Don't talk to the police...

I watched the whole thing. That's excellent. The question I would pose to you all then is, after a self-defense shooting, what would you say to the 911 operator knowing that the call you make will have information that could be used against you.
 
WayneWong said:
The question I would pose to you all then is, after a self-defense shooting, what would you say to the 911 operator knowing that the call you make will have information that could be used against you.
Click to expand...

Something like this

911 Operator: "911, what is your emergency?"
Me: "I am calling to report a shooting"
911 Operator: "What is the location?"
Me: "such and such address"
911 Operator: "What is your name?"
Me: "I cannot say anything else without my lawyer present"

Hang up.

Put away the gun and wait for the cops to show up.
 
Big_Red said:
Something like this

911 Operator: "911, what is your emergency?"
Me: "I am calling to report a shooting"
911 Operator: "What is the location?"
Me: "such and such address"
911 Operator: "What is your name?"
Me: "I cannot say anything else without my lawyer present"
Click to expand...

I don't think I would call and report a shooting, I think I would call and report a burglary, assault, or whatever the actual crime was, and then request medical assistance because the burglar, assailant, whatever has been shot. Why "report" a shooting when it's not a crime? I think that has an unnecessary negative connotation.
 
GOAL's Art of Concealed Carry covered this issue very extensively. It's simple really, during the 911 call don't say "there's been a shooting..." say something a long the lines of " hi, i a man broke into my home and threatened me and my families lives. He had what appeared to be a weapon on him. Thank god I had my firearm, we wouldn't be alive. My address is so and so...please come help. Holster your weapon, mention to the officer that you feared death and had to use lethal force to save yourself / family and that you wish to speak to a lawyer before giving any report. Obey officer's commands and let him know where the firearm is very slowly.
 
" hi, i a man broke into my home and threatened me and my families lives. He had what appeared to be a weapon on him. Thank god I had my firearm, we wouldn't be alive. My address is so and so...please come help.
Click to expand...

Why would you make those comments. You are basically leaving yourself open for the possibility of if it goes to court, you will be asked and questioned on those comments in finite detail. You have the right to remain silent. Take it and shut up.

Too many seem to forget that the criminal case can be the least of your problems. If the assailant or his/her lawyer has any brains, they will file a civil suit if there is the slightest opening to do so. What looks cut and dried to you can be spun many ways to change the overall view of the incident.. They are just as nasty, or even more so then a criminal trial.
 
The video was very informative and interesting.

I agree with rscalzo though, that seems to be too much information to be putting out there under a time of duress, even in the video the Professor and Officer indicated simply keeping your mouth shut because it may likely be used against you.

I would think that it would be best to go along with something along the means of “There was an attempted xxx at xxx resulting in a shooting. Please send police and an ambulance.” Ask for medical aid on the spot then lawyer up from that point on.

Will be interesting if any of the Mass lawyers chime in though.
 
clinotus said:
The video was very informative and interesting.

I agree with rscalzo though, that seems to be too much information to be putting out there under a time of duress, even in the video the Professor and Officer indicated simply keeping your mouth shut because it may likely be used against you.

I would think that it would be best to go along with something along the means of “There was an attempted xxx at xxx resulting in a shooting. Please send police and an ambulance.” Ask for medical aid on the spot then lawyer up from that point on.

Will be interesting if any of the Mass lawyers chime in though.
Click to expand...



Reading all the post... something hit me... What is really said is... Instead of being honest on the phone and being thankful for just surviving an attack... we all have to stop and think of our words/actions to the "Authorities" in fear of being sued or arrested....

I Hate this state... I feel for everyone that grew up here... [sad2]
 
Cherokee_Outlaw said:
Reading all the post... something hit me... What is really said is... Instead of being honest on the phone and being thankful for just surviving an attack... we all have to stop and think of our words/actions to the "Authorities" in fear of being sued or arrested....

I Hate this state... I feel for everyone that grew up here... [sad2]
Click to expand...

It's not just this state. The attorney and police officer in that video were from VA. The issues they discussed are true in any state of the union.
 
Big_Red said:
Hang up.

Put away the gun and wait for the cops to show up.
Click to expand...

And when the police arrive, there's a body on your floor and your loaded gun, missing one or more rounds, sitting on the dresser. At this point you're supposed to say: "I'd like to tell you what happened but I need to wait to speak to an attorney." ??

Any LEOs on this forum? Would you accept that, or would I spend the night in jail?
 
Ninemil said:
And when the police arrive, there's a body on your floor and your loaded gun, missing one or more rounds, sitting on the dresser. At this point you're supposed to say: "I'd like to tell you what happened but I need to wait to speak to an attorney." ??

Any LEOs on this forum? Would you accept that, or would I spend the night in jail?
Click to expand...

You're gonna spend the night in jail whether you talk or not. There is nothing you can say to the officer at the time that will make the issue go away right then and there. They're not going to pat you on the back, say "good shooting", cart away the body and you go on with your life.

You are at the start of what is likely a marathon legal fight.

The police officer in the video made an analogy -- when you talk to the investigating officer, it is like someone offered you $100 to get in a boxing ring with an olympic medal winner. You're gonna lose. The officer has interviewed thousands and thousands of people. He's good at it.
 
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Ninemil said:
And when the police arrive, there's a body on your floor and your loaded gun, missing one or more rounds, sitting on the dresser. At this point you're supposed to say: "I'd like to tell you what happened but I need to wait to speak to an attorney." ??

Any LEOs on this forum? Would you accept that, or would I spend the night in jail?
Click to expand...

I'd rather spend a night in jail than years in prison.
 
M1911 said:
It's not just this state. The attorney and police officer in that video were from VA. The issues they discussed are true in any state of the union.
Click to expand...

In Oklahoma / Texas... someone breaks into your home with a weapon and even without a weapon.. you kill them dead on the spot.. thats pretty much it... The officer will not ask to see a FID card nor try to see if your "legal" to have a gun... So no... its not like that in every state...
 
Cherokee_Outlaw said:
In Oklahoma / Texas... someone breaks into your home with a weapon and even without a weapon.. you kill them dead on the spot.. thats pretty much it... The officer will not ask to see a FID card nor try to see if your "legal" to have a gun... So no... its not like that in every state...
Click to expand...
True.
 
There's a vast difference in the social acceptability of private violence against lawbreakers in different parts of the country. That will be reflected in the self-defense laws of those areas.
 
In MA your treated like a criminal for wanted to defend yourself, so I can't imagine how'd they'd treat you if you actually had to defend yourself. I'll withdraw my first post, because it does not reflect the lessons taught in the GOAL course. I will then agree with most on this thread that said keep your yapper shut.
 
Cherokee_Outlaw said:
In Oklahoma / Texas... someone breaks into your home with a weapon and even without a weapon.. you kill them dead on the spot.. thats pretty much it... The officer will not ask to see a FID card nor try to see if your "legal" to have a gun... So no... its not like that in every state...
Click to expand...

Well, sometimes LE response to an SD incidents can even vary by city or county, or other locality. For instance, if you have to defend yourself in Philadumpia, it's almost a sure bet that the local DA/Prosecutor will try to press you 10 times as hard as you would almost anywhere else in PA, due to the city's severe anti gun leanings. There was a fellow on sigforum who almost got raked over the coals for not even drawing his firearm, just EXPOSING it when a bum accosted him with a knife. Had he done the same thing outside the city limits I doubt he would have even been charged to begin with.

-Mike
 
Video

What happened to it? I got to see it the first day of this post and then "poof", it can no longer be accessed? Is there another link or a download-able video somewhere?
 
Here is what I would do. I am a lawyer, but this post should NOT be taken as legal advice. This is what I personally would just do and am not advocating or suggesting anyone else do the same.

As a general rule, I would say as little as possible anytime for anything where there may be criminal charges levied against me whether or not firearms related, OUI, jaywalking, etc. My mantra, "admit nothing and deny everything."

It is likely that whatever I would say would be hearsay, which may or may not be admissible depending on exactly what I said, how good a lawyer I have, etc. It could be admitted as an admission against interest or an excited utterance depending on the content of the message (which is likely to be recorded). I would assume the worst and concede that everything I say would be admissible. I would probably say

"Someone with a gun was in my house and tried to kill me - send the police now."

I would let 911 ask questions back about people being hurt, etc., and try and answer "yes" or "no" and no more. Keep in mind in the heat of the moment, any rehearsed speech that I would have is likely to be forgotten by me. In an ideal world I might say,

"A person illegally entered my locked and secure residence with a clear and unambiguous intention to cause certain and absolutely imminent and deadly bodily harm to me, which would have resulted in my death. After retrieving my locked, secure and legally held and purchased firearm, I was left with no choice or route to retreat or escape and was forced, through the person's very own actions, to discharge my legally held and purchased firearm to protect myself from the certain and absolutely imminent and deadly bodily harm that would have lead to my death by that person."

But, unless I printed that out and pasted it by the phone, there is just no way I would personally remember all that crap after being shot at or being forced to shoot someone else. And if I did print it out and paste it by the phone, I likely would be questioned as to why it was there in the first place.

In general, saying more than absolutely necessary is just not good in any potential legal proceeding. Your own prior words can only hurt you. This would be true, by the way, whether you were in Mass. or not. Why make the prosecution's case any easier?
 
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You're gonna spend the night in jail whether you talk or not.
Click to expand...

And likely, your whole house will be searched, and every gun and round of ammunition will be hauled out.

If your lucky streak holds out, you may see them again and they will only be slightly damaged.
 
Baystatesuks said:
Here is what I would do. I am a lawyer, but this post should NOT be taken as legal advice. This is what I personally would just do and am not advocating or suggesting anyone else do the same.

As a general rule, I would say as little as possible anytime for anything where there may be criminal charges levied against me whether or not firearms related, OUI, jaywalking, etc. My mantra, "admit nothing and deny everything."

It is likely that whatever I would say would be hearsay, which may or may not be admissible depending on exactly what I said, how good a lawyer I have, etc. It could be admitted as an admission against interest or an excited utterance depending on the content of the message (which is likely to be recorded). I would assume the worst and concede that everything I say would be admissible. I would probably say



"Someone with a gun was in my house and tried to kill me - send the police now."

I would let 911 ask questions back about people being hurt, etc., and try and answer "yes" or "no" and no more. Keep in mind in the heat of the moment, any rehearsed speech that I would have is likely to be forgotten by me. In an ideal world I might say,

"A person illegally entered my locked and secure residence with a clear and unambiguous intention to cause certain and absolutely imminent and deadly bodily harm to me, which would have resulted in my death. After retrieving my locked, secure and legally held and purchased firearm, I was left with no choice or route to retreat or escape and was forced, through the person's very own actions, to discharge my legally held and purchased firearm to protect myself from the certain and absolutely imminent and deadly bodily harm that would have lead to my death by that person."

But, unless I printed that out and pasted it by the phone, there is just no way I would personally remember all that crap after being shot at or being forced to shoot someone else. And if I did print it out and paste it by the phone, I likely would be questioned as to why it was there in the first place.

In general, saying more than absolutely necessary is just not good in any potential legal proceeding. Your own prior words can only hurt you. This would be true, by the way, whether you were in Mass. or not. Why make the prosecution's case any easier?
Click to expand...



I have to say.... With the way I was brought up... I'm already programmed to answer all the questions that someone asks me.. then relying on the legal system to square everything else away... Yes... I would be a attorneys nightmare client that would be an open book... [thinking]


But back home in Oklahoma... you would think about what you would do and/or say ONLY IF you plan on doing something criminally wrong...
Heck friends and/or family would look at you like your up to no good if they heard you talking about how to handle something like this... lol

Again... not taking shots at you or anyone on this board with thoughts about what they would do in a situation.. Its just I can not believe this sad place we live... The friends to the north (VT,NH & ME) I'm not sure about...

Its truly a different world up here when it comes to guns in general.. but I have to play by the rules of the place I live... I still have a right to bit*h.. [wink]
 

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