Don't talk to the police...

STFU is exactly what my lawyer told me to do if I was ever questioned by police during the aftermath of a self defense shooting.

His words: Don't say anything and call me right away.
 
Why you should not talk to the Police

This is an engaging and fascinating video presentation by Professor James Duane of the Regent University School of Law, explaining why -- in a criminal matter -- you should never, ever, ever talk to the police or any other government agent. It doesn't matter if you're guilty or innocent, if you have an alibi or not -- it isn't possible for anything you say to help you, and it's very possible that innocuous things you say will hurt you. Definitely worth half an hour of your time.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4097602514885833865


And this is a video of Virginia Beach Police Department Officer George Bruch, who basically says that Duane is right.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6014022229458915912&hl=en
 
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Links

Magneton44
No, you did not do anything wrong. I noticed the problem and fixed it within
10 minutes of posting.
I just watched both films and they are very interesting (read that as sobering)
 
Great Video for homeschoolers

[smile]I just started homeschooling my son. He learned the basics of reloading ammo this weekend. (He's a machine) This video will definitely be part of his education (and mine).[smile]
 
PennyPincher said:
[smile]I just started homeschooling my son. He learned the basics of reloading ammo this weekend. (He's a machine) This video will definitely be part of his education (and mine).[smile]
Click to expand...


I please ask that you teach this in the correct context and not just "Don't talk top the police".

This is especially important in kids.
 
M1911 said:
You may remember an incident in Arlington several years ago. A drunk burglar broke into a home when one of the two homeowners was home. He advanced on the woman even as she pointed a gun at him. She then shot him once in the neck. The perp survived.

The woman was not charged, but her legal odyssey took one year before it was settled.
Click to expand...

Sorry for the thread-jack, but the perp in the Arlington situation comes from a family with a sordid past. He used to live 3 houses up from me.

His oldest brother had a lengthy record, including an attempted carjacking/kidnapping, and had attempted to steal our car on one occasion with a screwdriver.

His youngest brother (three years younger than me, IIRC) died of a heroin OD a few years back, as well.

The matriarch of the family was, IMO, insane and a stark raving bitch until the day cancer took her off the planet.

My dad has since spoken with the would-be burglar, and he straightened himself out. I guess being shot in the neck will do that.
 
bishop375 said:
Sorry for the thread-jack, but the perp in the Arlington situation comes from a family with a sordid past. He used to live 3 houses up from me.
Click to expand...
This situation was just about the "ideal" defensive shooting -- a woman, in her own home, attacked by a burglar who was "known to the police."

And yet it still took a year before the woman got her license and guns back. [puke]
 
It's pretty sad that you have to worry about being put under the lamp instead of just worrying about stopping the attack or burglary. If that is in the back of your mind then it might cause you to hesitate giving the perp. a chance to get one over on you. I guess I'll have to try and put that out of my mind and then just deal with whatever happens when the cops show up. From what I hear, the cops in my town don't discourage "self-help".

Then when they do show up the gun will be open and on the table. When they ask questions I'll just say I have been advised not to say anything until I have representation.
 
Maybe way off base here.. But, despite the feelings of the police about what happened, if it was a justified self defense or not, is still largely irrelevant. Talking to the police, by and large, will only get you into more trouble (which is what the video is showing). And really can not help you at all, remember anything you say can and will be used AGAINST you.

Ultimately, it will be the DA that will make the decision to prosecute or not. And this will largely be driven by the court of public opinion whipped up into a frenzy by the press..In this case, anything said to the police will by and large only be used AGAINST you in court. Despite the feelings of the police on the scene, it is what they will be asked and how they answer in court. And then how that sounds to the jury.

Between the press and a prosecutor, they can twist anything to mean what they want it to.

In short, if something happens, be prepared. You WILL be arrested. Shut up and talk only to a lawyer.
 
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seanc said:
Maybe way off base here.. But, despite the feelings of the police about what happened, if it was a justified self defense or not, is still largely irrelevant. Talking to the police, by and large, will only get you into more trouble (which is what the video is showing). And really can not help you at all, remember anything you say can and will be used AGAINST you.

Ultimately, it will be the DA that will make the decision to prosecute or not. And this will largely be driven by the court of public opinion whipped up into a frenzy by the press..In this case, anything said to the police will by and large only be used AGAINST you in court. Despite the feelings of the police on the scene, it is what they will be asked and how they answer in court. And then how that sounds to the jury.

Between the press and a prosecutor, they can twist anything to mean what they want it to.

In short, if something happens, be prepared. You WILL be arrested. Shut up and talk only to a lawyer.
Click to expand...

Well said... [wink]
 
I just started homeschooling my son. He learned the basics of reloading ammo this weekend. (He's a machine) This video will definitely be part of his education (and mine).
Click to expand...
A friend's son was in elementary school a number of years ago when the teacher asked him to define "grain" for the class. He explained it was a unit of measure exactly equal to 1/7000th of a lb. Fortunately, he defended his position when the teacher told him he was wrong.
 
Hypothetical...after talking to police in court..

Prosecutor: Did you describe the deceased as "black (or Hispanic)"?
defendant: yes, well, the police...
prosector: Do you ALWAYS describe people that don't look like you that way?
defendant: Well! you see, umm, I...
prosector: You were not born and raised here, am I correct?
defendant: that is correct, I...
prosecutor: You came here from Atlanta (or maybe relatives in a Southern State)?
defendant: yes.
prosecutor: Were you aware that both your great grandfather And your great grand uncle BOTH served as Confederate soldiers in the Civil War??

defendant: Well yes, and I....
Prosecutor: Aha! And were you also aware that you 3rd cousin, and your wife's cousin's brother in law are or were actively in the KKK?
defendant? What, Who? I have never even..

Prosecutor: Well, ladies and genltemen of the Jury, you will see the defendant comes from a long line of Racists and grew up in and around race hatred..

My poor unfortunate client, merely went up to Mr. Smith's door to ask for directions, being lost. When due to the darkness, he stumbled on the defendant's steps causing him to fall into the front door. The door crashed open. When my client went to apologize to the home owner for causing damage. The defendant, being from racist stock, seeing a person of color instantly attacked my client..

moral. SAY nothing. it just can not help you..
 
M1911 said:
This situation was just about the "ideal" defensive shooting -- a woman, in her own home, attacked by a burglar who was "known to the police."

And yet it still took a year before the woman got her license and guns back. [puke]
Click to expand...

A woman in her own home, who gave at least three verbal warnings, I might add.

Unbelievable that we have to be criminalized for defending ourselves.
 
bishop375 said:
A woman in her own home, who gave at least three verbal warnings, I might add.

Unbelievable that we have to be criminalized for defending ourselves.
Click to expand...

Please correct me if I'm wrong but..

I think the issue here is that in this state self defense is not an absolute defense (right). We have no castle doctorine here.

The mere fact that someone breaks into your bedroom at night while you're sleeping does not seem to be reason enough to take action..
 
seanc said:
Please correct me if I'm wrong but..

I think the issue here is that in this state self defense is not an absolute defense (right). We have no castle doctorine here.

The mere fact that someone breaks into your bedroom at night while you're sleeping does not seem to be reason enough to take action..
Click to expand...

You are wrong. Consider yourself corrected.

The "castle laws" have been posted on this forum several times. Use search and you will find them.
 
Scrivener (or other lawyer),

Can a person's refusal to cooperate with the police and the degree (attitude) be used against them at trial?
 
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Scrivener said:
You are wrong. Consider yourself corrected.

The "castle laws" have been posted on this forum several times. Use search and you will find them.
Click to expand...

PART IV. CRIMES, PUNISHMENTS AND PROCEEDINGSIN CRIMINAL CASES


TITLE II. PROCEEDINGS IN CRIMINAL CASES


CHAPTER 278. TRIALS AND PROCEEDINGS BEFORE JUDGMENT


Chapter 278: Section 8A. Killing or injuring a person unlawfully in a dwelling; defense


Section 8A. In the prosecution of a person who is an occupant of a dwelling charged with killing or injuring one who was unlawfully in said dwelling, it shall be a defense that the occupant was in his dwelling at the time of the offense and that he acted in the reasonable belief that the person unlawfully in said dwelling was about to inflict great bodily injury or death upon said occupant or upon another person lawfully in said dwelling, and that said occupant used reasonable means to defend himself or such other person lawfully in said dwelling. There shall be no duty on said occupant to retreat from such person unlawfully in said dwelling.


It is my understanding that the homeowner will still need to PROVE they acted inkeeping with the "immanent severe bodily injury or death" frame of mind to justify the use of a firearm against an intruder.
The broader interpretation of the castle doctrine that also takes into account protection of property is not present. In the states that have this it removes much of the hurdles in justification. A person can (and has, texas) use deadly force to protect his neighbors against robbery.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
A friend's son was in elementary school a number of years ago when the teacher asked him to define "grain" for the class. He explained it was a unit of measure exactly equal to 1/7000th of a lb. Fortunately, he defended his position when the teacher told him he was wrong.
Click to expand...
[rofl]

I'd love to have heard that.
 
Titan said:
Scrivener (or other lawyer),

Can a person's refusal to cooperate with the police and the degree (attitude) be used against them at trial?
Click to expand...


I don't need to be a lawyer to remind you about the 5th Ammendment.

Look it up and read it. While you're at it, check out Miranda. Do it yourself, I'm not doing it for you.

You'll probably answer your own question then, at least half of it.
 
seanc said:
It is my understanding that the homeowner will still need to PROVE they acted in keeping with the "immanent [sic] severe bodily injury or death" frame of mind to justify the use of a firearm against an intruder.
Click to expand...

An affirmative defense is just that - a defense; not a get out of jail free card. Of course, an intruder who broke into an occupied home is quite likely to have put any occupants thereof "in fear of imminent death or severe bodily injury."


The broader interpretation of the castle doctrine that also takes into account protection of property is not present. In the states that have this it removes much of the hurdles in justification. A person can (and has, texas) use deadly force to protect his neighbors against robbery.
Click to expand...

Other than Texas, just what states do you claim include mere protection of property as justification for the use of deadly force?
 
Nickle said:
I don't need to be a lawyer to remind you about the 5th Ammendment. Look it up and read it. While you're at it, check out Miranda. Do it yourself, I'm not doing it for you. You'll probably answer your own question then, at least half of it.
Click to expand...

This is simple.

A 911 tape is listened to and you say little or nothing about what happened or spew out a short blurb that sounds 'prepared' about what happened and essentially 'lawyer up' until the cops come.

Can it hurt you when heard by a jury, or can your lawyer get the tape suppressed?

Same question regarding cop testimony regarding his interaction with you upon his first arriving upon the scene and whatever you first tell him.

Certainly he can tell the jury how you responded to him upon his arrival.
He can tell you if he could question you of if you weren't there to provide any details, because you had to go off to the hospital.

Can any of that hurt you or can it be suppressed?

The advice is being given here, I'd like to know how to evaluate the usefulness of the avice with all of the information I need to make a decision.
 
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Titan: I suggest that you take LFI-1. Ayoob discusses this in great detail.

This Spring Aware held a seminar about surviving the court battle. There were four speakers:

- a MA police chief
- Lisa Steele, an appellate attorney who has worked on self-defense cases.
- Kevin Reddington, a very prominent defense attorney who has worked on self-defense cases
- Another defense attorney, who was an ADA in Suffolk County for 13 years, and has worked on self-defense cases from both sides.

The two defense attorneys said: STFU!
Lisa Steele suggested giving a brief statement
The police chief, while he brought up the issue of tachysychia and post-shooting trauma, suggested giving a broader statement.

Your choice.
 
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M1911 said:
Titan: I suggest that you take LFI-1. Ayoob discusses this in great detail.

This Spring Aware held a seminar about surviving the court battle. There were four speakers:

- a MA police chief
- Lisa Steele, an appellate attorney who has worked on self-defense cases.
- Kevin Reddington, a very prominent defense attorney who has worked on self-defense cases
- Another defense attorney, who was an ADA in Suffolk County for 13 years, and has worked on self-defense cases from both sides.

The two defense attorneys said: STFU!
Lisa Steele suggested giving a brief statement
The police chief, while he brought up the issue of tachysychia and post-shooting trauma, suggested giving a broader statement.

Your choice.
Click to expand...

That course is something I have already been thinking about. Thanks for the advice.


I guess my temporary conclusion and recommendation for anyone reading this thread is to understand that there are at least two schools of thought on whether or not to speak to the cops and how much to speak and to do a LOT MORE personal research before deciding on a course of action for yourself, including discussing the issue with your own attorney.

The video clip is a great presentation of the 'don't talk' argument.


.
 
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