 

[rcinma]

I think I can understand why MA citizens feel this way towards guns...in MA firearm ownership is a "privilage" whereas in NC it is a "right." How do I come to that? Well, from my understanding a MA resident MUST get permission from the local police chief for a FID, Class A, Class B, or what ever else to own anything from a shotgun to a high capacity pistol (and carry CCW). Please correct me if I am wrong as I am NOT a MA resident. Does an individual have to physically see the police chief for an interview to prove "fitness" to own a firearm? Is it up to the police chief ultimately if that citizen will own or even carry a firearm?? If that is so, then it is a "privilage" to own a firearm.

NC is a "shall issue" state, meaning that I have a right to purchase an carry a firearm UNLESS there is something legally preventing me from doing so. When I applied for my CCW, all I did was fill out an application which is basically a backround check and pay my fee. I didn't have to get an appointment to see my sheriff and it doesn't matter if he doesn't like me, how I dress, how I talk or how I smell...he can't deny me my CCW based on any opinion he has about me or even what my neighbors think. I don't need a card to show a salesman at a gunshop that I am elgible to buy a .22 rifle or even ammo. NC is a non-registration state. There is no "FA-10" to transfer anything. That's garbage.

MA has gun owners so under its thumb...AND YOU ACCEPT IT!!! You piss away your rights down to privilages and you start to take on the attitudes of the citizenry around you. God, how dare I for even thinking about wearing an empty holster...I must be some kind of idiot. What?? My neighbor just saw me go into my own home with a gun slung over my shoulder??? The UPS guy rang my doorbell while I was cleaning my scary black rifle and he freaked out when he saw it while I signed for my package. So he calls the cops because he's scared of what you have in your own house and you say...I'm sorry you saw my scary rifle while the police chief finds you unfit for your LTC. Please correct me if I'm wrong or even getting extreme.

I read these examples here on this site and the other member's reactions. I was stunned at the responses, calling the gun owners "irresponsible"...for doing what??? These are the social attitudes that is killing MA and the sad thing is that a good number of people AGREE with them. If I can get a reaction like that from a piece of plastic/leather then I really can't imagine the deep down fear that MA citizens have. I would say I'm speechless...but I did write quite a bit here.

In Mass you cannot even own a handgun without an LTC, and that license is controlled and can be revoked at the issuing Chiefs discretion. If we lose our LTC we lose the right to even own the guns we already have.

I believe this pushes us gun owners into the shadows because we basiclly don't want to draw attention to ourselves (even if we are not doing anything illegal).

There are too many anti-gun moonbats in this state that will shit kittens if they just see a gun and are likely to make a stink over nothing.

Who needs that kind of hassle? You want to make a point about your rights in this state and you are more likely to lose them than get anything changed.

 

[Mattitude]

Unless gun owners are doing something to get their rights back then they accept their situation. Throwing your pocket change at an organization to "let them handle it" doesn't remove your own personal responsibility. Nothing changes overnight. People should have to fear their police chief of taking away their "privlige" to own firearms, because it is no longer your right. Possibly losing your LTC for wearing an empty holster (if I am understanding you correctly...if it could possibly happen) really shows your fear for your police chief. To really think about it is silly and insane. Does a holster really symbolize something so sinister??

I would think it could be used as a conversation starter. I'm sure there will be people who say "what the hell do you think you are doing??" and "do you have a gun??" It is a way to talk about firearm ownership without actually posessing a firearm.

Has anyone here volunteered for the boy scouts/girl scouts to promote our heritage? Does Eddie Eagle still go to schools? Don't accept your situation in MA. Get past the denial and think about what you yourself can do about it. Giving money to an organization is a very small part of what you can do, but you have to do more than just that.

Are the local police chiefs elected or do they actually go through the LE ranks? Here in NC the sheriff is an elected official and doesn't even have to know one thing about law enforcement.

We don't accept it, at least a lot of us don't. There is a line between going all out and losing your LTC though, so protests must be thought out carefully.

Your pretty much dead on with your description of this place, but for that one part.

 

[Mattitude]

From what you said here I still see denial about actual rights...because you don't have any firearm rights. If your chief can take away your LTC for any reason at will then it is a privilge. You lost your rights a long time ago and because your fear not only your chief but your neighbors and fellow residents that you do nothing and accept pissing away what little priviges you have.

Being pushed into the shadows really tells me that you are so fearful of everyone. You are ashamed of being a gun owner. I'm sure if guns come up at work you keep your mouth shut because you don't want anyone to think you are a crazy person. I'm willing to bet there are a lot of other MA residents here that are the same way. I don't know why gun owners can't be as passionate as say...a classic car collector or a fisherman. As long as you don't even talk about gun ownership much less promote it then it will never come out of the shadows and quite possibly disappear all together.

You have no gun rights. Until you (and the others) get over that denial nothing will ever change except for losing more of what you already don't have.

In Mass you cannot even own a handgun without an LTC, and that license is controlled and can be revoked at the issuing Chiefs discretion. If we lose our LTC we lose the right to even own the guns we already have.

I believe this pushes us gun owners into the shadows because we basiclly don't want to draw attention to ourselves (even if we are not doing anything illegal).

There are too many anti-gun moonbats in this state that will shit kittens if they just see a gun and are likely to make a stink over nothing.

Who needs that kind of hassle? You want to make a point about your rights in this state and you are more likely to lose them than get anything changed.

 

[drgrant]

From what you said here I still see denial about actual rights...because you don't have any firearm rights. If your chief can take away your LTC for any reason at will then it is a privilge. You lost your rights a long time ago and because your fear not only your chief but your neighbors and fellow residents that you do nothing and accept pissing away what little priviges you have.

Yes, in MA we don't have any rights. However, some of us have to live in this state and live under this system. It is what it is. I don't see it changing in any dramatic fashion any time soon. As a block we don't even have the numbers to do it, even if the entire block of lawful gun owners in MA voted properly. (although I can't say that would hurt anything, either.... )

Let's put it this way... who, pragmatically speaking, is more "free"... the guy that can discreetly owns guns in this dump of a communist state, and still can legally carry one on his person, or the guy that loses his license (and guns) due to a suitability denial resulting from an act of civil disobedience? Process that for a minute.

In MA there's a whole cost/benefit thing in play that you probably have not taken into account. It's easy to say what you're saying when your guns and ability to legally carry aren't being threatened on a daily basis. Most states have due process for gun related issues. MA does not, at least not
on the front end.

FWIW I don't see a problem legally with carrying an empty holster. To be honest though, I really don't see dialogue from that going anywhere. Most people in MA, especially the hearts and minds of the moonbats you're trying to change, wouldn't even know what it is unless a gun was in it. MA as a state probably has the lowest per capita gun ownership rate in the northeast, and is probably one of the lowest in the entire nation. The environment in MA politically for this sort of thing isn't a far cry from being in some foreign communist country. As a close friend of mine once said... "Wow... is MA really in the US? You could have fooled me. "

There are ways to try to chisel away at the system in MA, but those doing so have to be pragmatic and methodical about it.

-Mike

 

[Ultimate]

Any statutory support for your proposition?

Its "technically" legal to OC in MA because there is nothing specifically forbidding such action in the MGL's.

 

[Mattitude]

Mike, excellent post and thank you for doing so. There were only a few participants in the Heller case yet they changed the laws of DC that most thought were unchangable. Are they heroes? Do you think that other DC gun owners said that not only what they were trying to do would NEVER work but would most likely make things worse? I bet very few were behind them, but it was those few that changed the laws of so many.

Saying "it is what it is" pretty much shows that you accept what ever they give you and are unwilling to fight for your basic rights. I don't see how wearing an empty holster is civil disobedience. VT students did it in the face of public opinion that guns should never be on a school campus. Are they fools/idiots or heroes for wanting their rights of self protection expanded?

I'm sure that the majority of the MA population won't know what a pistol holster is, but I'm sure people will ask "what's that?" and there is where it goes from. It is possible that a few others might see and do the same thing. Now the original post is I want to make sure that I won't be breaking any MA crazy law against wearing an empty holster in plain view. Hell, I might even clip my cell phone inside it. Any MA resident who is scared of being arrested/losing their LTC for wearing an EMPTY HOLSTER shows their deep fear of their police chief. If said resident belongs to a group that has a legal defense team and that team won't take a case where that person got arrested/lost their LTC/lost their priviges then it is time to find another group. If they think they can't not only win the case but slam dunk it, then there are big problems with the attitudes of those gun owners & gun groups. That should be the easiest way to make a hell of a lot of money for said group as well as the resident.

I'm wondering why it hasn't been mentioned why a NC resident gives a damn about MA gun laws. Believe it or not but I do have a dog in the fight. My family owns land & a cabin in Sandisfield and I find it asinine that I cannot take even a .22 rifle up to my family cabin and do some shooting. I can't even bring ammo to give to my father from what I understand. Why do I have to lose my rights at the MA border? My truck is prefectly legal even though it is registered in NC, why not my firearms? A driver's license is a privilge but gun ownership is a right. Is there a lawyer/gun group with the stones willing to take this on???

I don't understand why MA gun owners are content with their situation and are afraid to do a damn thing about it. When your privliges go away who are you going to blame it on?

Yes, in MA we don't have any rights. However, some of us have to live in this state and live under this system. It is what it is. I don't see it changing in any dramatic fashion any time soon. As a block we don't even have the numbers to do it, even if the entire block of lawful gun owners in MA voted properly. (although I can't say that would hurt anything, either.... )

Let's put it this way... who, pragmatically speaking, is more "free"... the guy that can discreetly owns guns in this dump of a communist state, and still can legally carry one on his person, or the guy that loses his license (and guns) due to a suitability denial resulting from an act of civil disobedience? Process that for a minute.

In MA there's a whole cost/benefit thing in play that you probably have not taken into account. It's easy to say what you're saying when your guns and ability to legally carry aren't being threatened on a daily basis. Most states have due process for gun related issues. MA does not, at least not
on the front end.

FWIW I don't see a problem legally with carrying an empty holster. To be honest though, I really don't see dialogue from that going anywhere. Most people in MA, especially the hearts and minds of the moonbats you're trying to change, wouldn't even know what it is unless a gun was in it. MA as a state probably has the lowest per capita gun ownership rate in the northeast, and is probably one of the lowest in the entire nation. The environment in MA politically for this sort of thing isn't a far cry from being in some foreign communist country. As a close friend of mine once said... "Wow... is MA really in the US? You could have fooled me. "

There are ways to try to chisel away at the system in MA, but those doing so have to be pragmatic and methodical about it.

-Mike

 

[jdubois]

Mattitude, this is a good discussion, thanks for bringing it up!

My family owns land & a cabin in Sandisfield and I find it asinine that I cannot take even a .22 rifle up to my family cabin and do some shooting. I can't even bring ammo to give to my father from what I understand.

On this particular point, as a non-resident, you can indeed bring your .22 rifle and ammo into MA to shoot as long as you don't have any large capacity magazines and you meet the requirements for such in your resident state. (C 140 § 129C (g), (h) & (p))

 

[rcinma]

Mattitude, this is a good discussion, thanks for bringing it up!

On this particular point, as a non-resident, you can indeed bring your .22 rifle and ammo into MA to shoot as long as you don't have any large capacity magazines and you meet the requirements for such in your resident state. (C 140 § 129C (g), (h) & (p))

You can also apply for a non-resident LTC and jump through all the hoops we do as law abiding gun owners in this state.

I understand some of your point, but in the end you can make all the noise you want and accuse us all of being weak but you are just on vacation when you come her, you don't have to live with these people (liberal moonbats) everyday.

There is a time to talk and there is a time to keep your mouth shut, I for one don't see the advantage in drawing attention to myself.

I lived in the free states of PA and NH for awhile and as I gun owner it was great. But as far as earning a living and seeing my family it sucked so I chose to move back back and jumped through the hoops all over again.

As for the empty holster protest, put some flowers in it and walk around Cambridge or Brookline - maybe you'll start a movement with the hippy fruits that live there.

 

[drgrant]

I bet very few were behind them, but it was those few that changed the laws of so many.

The guys running Heller vs DC had a lot of money, and they also had a
case which had a lot of legal merit. They had a wedge and they used
it. MA is not so easy at the state level. It starts with the fact that
the SJC has basically stated that the 2nd in the state constitution means
nothing and goes downhill from there.

Saying "it is what it is" pretty much shows that you accept what ever they give you and are unwilling to fight for your basic rights.

You could say that, but I'd rather say that I'm a realist. The demographics of this state don't support a sea change in gun laws, it's literally that simple. We don't have the numbers of voters required forment the necessary change. We need to fix that problem, first, or at least alongside other efforts.

I don't see how wearing an empty holster is civil disobedience.

It isn't, I made the mistake of assuming you were insinuating you were going to do something different. I apologize for the piss poor assumption on my part.

I'm sure that the majority of the MA population won't know what a pistol holster is, but I'm sure people will ask "what's that?" and there is where it goes from. It is possible that a few others might see and do the same thing.

"Guns are bad."
"Are you a security guard/cop?"

I applaud you for trying to change the minds of the sheeple, but this state is so bad I don't think most will ever get it, at least not in the form of a 60 second encounter in the grocery store.

Now the original post is I want to make sure that I won't be breaking any MA crazy law against wearing an empty holster in plain view. Hell, I might even clip my cell phone inside it.

Not that I know of. A holster isn't a controlled item in MA.

A driver's license is a privilge but gun ownership is a right. Is there a lawyer/gun group with the stones willing to take this on???

People would be one thing, the real problem would be money. We'd need to raise millions of dollars, more than likely. It could be a Heller incorporation case.... but it would not be easy, and it'll likely take years.

I don't understand why MA gun owners are content with their situation and are afraid to do a damn thing about it. When your privliges go away who are you going to blame it on?

It's probably because of the fact that expecting a sea change in MA gun laws is pretty unlikely. This state is easily one of the worst in the nation. It could even be argued that sticking around to fight battles in MA is like trying to defend a city that the enemy has already burned to the ground... one is not defending anything but ashes at this point. Gun owners and GOAL are pretty much limited to "preventing further erosion" as opposed to recovering rights due to the political situation here. That's the sad reality of being an MA resident.

If you really want to change gun laws in MA we need to make more "gun owners that care about voting correctly" in MA, and swell the numbers to a point where we'll actually start being able to have real influence. Then we'll be bringing lots of resources to bear instead of what we have now, which isn't much more than a minority of a minority.

-Mike

 

[n1zfg]

During my brief scan of this thread, I didn't see anyone mention this:

http://concealedcampus.org/readmore.php?nid=40

Students for Concealed Carry on Campus will hold its third national collegiate Empty Holster Protest during the week of April 20-24, 2009. Thousands of college students throughout the United States, organized under the banner of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus (SCCC), will attend classes wearing empty holsters, in protest of state laws and school policies that stack the odds in favor of dangerous criminals and armed killers by disarming law abiding citizens licensed to carry concealed handguns virtually everywhere else. 
 


The protest will focus on sharing the facts of concealed carry with students and faculty who may not be aware that concealed carry laws exist or that those laws differ on college campuses from most other locations.

Students for Concealed Carry on Campus will neither host nor endorse any protests during the week of April 13-17. April 16 is to be a day of remembrance for the students, faculty, and families affected by the Virginia Tech shooting. SCCC wishes to avoid any action that might distract or detract from the memory of the individuals lost on April 16, 2007.

For more information, contact Katie Kasprzak at [email protected].

 

[Mattitude]

jdubois- So am I basically limited to low capacity (less than 10 rounds?) long guns? Handguns verboten (Ruger Super Blackhawk or Browning Buckmark)? I'll be up there from the 19th-26th this month and would like to relax & do some shooting and would like to know what I can legally bring. The sign on the CT border (2 year mandatory for firearms) makes me a bit wary of bringing anything.

rcinma- It is a vacation for me now, but I will come to inherit those 26 acres & log cabin in the future so I do have a great interest in this. I want my rights intact as there is a good possibility that I may live up there some day.

drgrant- I first want to thank you for taking this discussion seriously and not slamming me or turning it into a joke. I do learn a lot from your postings so far everything is pretty civil. Well as I said in the paragraph above even though MA is a vacation destination for me now, it will be a residency for me & my family in the future. I am worried by that time that my "privliges" will either be gone or damn close to it. I am a disabled veteran, 37 and already collect social security disability. I am a (barely) walking target for a violent crime. I refuse to be a victim, but that takes being in a society that respects my rights...not telling me that I can own a gun if I look nice or impress the chief with my candor or stripping my privlige because I pissed someone off. That is so far from being right, but even the attitudes of MA gun owners is take it or leave it and if it gets worse then they have no choice but to roll with that. You (gun owners) already resign the fight by saying you don't have the numbers or the money or support groups that let your privliges erode slowly instead of all at once. Take some responsibility for your situation and do something about it. Passing it off to someone else or a group puts your future with everyone but you. There is nothing wrong with drawing attention to an empty holster...it's harmless and possibly the more people see it, the more at ease they may feel or grow used to it. That is a small thing to do that could very well have big effects in the long term. Throwing away rights can happen overnight, but getting them back takes a long time. Put some effort into it because it is worth it.

 

[Mattitude]

No one else did but I am very happy that you did. Thank you very much and I hope that others get it that something so simple can bring attention in a non-threatening, positive way. These kids have balls and we should follow their example. We should be leading our youth, but it is them who are showing us a way to accomplish something very important.

During my brief scan of this thread, I didn't see anyone mention this:

http://concealedcampus.org/readmore.php?nid=40
Students for Concealed Carry on Campus will hold its third national collegiate Empty Holster Protest during the week of April 20-24, 2009. Thousands of college students throughout the United States, organized under the banner of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus (SCCC), will attend classes wearing empty holsters, in protest of state laws and school policies that stack the odds in favor of dangerous criminals and armed killers by disarming law abiding citizens licensed to carry concealed handguns virtually everywhere else. 
 


The protest will focus on sharing the facts of concealed carry with students and faculty who may not be aware that concealed carry laws exist or that those laws differ on college campuses from most other locations.

Students for Concealed Carry on Campus will neither host nor endorse any protests during the week of April 13-17. April 16 is to be a day of remembrance for the students, faculty, and families affected by the Virginia Tech shooting. SCCC wishes to avoid any action that might distract or detract from the memory of the individuals lost on April 16, 2007.

For more information, contact Katie Kasprzak at [email protected].

 

[jdubois]

jdubois- So am I basically limited to low capacity (less than 10 rounds?) long guns? Handguns verboten (Ruger Super Blackhawk or Browning Buckmark)? I'll be up there from the 19th-26th this month and would like to relax & do some shooting and would like to know what I can legally bring. The sign on the CT border (2 year mandatory for firearms) makes me a bit wary of bringing anything.

Correct, non-residents can bring in non-large capacity rifles and shotguns as long as they are unloaded and enclosed in a case while transporting them. I would further recommend they be in a locked trunk, though this is not legally necessary. Large capacity anything and/or any handguns are not allowed without an LTC. There is a clause that allows non-large capacity handguns for formal competitions, but that doesn't apply here.

The mandatory minimums for violating C. 269 § 10(a) (Unlawful carrying or possession of a firearm, rifle, or shotgun) are 1 year HOC or 2 1/2 years Prison. But you won't be in violation if you have "complied with the requirements imposed by section one hundred and twenty-nine C of chapter one hundred and forty upon ownership or possession of rifles and shotguns"

However, as always, you should contact a lawyer for actual legal advice, and I am not a lawyer.