Emergency Generator sizing

[Orion2k]

If you're concerned about the power grid failing, where are you going to get the liquid fuel from if the gas stations don't have power? Gasoline starts to decay after 30 days, longer with stabilizer but how much longer can you store it. I would stick with propane and get a couple of the 100 pound tanks, they have about 20 gallons of propane in them, or diesel fuel and run off your home heating oil tank if you have one. I've seen people with two (2) 330 gallon tanks in their cellar.

Also, those portable generators, and some larger ones too, are rated for stand-by use, where they run intermittently not primary use where they run all the time. You should also add motor oil to your list since you are most likely going to be doing frequent oil changes so you don't damage the motor.

 

[Cphobes]

My neighbor runs propane but only for his generator. He does not heat or cook with it. During outages, it is difficult for him to get propane delivered as he is not a steady customer. I would think that gasoline is preferred for preppers, as it is readily available almost everywhere, no?

During the recent outage, I was not effected however a friend in Plymouth said the lines at the gas station reminded him of the 70's. I offered to run several 5gal gas cans to his house but he was all set.

Not all gas stations can pump in an outage, some don't have the ability or availability of generators etc. So gas can be very scare. Even in Louisiana this past summer gas was tough to find.

Everyone has propane grills and you can go to a local propane station to fill them easily enough. You could also go get a bunch of blue rhino's at the local 7-11 or borrow your neighbors if you had to. I like the idea of having 4-6 tanks on hand full and ready. Less mess than gas and no need to worry around rotation or treating the gas to keep it fresh.

With a prolonged outage I would not just run the generator constantly. Someone else mentioned rationing power and running only when needed to heat or cook etc. I'm sure I can stretch a couple of tanks of gas or propane over 1-2 days even in the most severe cold weather.

 

[Night_solstice]

You just need to figure out which leg the furnace is on, and then assemble a 3 prong/4 receptacle female (L14-30R) franken-cable accordingly so the 110 from the inverter goes to that leg. Of course, nothing on the other leg will get powered, and nothing 240, so make sure to flip those breakers off.

* Appraiser's post #25 has a pic of such a franken-cable.

I'll yest this weekend to see what circuit it's on, I know the eu2000 companion has the (L5-30R) outlet amd would be easier to connect to the generator outlet (and my RV), so not the first time I wished I got that version.

 

[mac1911]

I picked up this one on sale last year, wish I went dual fuel option.
Any how running 2 fridges, heat minimal lights , TV , computer, wifi I went 20 hours onI tank ot 4 gallons.
That was with minimal conservation.
Im sure using the eco mode and shutting it down when not needed will stretch the fuel use.
Knowing that its still 5 gallons a day.
Much better than my ild gen that just cranked at 3600rpm 3000watt and pissed through fuel so it was shut down for several hours at a tine when in use

 

[NH_Realtor]

I picked up this one on sale last year, wish I went dual fuel option.
Any how running 2 fridges, heat minimal lights , TV , computer, wifi I went 20 hours onI tank ot 4 gallons.
That was with minimal conservation.
Im sure using the eco mode and shutting it down when not needed will stretch the fuel use.
Knowing that its still 5 gallons a day.
Much better than my ild gen that just cranked at 3600rpm 3000watt and pissed through fuel so it was shut down for several hours at a tine when in use

which one did you get?

I’m in agreement with most here, have a champion 8750 inverter on order which will be for the short term outages. Also have a Honda eu2200i for longer term/ other stuff. Gonna get a companion for it when I can.

what I need to figure out is being able to switch back and forth between generators so we can take hot showers, but also run the soon to be installed propane forced hot air heat economically off the Honda (as well as a few other items)

my baseline is the ice storm that knocked power out for 2 weeks in southern NH a few years back. I wasn’t here yet but still sits in my mind.

 

[Kevin_NH]

which one did you get? what I need to figure out is being able to switch back and forth between generators so we can take hot showers, but also run the soon to be installed propane forced hot air heat economically off the Honda (as well as a few other items)

my baseline is the ice storm that knocked power out for 2 weeks in southern NH a few years back. I wasn’t here yet but still sits in my mind.

The 2013 outages are what drove me to go from a large roll-around generator to automatic standby.
How do you get your water (240VAC well pump?) and how do you heat it?

 

[Hailstorm]

I had tried to get a generac installed. It is a 10 month wait. So, I went and just ordered https://www.lowes.com/pd/Champion-P...-Gas-Generator-with-Electric-Start/5001887771 from Lowes. Tri fuel. Plan is to get a 100 pounder propane tank. Then, use it with the switch box when needed. Should be here the 12th. Shouldn't freeze at least.

 

[appraiser]

I swap over to my big generator once a day to fill up the water tank from the well, usually around dinner time when I want to be able to get the most out of the kitchen... if showers need to be taken that is the time to do it.

My hot water is a zone on the burner with a well insulated tank.... I can have basic hot water when on my 120v set up, but large demand is done on the 5500 watt generator

 

[daekken]

Potentially stupid question, but do electricians usually have/provide interlock kits you can purchase as part of an installation?

I'd like to buy the Westinghouse or the Generac I previously posted, and contact someone to set me up for an interlock, but I'm hesitant to just go off and buy a kit or system without making sure it's the best choice for my situation and would work with my setup.

 

[appraiser]

Ask the electrician you hire if he is going to supply the parts or are you

I would bet the electrician will get the right kit from NE Electric Supply or other jobber supply house based on the type and size of the panel, assuming it is not an ancient panel.

 

[daekken]

Ask the electrician you hire if he is going to supply the parts or are you

I would bet the electrician will get the right kit from NE Electric Supply or other jobber supply house based on the type and size of the panel, assuming it is not an ancient panel.

I was going to ask NES's resident electric expert, if he is willing and able to do the job based on backlog/availability etc. Would prefer to go with "one of our own."

 

[appraiser]

Which expert is that, we have several.... we have a teacher who pops in now and then (and hates the electrical threads) , we have Sparkey, and Palladin and maybe one or two others depending on where you are.

 

[daekken]

Which expert is that, we have several.... we have a teacher who pops in now and then (and hates the electrical threads) , we have Sparkey, and Palladin and maybe one or two others depending on where you are.

I was going to see if @Palladin was available as I'm in the Merrimack Valley and @andrew1220 among others recommended his work.

 

[appraiser]

I can also +1 on the quality of his work

 

[Rob Boudrie]

A larger generator does use more fuel than a smaller one. Regardless of a light or heavy load, a generator generally needs to keep a constant 3600 rpm to provide 60 hz power. Some generators now can throttle down when demand is low. A large generator supporting a light load is just a waste of energy.

The inverter gens can throttle down because they generate AC convert to DC and invert back to AC. Note that 60per second = 3600 per minute, hence 3600 fixed. There are some with two pickups on the coil that run at a fixed 1800 (these tend to be diesels for some reason not known to me)

 

[NH_Realtor]

The 2013 outages are what drove me to go from a large roll-around generator to automatic standby.
How do you get your water (240VAC well pump?) and how do you heat it?

public water, electric water heater.

so big genny is for comfort (hot water, electric stove, dryer), little genny’s are for basics (heat, fridge and freezers, lights, internet)

@Palladin is gonna install an interlock for me once he gets done doing the 9000 other things I’m having him do at, as he calls it, my “slumlord” properties

 

[Kevin_NH]

public water, electric water heater.
so big genny is for comfort (hot water, electric stove, dryer), little genny’s are for basics (heat, fridge and freezers, lights, internet)

When my electric water tank finally died, I went with a propane-fired tankless from Rinnai. Draws very little electricity.

I wouldn't run a resistive heater off a generator if I could possibly avoid it. Maybe one of those new-fangled heat pump hybrid water heaters, if you can force it to not even try to use the resistive elements?

 

[NH_Realtor]

When my electric water tank finally died, I went with a propane-fired tankless from Rinnai. Draws very little electricity.

I wouldn't run a resistive heater off a generator if I could possibly avoid it. Maybe one of those new-fangled heat pump hybrid water heaters, if you can force it to not even try to use the resistive elements?

how come? Honestly curious I’m dumb most of the time.

I’d switch it to propane at some point but getting the propane line to water heater location and venting it is pretty much impossible in my house.

by the time that comes we’ll probably be in a new house anyways, so if we have to boil water in a longer term outage to bathe then so be it.

 

[Kevin_NH]

how come? Honestly curious I’m dumb most of the time.
I’d switch it to propane at some point but getting the propane line to water heater location and venting it is pretty much impossible in my house.
by the time that comes we’ll probably be in a new house anyways, so if we have to boil water in a longer term outage to bathe then so be it.

Resistive electric is may be just about 100% efficient at converting watts to BTU, but burning fuel to make electricity to make heat isn't great use of fuel (more of a consideration with a propane or diesel generator where you could use the same fuel for heat directly)

One thing I learned with my current house -- there's no pressing reason to keep the water heater where it was installed at build time, you could even install closer to the master bath and not remove the original.

 

[qqac]

how come? Honestly curious I’m dumb most of the time.

I have an electric water heater rated at 4500 watts that I run off my larger generator feeding the panel via interlock. If you happen to have an electric water heater, running it off generator is not a problem per se. You just have to have enough generator. The positive is that resistive heating does not have the inrush surge current issue that a motor starting up does, which can be multiples of what the rated operating current is for the motor.

 

[NH_Realtor]

Resistive electric is may be just about 100% efficient at converting watts to BTU, but burning fuel to make electricity to make heat isn't great use of fuel (more of a consideration with a propane or diesel generator where you could use the same fuel for heat directly)

One thing I learned with my current house -- there's no pressing reason to keep the water heater where it was installed at build time, you could even install closer to the master bath and not remove the original.

I’m not looking for efficiency, I’m looking for a hot shower here and there

 

[NH_Realtor]

I have an electric water heater rated at 4500 watts that I run off my larger generator feeding the panel via interlock. If you happen to have an electric water heater, running it off generator is not a problem per se. You just have to have enough generator. The positive is that resistive heating does not have the inrush surge current issue that a motor starting up does, which can be multiples of what the rated operating current is for the motor.

It’s not the wattage, it’s the 240V vs 120V to run the basics

the little Honda’s can run a lot with minimal fuel use but are only 120V

 

[AFAR/PFAR]

I heat by wood and am on a well. Hot water is electric. Whole house transfer switch.

I have a Generac GP 6500, and find it has no problems running the house provided I don't turn everything on at once. It will bog down if I run the water heater, my coffee pot, the stove, the bathroom fan, and the compressor for my two fridges kick on at the same time. All that can be mitigated by simply changing what you turn on or off at the same time.

That said, I'm likely going to take advantage of some credit cards deals and order a GP 8000 from Lowes next week. I'll either give the 6500 to my parents(lost power for a couple days last week) or sell it.

The larger generator will give me enough ass to be occasionally careless with what I'm running in the house at the same time. Despite this being a rental house, I'm pretty good at keeping enough gas on hand to make it three days, and once I get moved into my new house I'll keep more. I only use non ethanol and put marine stabil in it. It all gets rotated enough by running the snowblower and other small engines off of it. While a duel fuel to be able to run off my gas grill propane would be nice, it isn't a must for me.

 

[xtry51]

I had an indoor wood boiler in my CT house. You could gravity heat the house with the baseboards. All the hot water you wanted with a minimal circulation pump. I'm definitely going to do that again wherever I move.

Unit was a Memco. I keep my eye out for them.

 

[BlackwaterFence]

I recently purchased a Harbor Freight Predator 2000 inverter (Honda Clone) for work. My dad and then brother used it during the last outage and loved it. It’s light enough to carry, sips about 1 gallon gas in 10 hours, and is enough to power fridge, or freezer, or coffee pot as well as a few lights

 

[oldguy68]

I've setup quite a few friends with a little 2000watt inverter generator on a six circuit manual transfer switch.
Heat, the fridge, lighting and a kitchen counter circuit are all easy to accomplish as long as you loadshed or are careful of what you require of it.

Gas use and the light weight are the great benefit of these types and sizes of generators.
Not to mention clean, electronic safe power output!

 

[sfd10]

I've had a Generac 4000XL for 20+ years. I run it once a month to warm up and circulate the oil. I load test it with a portable floodlight kit. Once a year I hook it up to the house through the transfer switch for a full load test. Fuel storage is somewhat problematic. Mass Fire code limits how much gasoline you can store on your property. Check the MGL website for the latest info. Consider the response of your home insurance provider if a fire results from gasoline stored at home. Then make your decision as to how much generator runtime you need for anticipated grid down events. For the Hams out there, check out the ARRL book "Emergency Power for Radio Communications" by Micheal Bryce. HRO likely has it in stock.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I've had a Generac 4000XL for 20+ years. I run it once a month to warm up and circulate the oil. I load test it with a portable floodlight kit. Once a year I hook it up to the house through the transfer switch for a full load test. Fuel storage is somewhat problematic. Mass Fire code limits how much gasoline you can store on your property. Check the MGL website for the latest info. Consider the response of your home insurance provider if a fire results from gasoline stored at home. Then make your decision as to how much generator runtime you need for anticipated grid down events. For the Hams out there, check out the ARRL book "Emergency Power for Radio Communications" by Micheal Bryce. HRO likely has it in stock.

Once again, the myth of insurance carriers being able to deny a homeowners claim for a code violation surfaces.

Nobody has yet to provide any statutory, case law or even contract clause confirming this assertion.

 

[Palladin]

I've had a Generac 4000XL for 20+ years. I run it once a month to warm up and circulate the oil. I load test it with a portable floodlight kit. Once a year I hook it up to the house through the transfer switch for a full load test. Fuel storage is somewhat problematic. Mass Fire code limits how much gasoline you can store on your property. Check the MGL website for the latest info. Consider the response of your home insurance provider if a fire results from gasoline stored at home. Then make your decision as to how much generator runtime you need for anticipated grid down events. For the Hams out there, check out the ARRL book "Emergency Power for Radio Communications" by Micheal Bryce. HRO likely has it in stock.

You're concerned about how much gas the Commiwealth says you can store????

 

[garandman]

Quite a value here: 9500W inverter for $2,200.

9500 Watt SUPER QUIET Inverter Generator with CO SECURE Technology

Amazing deals on this 9500W Co Secure Inverter Generator at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com