Does a trigger lock count as secured while transport?

[Robert1]

My understanding is that all these storage laws have NOTHING to do with theft.
They are regulatory, procedural provisions that will prevent a minor from injuring or killing themselves or someone else with a firearm.
The entire legal Mass legislature related to guns with trigger pressure etc is around that. Satisfying concerns about kids getting a hold on firearms.

 

[M1911]

My understanding is that all these storage laws have NOTHING to do with theft.
They are regulatory, procedural provisions that will prevent a minor from injuring or killing themselves or someone else with a firearm.

Unless you were in the room while Cheryl Jacques and her staff (and whatever Brady staff were helping), you really don't know what they were thinking.

The entire legal Mass legislature related to guns with trigger pressure etc is around that. Satisfying concerns about kids getting a hold on firearms.

The "consumer protection" provisions in the statute are in an entirely different section than the transport laws.

 

[ace7644]

This makes no sense! why can I not transport a cable locked gun in my range bag but I can transport an unlocked gun in a cable locked range bag with the lock going through the zippers? Guess i've been doing it wrong. Next time I'll have to leave my brain out of the equation.

 

[jasons]

This makes no sense!

I honestly think that's the whole point.

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

It is not supposed to make sense this is Massachusetts

 

[M1911]

This makes no sense! why can I not transport a cable locked gun in my range bag but I can transport an unlocked gun in a cable locked range bag with the lock going through the zippers? Guess i've been doing it wrong. Next time I'll have to leave my brain out of the equation.

Because the law says so. Malum prohibitum laws are often arbitrary, by their very nature.

Maybe the drafters of the law intended that cable locks/trigger locks were OK for storage but not for transport based on some "logic" that appealed to them. Or maybe that wasn't what they intended and they simply screwed up.

 

[Neeko]

thanks for everyones help and insight. so pretty much if I'm transporting a gun it needs to be a in bag, case, container etc.. that can be locked to comply with wonderful MA laws.

 

[M1911]

thanks for everyones help and insight. so pretty much if I'm transporting a gun it needs to be a in bag, case, container etc.. that can be locked to comply with wonderful MA laws.

From the statute:

unless such weapon is unloaded and contained within the locked trunk of such vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container.

 

[GPP]

thanks for everyones help and insight. so pretty much if I'm transporting a gun it needs to be a in bag, case, container etc.. that can be locked to comply with wonderful MA laws.

If you have LTC A you can always transport it in a holster attached to your person too. In your direct control.

 

[RG617]

Lots of people do. Probably half the people who I see come by the club have trigger locks on their guns, which are inside an unlocked range bag.

Here's the actual law on transport:
https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section131C

That wording sucks. You know, if a LEO was really looking to screw with you, it reads as if the wording could be interpreted, "If you're carrying on a class A it HAS to be in your control. Locked in a container in the trunk puts you in violation". It isn't going to stick, but I wouldn't want to be the guy Martha's minions tested it out on. The cost of a lawyer alone wouldn't be much fun.

It is not supposed to make sense this is Massachusetts

This never gets any less true.

 

[M1911]

Yes, that is perhaps the most badly written of MA firearms laws.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Most likely, it was because different staffers wrote different sections of the law. MGL is full of unintended consequences - like allowing aliens living in the US but outside MA to get an LTC but not allowing resident aliens to get an LTC (prior to Fletcher v. Haas which changed that); or not allowing a holder of a temporary non resident LTC to buy ammunition.

 

[OfficerObie59]

Ignore the Junior Moderators.

The answer to your question is "No."

I drive a Jeep too, so I have the same problem. You can carry a handgun on you (loaded or unloaded) if you have an unrestricted LTC A. If not, or if you prefer not to carry it, you'll need to unload the gun and put it in a 'locked container'.

I put locked container in quotes because almost anything with a lock counts. If your duffel bag or backpack has a D-ring at the end of the zipper, you can put a luggage lock through the zipper and D-ring and you'll have a locked container.

There's no need to ever use a trigger lock during transport.

Just remember this advice is for guns that require an LTC to possess--handguns and high capacity long guns.

Long guns you could otherwise possess with an FID card default back to the safe storage law that applies when your at home, requiring a trigger lock or locked container. For example, a five shot bolt action rifle trigger locked in the back seat would be okay.

 

[OfficerObie59]

Most likely, it was because different staffers wrote different sections of the law. MGL is full of unintended consequences - like allowing aliens living in the US but outside MA to get an LTC but not allowing resident aliens to get an LTC (prior to Fletcher v. Haas which changed that); or not allowing a holder of a temporary non resident LTC to buy ammunition.

Syrie Fried spoke on this after the BBA did a review on the mess that is ch 140 and ch 269.

She said they came to the conclusion MA legislators take a "de novo" approach to amending MA gun laws.

 

[Mike-Mike]

Just remember this advice is for guns that require an LTC to possess--handguns and high capacity long guns.

Long guns you could otherwise possess with an FID card default back to the safe storage law that applies when your at home, requiring a trigger lock or locked container. For example, a five shot bolt action rifle trigger locked in the back seat would be okay.

Any FID gun can be unlocked during transport.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Just remember this advice is for guns that require an LTC to possess--handguns and high capacity long guns.

Long guns you could otherwise possess with an FID card default back to the safe storage law that applies when your at home, requiring a trigger lock or locked container. For example, a five shot bolt action rifle trigger locked in the back seat would be okay.

On FID long guns . . . not really. Per MGL you could toss them on the back seat openly as long as they are unloaded. It would be downright stupid to do so, but no locks/containers are required by the law for "transportation". As soon as you get out of the car (leaving them in the car), it flips to "storage" and that is where you need a trigger lock/cable lock/locked case/locked trunk (only one of these needed) to comply with the law.

It is more prudent to treat all guns the same way and avoid potential conflict.

 

[dgrafton]

thanks for everyones help and insight. so pretty much if I'm transporting a gun it needs to be a in bag, case, container etc.. that can be locked to comply with wonderful MA laws.

One of the easiest ways to deal with it:

Most soft pistol cases have a d-ring that you can padlock the zipper to.

Long gun soft cases that don't have a d-ring can have a grommet installed.

Buy a bunch of little padlocks all keyed alike.

All my guns get treated the same, and covers me for transport or storage in vehicle if I have to leave the vehicle for a few minutes. I generally put everything on the back floor of my suv and throw a jacket on top.

It makes no sense, but it covers the legalities.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[richc]

Just remember this advice is for guns that require an LTC to possess--handguns and high capacity long guns.

Long guns you could otherwise possess with an FID card default back to the safe storage law that applies when your at home, requiring a trigger lock or locked container. For example, a five shot bolt action rifle trigger locked in the back seat would be okay.

Perhaps for you, Officer Obie, you can show a badge. I fear to think what would happen to my law abiding 20 yo son with an FID card if some police departments observed an otherwise trigger locked bolt action rifle sitting on the back seat. Or, if as others suggest, without a trigger lock, unloaded, in the back seat and perfectly legal.

I know you quote the law correctly. But that's not always enough.

 

[J.A.C]

what if you are transporting your love gun, do you have to lock your jeans?

 

[drgrant]

Perhaps for you, Officer Obie, you can show a badge. I fear to think what would happen to my law abiding 20 yo son with an FID card if some police departments observed an otherwise trigger locked bolt action rifle sitting on the back seat.

I know you quote the law correctly. But that's not always enough.

The other problem with unlocked FID guns in a vehicle not in a trunk or secured container is there's an argument floating around that if you're not in attendance with the firearm then the guns are now in "storage" and the parts of the law discussing storage now apply. So if one believes that, then you're pretty much de-facto illegal if you get out of your car and go into cumbys to get a coffee, or stop somewhere to take a pee break. Of course, it's debatable whether this has validity or not, because there's probably not a ton of case law based on this issue, the only way it would really come about in most cases is if the guns got jacked while in the vehicle and the owner ran their mouth to police that the guns were unsecured.

-Mike

 

[MisterHappy]

Go to a yard sale.

Get an old blanket.

Put it over the evil things.

 

[45collector]

During hunting seasons I might be driving to several different spots throughout the day in pursuit of deer, duck, turkey or whatever. I always put a trigger lock on whatever long gun I'm using that day when it goes back into the 4runner. Then the gun goes into a non-locking soft sided case. I know I don't need to trigger lock it when I'm in the vehicle, but a lot of times I'll have more than one long gun with me depending on what I'm hunting that day. So I make a habit of trigger locking and casing any (non hi cap) long gun at all times. Going above and beyond what the law requires in these cases is not that much of a pain, and there's nothing wrong with being extra careful, especially in MA.

 

[MisterHappy]

This is the essence of "Massprudence"

 

[M1911]

During hunting seasons I might be driving to several different spots throughout the day in pursuit of deer, duck, turkey or whatever. I always put a trigger lock on whatever long gun I'm using that day when it goes back into the 4runner. Then the gun goes into a non-locking soft sided case. I know I don't need to trigger lock it when I'm in the vehicle, but a lot of times I'll have more than one long gun with me depending on what I'm hunting that day. So I make a habit of trigger locking and casing any (non hi cap) long gun at all times. Going above and beyond what the law requires in these cases is not that much of a pain, and there's nothing wrong with being extra careful, especially in MA.

I'd throw a lock on the soft case, but then I'm

 

[Eric64]

I've read that transport statute over about a dozen times and I don't see anything at all about transport of unloaded handguns or non large capacity rifles and shotguns by the Class A LTC holder.

If you have a Class A LTC and the firearm (handgun) is loaded it has to be under your direct control.

If you have a Class B LTC your firearm (handgun) has to in a locked container or trunk.

If you're transporting a large capacity shotgun or rifle it also has to be in a locked container or trunk.

I don't see anything in there that says an unloaded firearm (handgun) transported by Class A LTC has to be in a locked container. If it is there could somebody point it out to me? Or if there is any case law interpreting it that way could somebody direct me to the case? Otherwise to me it looks like trigger locks for an unloaded handgun would be fine if you have a Class A LTC.

 

[45collector]

This is the essence of "Massprudence"

True. Was that you that coined that phrase? Someone on here coined it.

I'd throw a lock on the soft case, but then I'm

Some of my soft cases have the small leather loop near the zipper when closed, some do not. Wouldn't be a bad idea anyhow, and I don't fault you for being tinny.

 

[45collector]

I've read that transport statute over about a dozen times and I don't see anything at all about transport of unloaded handguns or non large capacity rifles and shotguns by the Class A LTC holder.

If you have a Class A LTC and the firearm (handgun) is loaded it has to be under your direct control.

If you have a Class B LTC your firearm (handgun) has to in a locked container or trunk.

If you're transporting a large capacity shotgun or rifle it also has to be in a locked container or trunk.

I don't see anything in there that says an unloaded firearm (handgun) transported by Class A LTC has to be in a locked container. If it is there could somebody point it out to me? Or if there is any case law interpreting it that way could somebody direct me to the case? Otherwise to me it looks like trigger locks for an unloaded handgun would be fine if you have a Class A LTC.

You are correct that under Chapter 140 Section 131C, it doesn't mention that you, as a Class A (unrestricted) LTC holder, need to unload and place in a locked container, your handgun if it's not under your direct control. However...

Scroll to near bottom of page, under "transporting firearms"

http://www.mass.gov/eopss/firearms-reg-and-laws/frb/frequently-asked-questions.html

 

[M1911]

Some of my soft cases have the small leather loop near the zipper when closed, some do not. Wouldn't be a bad idea anyhow, and I don't fault you for being tinny.

Exactly. I throw a small combination lock through that loop and the zipper.

 

[MisterHappy]

True. Was that you that coined that phrase? Someone on here coined it.

Yes.
But it's not copyrighted, feel free.

 

[PATRON]

I understand when you folks state the law,but when your on the side of road with ten cops running around,and your flat on the ground with officer numnuts knee in your back.All because you had a shotgun in the back seat of your car while you were driving,and someone was walking by saw it and called the cops.I tell all my students,I don't care what the law states lock everything in a case even if it's a BB gun.Don't give them any reason to have a pissing contest with you about MA. gun laws.