Do Illegal Aliens have 2A Rights, SCOTUS to decide

ReluctantDecoy said:
I agree with the underlying notion, but the "We" and "people" in "We the people" is referring to US citizens. It was written as such to flex on England and the monarchy in a display of self-reliance and self-governance. So the Second Amendment also applies to citizens, even if it states "people".

That said, I can also see the benefit of expanding 2A rights however it may be expanded. My issue with this approach though is the continued blessing of citizen rights to non-citizens, most of which could be considered "illegal". How is it that some dude who barely speaks English, has never paid taxes, and refuses to acculturate ends up with some of the same citizen benefits as me who has done all of the above over decades? I don't want to sound Xenophobic, and I do keep an open mind to actual immigration, but where's the line? To me, it should be immigration through legal means, naturalization, then congrats fellow American, here's a gun! I could even see legit green card/H1 visa holders being included.
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Illegal aliens are "fugitives from justice." As such they are prohibited persons.
Immigrants here in an immigration visa, as well as green card holders, are eligible to keep and bear arms as any US citizen.
Requiring a citizen to have a permanent address in a state is also a constitutional violation. It discriminates against people that move around due to a job. Also discriminates against the homeless.
 
fishgutzy said:
Illegal aliens are "fugitives from justice." As such they are prohibited persons.
Immigrants here in an immigration visa, as well as green card holders, are eligible to keep and bear arms as any US citizen.
Requiring a citizen to have a permanent address in a state is also a constitutional violation. It discriminates against people that move around due to a job. Also discriminates against the homeless.
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Those who move around job to job and the "homeless" never seem to have any issue providing an address to receive a government check or have a benefits bank account replenished.

How do they get a bank account without a mailing address? Using a mail drop box?

I'm pretty sure some form of formal, state issued ID or a driver's license is required to open a bank account also.
 
drgrant said:
.

Lol, so you're now pivoting to "because the guy with the gun says its the law, we must follow it" [rofl]

Lol lots of people don't follow shit laws, thats not exactly new. I'm sure you stop for the full 3 seconds at every stop sign, in the middle of the night, or always stay at least 1mph below the speed limit. [laugh] Ir
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And your saying illegal immigration is a shit law akin to not stopping at a stop sign?

Thats the problem.

Cut the crap, you act like your some kind of sovereign citizen that is not following most of the laws and your special. Well like I said before if you arent paying your taxes and following laws and arent in jail yet. I want in.

Until then we are a society built on laws made by people we elect to make them. You included, that gun is held in front of you to follow laws the just as it is me.

Yes indeed some of them stupid. If you believe immigration laws are stupid and shouldnt be followed then we just differ in opinion. But someday that thinking will dilute the sovereignty of this country if it already hasnt.

Peace out
 
Mark from MA said:
And your saying illegal immigration is a shit law akin to not stopping at a stop sign?

Thats the problem.

Cut the crap, you act like your some kind of sovereign citizen that is not following most of the laws and your special. Well like I said before if you arent paying your taxes and following laws and arent in jail yet. I want in.

Until then we are a society built on laws made by people we lect to make them. You included. Yes indeed some of them stupid. If you believe immigration laws are stupid and shouldnt be followed then we just differ in opinion. But someday that thinking will dilute the sovereignty of this country if it already hasnt.

Peace out
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Lol you were the one who went into the weeds about "following laws" not me. I'm not the one who attempted a cringy pivot. So all i could do is /guess/ that you were trying some appeal to authority thing. [rofl]

ETA: I never saud anything specifically about immigration laws. Simply that some laws are stupid. Remember the original issue here? This is more of a gun law issue than of immigration.
 
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drgrant said:
Lol you were the one who went into the weeds about "following laws" not me. I'm not the one who attempted a cringy pivot. So all i could do is /guess/ that you were trying some appeal to authority thing. [rofl]

ETA: I never saud anything specifically about immigration laws. Simply that some laws are stupid. Remember the original issue here? This is more of a gun law issue than of immigration.
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​

Do Illegal Aliens have 2A Rights, SCOTUS to decide​


Looks to me like they are inextricably entwined according to the case at hand.
 
greencobra said:
i didn't read back through all my posts but i don't recall saying i DON'T WANT THEM TO OWN guns. i'm saying if i...and legal green carded citizens, need to have our ducks in a row for firearm ownership, why give that to, well basically...a criminal. which they became when they skirted the immigration system and just walked across the border and disappeared. there's laws in place for a reason regarding immigration. hey, there's laws on the books regarding taxes. i don't like them, but i pay them. but lets let everyone in along the southern border? it scares the hell out of me that millions of people from lawless 3rd and 4th world central/south american and african countries stream across the border and will be allowed to legally have a gun. they've lived their lives to this point not having to answer to laws, why start now.
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Instead of saying, "If I dont get to have it, THEY shouldnt have it either", you should be saying, "If they have it, I want it too."

Same goes for wages when you see minimum wage go up 5% year after year. Inflation is at 6%. You're stuck at your 1% - 2% raise. Demand your raise at the same 5% or more. Ask your boss why he's charging more for service/products but your wage virtually stays the same. If you don't get your raise, there are plenty of openings elsewhere. Or you may be happy with your loss of purchase power?
 
dixidawg said:
How could the SCOTUS rule that illegals have the right to carry, but I as a citizen does NOT have the right to carry in NY? or NJ? And on and on…
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Easy, they don't fear being hanged, they're well protected.
 
03KnockKnock said:
The ability to own a firearm is a natural human right, regardless of citizenship or country of residence. The mere act of owning/possessing a firearm doesn't effect anybody else, and so it should be allowed even for illegal immigrants (unlike voting, which does effect other people).
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I think many here have missed this point. If the WORST of "us" are constitutionally protected to carrying a weapon, we ALL are constitutionally protected to carry a weapon.

The discussion here appears as follows:

"Would you like Coke or Pepsi?"

"Dunkin Donuts coffee f'ing sucks and you know it. Starbucks is overpriced. They all suck."

"OK, but Coke or Pepsi."

"I don't get you. So you think it's ok to drink Dunkin coffee??? You freaking communist!"

"Look, do you want Coke. Or Pepsi????"

"I'm shocked your mom was smart enough even to breed. You are so stupid. If you can't see this is about how bad Dunkin coffee is, you're more lost than you could ever imagine."

ROFL!!!!
 
If you enter the Country illegally you broke the law. Whatever gun rights are lost to those who have broken a law should be equally applied to all of that group of people. Certainly the severity of the infraction weighs on the penalty but again as long as the penalty is equal to all across the board that should be the case.

A legal immigrant, not yet a citizen, has 2A rights for sure. At least in my mind. Voting rights no but 2A yes.
 
Uzi2 said:

​

Do Illegal Aliens have 2A Rights, SCOTUS to decide​


Looks to me like they are inextricably entwined according to the case at hand.
Click to expand...

Not "immigration law" though, per se.

The BS nostrum of prohibited persons has always been some shitty gun law thing, mostly. I'm not sure if it was created as part of gca 68 or there's some history that goes way before that.
 
I'm only on page 3, and I will finish the thread.

However, at this time in my life, I've come to the conclusion that there are no such things as "rights". There are no inherent ground rules or conditions just because you are alive. For those that believe, God didn't grant us anything other than our lives.

What we call "rights" are really freedoms and respect won with spilt blood over the milennia. At least life in the modern era has mechanisms where we don't have to kill to earn and keep those freedoms anymore --- most of the time.

But if we don't use those bloodless mechanisms, then the day will come where we (freedom loving individuals) will HAVE to spill blood, or it will be our blood that is spilled.

Jefferson summed it up so eloquently. "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
 
If you are not safe enough to carry then you shouldn't be in public
An illegal shouldn't go to jail for peacefully possessing a firearm, they should be deported for illegal trespass

The 2nd protects the inalienable right to life and liberty of a person through the means to protect those rights. It doesn't matter that other countries don't recognize that every peaceful person holds the right, the US is founded on those principles and is nothing special unless it recognizes those rights in every person.
Bringing voting into the conversation is a red herring - voting is not an inalienable right, it is a right of citizenship.
 
Admin said:
Self defense aside, I'm pretty clear that any human should be able to defend themselves. That being said, why do we tolerate illegals again?

Let me guess, they fell in to the US?

If some of you retards can't see this is nothing more than the socialists trying to give illegals voting rights, JFC how many times do you need to be punched in the dick to figure it out. They play the long game, stop playing the f-ing game.

If Texas flips its over... The 2nd Amendment wont be there anymore. Play their game and white knight some more, thats worked so well for the past 60 years.
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People look at all the baby steps and say "whats the big deal?" until it is a big deal then they say "welp, nothing we can do now"
 
Dench said:
Is citizenship required to serve in the militia?
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Nope.

"The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard."
 
fishgutzy said:
Illegal aliens are "fugitives from justice." As such they are prohibited persons.
Immigrants here in an immigration visa, as well as green card holders, are eligible to keep and bear arms as any US citizen.
Click to expand...
This is an entirely valid argument and an intelligent observation.
Very much worthy of consideration.
 
Embrace the power of "and": Illegal aliens have the right to keep and bear arms AND they must be fined and deported immediately when caught. They can bear their arms in their own miserable countries for all it concerns us.
 
StevieP said:
Just my humble opinion. "Citizens" have rights. Mere "residents" do not.
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so, "residents" don't have 4th Amendment or 5th amendment rights? what about 1st amendment rights? what about "legal residents" or "green card holders?" Do they get the rights contained in the USC? What about foreigners traveling here legally for vacations or temporary work assignments? I don't remember anywhere in the USC stating these rights belong only to "citizens." And that pesky 6th amendment? That one shouldn't be granted to anyone but us "citizens?"
 
ReluctantDecoy said:
I agree with the underlying notion, but the "We" and "people" in "We the people" is referring to US citizens. It was written as such to flex on England and the monarchy in a display of self-reliance and self-governance. So the Second Amendment also applies to citizens, even if it states "people".

That said, I can also see the benefit of expanding 2A rights however it may be expanded. My issue with this approach though is the continued blessing of citizen rights to non-citizens, most of which could be considered "illegal". How is it that some dude who barely speaks English, has never paid taxes, and refuses to acculturate ends up with some of the same citizen benefits as me who has done all of the above over decades? I don't want to sound Xenophobic, and I do keep an open mind to actual immigration, but where's the line? To me, it should be immigration through legal means, naturalization, then congrats fellow American, here's a gun! I could even see legit green card/H1 visa holders being included.
Click to expand...
I disagree. As soon as a person landed on US soil (after the formation of the US) they would have been afforded all the rights guaranteed by the Bill of Rights. Remember, initially we didn't have these immigration laws we have today. "Aliens" - those born in foreign countries, were still allowed to speak freely, practice their religion, assemble peacefully, carry a firearm and enjoy all the other rights as "citizens" of the US. There was no "dividing line" of privilege. I would argue that is one of the very things the American Revolution was about as English society was very much a classist society where one had certain rights based on what class they belonged to.
 

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