Does a trigger lock count as secured while transport?

[Neeko]

if i have a LTC-A ALP, can i throw a hand gun with a trigger lock on it in a duffel bag or back pack and drive to the range? i drive a jeep so i dont have a "trunk" and i know the glove box does not count.
Thank you

 

[GPP]

if i have a LTC-A ALP, can i throw a hand gun with a trigger lock on it in a duffel bag or back pack and drive to the range? i drive a jeep so i dont have a "trunk" and i know the glove box does not count.
Thank you

Good. God.

 

[The Anchor]

not another " registered user" too busy to use " the search tool".....Kudo's for finding NES, Now use that insight to "search" for your answer. please update this thread, once you find the answer.......GO

 

[GPP]

Or ask the guy you got your BFS certificate from.

 

[ThePreBanMan]

really - you posted in the Mass law section but couldn't be bothered to read any of the sticky threads on the topic in the same forum...

 

[Neeko]

alright alright im seaching....jeez
Sorry for asking a question on a message board

 

[EddieCoyle]

alright alright im seaching....jeez
Sorry for asking a question on a message board

Ignore the Junior Moderators.

The answer to your question is "No."

I drive a Jeep too, so I have the same problem. You can carry a handgun on you (loaded or unloaded) if you have an unrestricted LTC A. If not, or if you prefer not to carry it, you'll need to unload the gun and put it in a 'locked container'.

I put locked container in quotes because almost anything with a lock counts. If your duffel bag or backpack has a D-ring at the end of the zipper, you can put a luggage lock through the zipper and D-ring and you'll have a locked container.

There's no need to ever use a trigger lock during transport.

 

[Neeko]

Thank you for help sir, i did a search as the others kindly suggested but most were related to shotguns/rifles.
Good day

 

[bitwise]

Have a jeep as well. Bought a Gun Vault Nano for 25 bucks. Comes with a cable that I wrap around the mount under the seat.

 

[Len-2A Training]

not another " registered user" too busy to use " the search tool".....Kudo's for finding NES, Now use that insight to "search" for your answer. please update this thread, once you find the answer.......GO

Or ask the guy you got your BFS certificate from.

really - you posted in the Mass law section but couldn't be bothered to read any of the sticky threads on the topic in the same forum...

Almost nobody reads the stickies. No idea why I wasted so much time creating many of them.

Your BFS instructor was supposed to teach you the legal difference between "storage" and "transportation". Trigger locks are NEVER OK for transportation per MGLs (doesn't matter if rifle, shotgun, or handgun).

 

[MisterHappy]

Or ask the guy you got your BFS certificate from.

Unfortunately, there is no requirement that the BFS instructor tell a student about this. Merely to inform them about the laws. "Here's a pile of papers - enjoy!" meets the requirements. Our Club's training team devotes an hour or more to this subject; others do it differently. If one takes an Hunter Ed course, this may, or may not, have been covered, and the Hunter Ed course is valid for an LTC.

Newb question? Sure.
Should the OP have known? Yep.
Did the OP ask people that know the answer? Yep.

We may hate answering the same questions for the umpteenth time, so if you don't want to, don't post.

LenS, thanks for your cogent and polite answer.

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

That always made me laugh, I "lock" my bag going to the Marlboro show with 20 handguns in it with a combo luggage lock locking the two zippers together, even I could pull it off, or a quick slit with a knife and ...

but it is legal

 

[swatgig]

I know the glove box does not count.

That's not clear either.

From Commonwealth v Reyes, 464 Mass 245 (2013)

Because the jury's determination concerning whether a locked glove box within a locked motor vehicle qualifies as a securely "locked container" was central to the defense, the judge should have offered additional guidance regarding the term's meaning.

 

[DemonChronicles]

Ignore the Junior Moderators.

 

[jasons]

That's not clear either.

From Commonwealth v Reyes, 464 Mass 245 (2013)

And this, also from Reyes:

This does not resolve whether a locked glove compartment might be adequate under the storage statute. We are of the view that it might depending on the particular factual circumstances including the nature of the locking mechanism, whether the motor vehicle was also locked and alarmed, and ultimately whether in the circumstances it was adequate to “deter all but the most persistent from gaining access.” This is a question of fact, properly decided by the fact finder at trial.

and

Statutory and regulatory references to acceptable containers include safes,8 weapon boxes,9 locked cabinets,10 gun cases,11 lock boxes, and locked trunks of vehicles.12 A leading secondary source, Law Enforcement Guide to Firearms Law (20th ed. 2012), published by the Municipal Police Institute, Inc.,13 states that a securely locked container can include a soft gun case secured with a padlock, “as well as an expensive gun safe,” and that even “glass front furniture style gun cabinets are acceptable providing that they are capable of being locked.”

So according to Comm vs. Reyes, a gun cabinet with glass doors is OK as long as it has a lock but a locked glove compartment only "might" be OK depending on the determination of facts at a trial.

The defendant argues that the statute fails to make clear what qualifies as being “secured in a locked container,” leaving gun owners without guidance on how to store their firearms properly and law enforcement officials without criteria for knowing when the statute has been violated. Consequently, it is void for vagueness. We are not persuaded. The text, legislative history, related statutory and regulatory provisions, and other secondary materials reflect a common understanding at least as to a core set of containers that when used properly ensure gun owners that they are properly storing their firearms.

In other words, you have to get a determination of facts at a trial to determine whether or not a locked container actually qualifies as a "locked container," but the law isn't vague. Talk about mental gymnastics. The obvious solution here is to install a cabinet with locking glass doors in the back of your Jeep.

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

"all but the most persistent from gaining access" I wouldn't want to be the test case for a locked soft sided case!

 

[Coyote33]

OK, trigger locks are out. How about cable locks?

 

[jasons]

OK, trigger locks are out. How about cable locks?

For transport, no. For storage, yes. We've been over this once or twice.

 

[Coyote33]

Yeah, I imagine so.

There is so much bs and crap, you cannot remember everything, so you just do what feels right. Beats giving up entirely, or does it?

 

[Stumpthumper]

Neeko,
What they mean by locked and secured for that section of the statutes is locked/secured so some wandering idiot can't come by and take it. A trigger lock would not prevent the wandering idiot from taking it.

 

[jasons]

Neeko,
What they mean by locked and secured for that section of the statutes is locked/secured so some wandering idiot can't come by and take it. A trigger lock would not prevent the wandering idiot from taking it.

Do you often have people wandering up to your jeep while driving?

 

[Stumpthumper]

I don't own a jeep. I was trying to help the OP understand he law.

 

[jasons]

I don't own a jeep. I was trying to help the OP understand he law.

Which one?

 

[MisterHappy]

Neeko,
What they mean by locked and secured for that section of the statutes is locked/secured so some wandering idiot can't come by and take it. A trigger lock would not prevent the wandering idiot from taking it.

NO.

It is not an anti-theft statute. If you have a handgun in a locked case (for the sake of argument, a metal tool box with a padlock on it) in your jeep, just laying on the passenger seat, it is legal for transport. If you take said locked case into your house, and leave it on the couch, it is stored within the confines of the law.

A thief could just pick it up and walk off with it, but you will have violated no storage or transport laws. Your police chief might go all discretionary on you (as happened in Lowell, where the "Very secure" ( in the words of a cop) vault was breached), but you still would not have violated the law.

Is this a "smart" thing to do? Perhaps not. Many people would advocate that the box be secured to the vehicle, or secured to a permanent fixture of the house. But it is not a requirement that it be theft-proof.

The "all but the most persistent" language is not found anywhere in statute, AFAIK.

 

[Stumpthumper]

Seriously? What's with all the piss and vinegar on this site. I was talking about using the legislative intent to help understand what was good enough.

 

[MisterHappy]

You stated something as fact, which is not fact.

If you do not have a cite for a law, don't say what the law "intends".

This is what leads people to think that they have to have their AR cable-locked within a metal case for transport, and that ammo cannot be in the same locked container as an unloaded handgun for transport.

Is leaving a case with a gun in it loose in a jeep a good idea? No. But it's not unlawful.

 

[jasons]

Seriously? What's with all the piss and vinegar on this site. I was talking about using the legislative intent to help understand what was good enough.

Relax, it's just a little ribbing.

Seriously though, how was the legislative intent of the transportation statute to prevent someone from wandering by and taking a gun?

 

[Robert1]

Ignore the Junior Moderators.

The answer to your question is "No."

I drive a Jeep too, so I have the same problem. You can carry a handgun on you (loaded or unloaded) if you have an unrestricted LTC A. If not, or if you prefer not to carry it, you'll need to unload the gun and put it in a 'locked container'.

I put locked container in quotes because almost anything with a lock counts. If your duffel bag or backpack has a D-ring at the end of the zipper, you can put a luggage lock through the zipper and D-ring and you'll have a locked container.

There's no need to ever use a trigger lock during transport.

Darn confusing. Up to now, I thought a trigger lock, unloaded, in a car, (out of sight ) was o.k. for transportation. (i.e. if you park your car in front of the post office to drop something off)
I do add to it a cable lock around a solid part of the car, so they can not run off with the gun.
I just bought a few $10 safes from home depot, one for my car, one for my office, just to be on the safe side.
There seems to be nothing in the law that talks about safes being "anchored" but I will weld that thing into my trunk, if I can !

 

[ThePreBanMan]

Seriously? What's with all the piss and vinegar on this site. I was talking about using the legislative intent to help understand what was good enough.

Have you you not been here very much??? It's the NES way. Opinions are like ass holes..... Everyone has one...

 

[jasons]

Darn confusing. Up to now, I thought a trigger lock, unloaded, in a car, (out of sight ) was o.k. for transportation.

Lots of people do. Probably half the people who I see come by the club have trigger locks on their guns, which are inside an unlocked range bag.

Here's the actual law on transport:
https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section131C

Section 131C. (a) No person carrying a loaded firearm under a Class A license issued under section 131 or 131F shall carry the same in a vehicle unless such firearm while carried therein is under the direct control of such person. Whoever violates the provisions of this subsection shall be punished by a fine of $500.

(b) No person carrying a firearm under a Class B license issued under section 131 or 131F shall possess the same in a vehicle unless such weapon is unloaded and contained within the locked trunk of such vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container. Whoever violates the provisions of this subsection shall be punished by a fine of $500.

(c) No person possessing a large capacity rifle or shotgun under a Class A or Class B license issued under section 131 or 131F shall possess the same in a vehicle unless such weapon is unloaded and contained within the locked trunk of such vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container. Whoever violates the provisions of this subsection shall be punished by a fine of not less than $500 nor more than $5,000.

(d) The provisions of this section shall not apply to (i) any officer, agent or employee of the commonwealth or any state or the United States; (ii) any member of the military or other service of any state or of the United States; (iii) any duly authorized law enforcement officer, agent or employee of any municipality of the commonwealth; provided, however, that any such person described in clauses (i) to (iii), inclusive, is authorized by a competent authority to carry or possess the weapon so carried or possessed and is acting within the scope of his duties.

(e) A conviction of a violation of this section shall be reported forthwith by the court or magistrate to the licensing authority who shall immediately revoke the card or license of the person so convicted. No new such card or license may be issued to any such person until one year after the date of revocation.