Denying a constitutional right due to age. This lawsuit might actually have merit.

[SpaceCritter]

At the base where I was stationed, the EM club had a "Must be 18" sign over the bar.
I never followed the rule, since I felt it was unfair to me, the only 17 year old sailor on the base.
I did get yelled at, on my 18th Birthday, when I asked for my "Free Champagne Birthday Bottle", and had to show my ID.

Heh - I know the feeling. I was 17 my first year at college. A lot of shit I probably shouldn't have legally done, I did, since everyone just assumes if you're at college you're >=18. I was also the only 20-year-old grad student/TA in my department, if not the whole place, thus the only one who couldn't legally drink... not that it stopped me any.

 

[Horrible]

I wonder how the liberals woul feel about raising the voting age to 21

I think that you can guess since they lose their $hit about voter id but want extensive background checks above and beyond what is already required and have to get all kinds of permits to exercise one's 2A rights!!

 

[MichaelJames1971]

LOL not sure if serious the UCMJ is another layer of stuff, that doesn't automatically preclude you from being subject to regular "civilian" laws at the same time, nor does it really grant you any privileges or rights you wouldn't have had normally. If anything the UCMJ is "another layer of things you can't do legally while in the service."

-Mike

Correct - if the Base Commander says "no personally-owned Firearms on-base", guess what - no guns. If the Base Commander says - "no alcohol", guess what, no booze. Nobody calls their lawyer and screams 'my rights'! or does what they please.....and no one here complains about it, so....

 

[Horrible]

1971. Right about the time we were sending 18-year-olds to Vietnam but not letting them vote against the politicians who sent them.

I had been thinking that we should raise it back to 21 if we're so insistent that they remain "kids" until 21. Upon reflection of the above I think that if you can be drafted you should be able to vote, have a beer, and buy a gun.

Kind of sounds like sending 18 year olds going to fight in shit-bag-o-stan or some other third world craphole to fight terrorists with full auto SAWs or 50-cals and such and then telling them when they get back that they are too young to buy a bolt action or pump shotgun to defend their home!

 

[MichaelJames1971]

So if it’s 18 , what quote are you going by, flip or flop?

I'm pretty sure if a LCB person found an 18-Year-Old Marine having a beer at my drinking establishment, my license would get yanked so fast the windows would blow out. NO WAY I'm risking my business license to serve underage Military folks if doing-so runs afoul of State Liquor laws. People who try and rely on some Civil Servant's 'patriotism' to skirt the law have no idea what kind of power-trip those people are on. If 18 year old Marines want to imbibe, the base Enlisted Club can serve them and take the risk.

I've known quite a few Retired NCOs in my 'travels', and the most headaches they all had to deal-with in the Service were caused by boozing troops, and the mayhem they caused the Unit and themselves. If it happened, 'on-base' was the safest place of all for those things to happen - it could be controlled 'in-house', and cops wouldn't be involved.

 

[eboos]

Correct - if the Base Commander says "no personally-owned Firearms on-base", guess what - no guns.

While in CONUS, I do not recall ever being on a base where there was a prohibition on personal firearm ownership. Granted, you may be prohibited from taking personal firearms with you while on temporary training assignments (boot camp, MOS school, etc.) but when you are permanently stationed somewhere, your firearms go with you. If you live in the barracks, you must keep your personal firearms in the armory as well as other items (I once pissed off my Sgt. Maj who notified me I had to check in a K-Bar that was in a plaque during a barracks inspection. The next inspection he saw it replaced with a butter knife). Off base housing is governed by state law. On base housing... I don't know.

 

[MichaelJames1971]

While in CONUS, I do not recall ever being on a base where there was a prohibition on personal firearm ownership. Granted, you may be prohibited from taking personal firearms with you while on temporary training assignments (boot camp, MOS school, etc.) but when you are permanently stationed somewhere, your firearms go with you. If you live in the barracks, you must keep your personal firearms in the armory as well as other items (I once pissed off my Sgt. Maj who notified me I had to check in a K-Bar that was in a plaque during a barracks inspection. The next inspection he saw it replaced with a butter knife). Off base housing is governed by state law. On base housing... I don't know.

What was the new base policy after the Ft. Hood mass-shooting? My recollection was, NO personal firearms on-base, period. That may have been for Ft. Hood only. My point is, each Base Commander has the discretion of deciding these things if he/she so chooses. Enlisted folks only get the privileges the Base CO allows them to have - if something becomes a problem, the 'privilege' ends, no matter what the Constitution says.

 

[EMTDAD]

my thoughts on this, is that if a business denies a legal, routine service to anyone solely based on age, it's age discrimination. A business cannot simply deny serving you based on your age, IF the law says it's allowable.

Now, with alcohol, the law says 21. If a liquor store said they'd no longer sell hard liquor to anyone under 25, that would be age discrimination.
If a convenience store denied selling tobacco to someone over 18 but not yet 25, that would also be age discrimination.
If a car dealer refused to sell that 60 yr old midlife crisis guy a Vette, because he's 60, that's age discrimination.

It's discrimination because the store's policy violates the standard set by the law. This has NOTHING to do with the Constitution.

The fact that car rental companies do it, is likely because there is no LEGAL age defined to rent a car. So car rental companies can come up with their own policies. Personally, I don't see why not if the person renting has valid DL and insurance. But hey.. there's no LAW promulgated showing an age threshold for car rental.

JMHO.. IANAL

 

[ToddDubya]

ALL OF A SUDDEN....we're "champions" of Millennials around here???

What alternative Universe did I just enter? Most morons under-21 can't remember to change out of their PJs when in-public, and are chomping on Tide-pods to get high. Fun-Fact: if you were to poll the under-21 crowd today, they're universally in-favor of a repeal of 2A in its entirety, and they'll vote for any politician that will do it. Yes, you read that right - they WANT their rights stripped from them - oblige them.

I'm fine with a blanket 21-or-older National policy - for ANYTHING.

Until you're 21, I don't want to SEE you, I don't want to HEAR you, I don't want to LOOK at you - in a gun store, in a voting booth, in a bar/club, ANYWHERE. You wanna "play adult"? Join the Marine Corps.

The pushback you're seeing is from the pro freedom crowd, not the pro Millennial crowd. If an 18 year old who lives in his mom's basement wants to buy an AR and spoon it while wearing a spaghetti strainer on his head and writing a segment for Oprah about how terrible all men are, he has every right to do that. I don't agree with most of that, but that's not really any of my business.

Everyone has a right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness, so long as it doesn't interfere with anyone else's right to Life, Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness.

Vito Corleone put it best when he said to Sollozzo "... and I wish to congratulate you on your new business, and I know you'll do very well; and good luck to you, as best as your interests don't conflict with my interests. Thank you."

 

[ISOTOX]

If a company (in Oregon) can be forced to bake a cake for a gay wedding, why wouldn't Dick's be forced to sell a rifle to a 20-year old if he passes background checks and is not a PP?

That was a full retard ruling....

 

[MichaelJames1971]

The pushback you're seeing is from the pro freedom crowd, not the pro Millennial crowd. If an 18 year old who lives in his mom's basement wants to buy an AR and spoon it while wearing a spaghetti strainer on his head and writing a segment for Oprah about how terrible all men are, he has every right to do that. I don't agree with most of that, but that's not really any of my business.

Everyone has a right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness, so long as it doesn't interfere with anyone else's right to Life, Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness.

Vito Corleone put it best when he said to Sollozzo "... and I wish to congratulate you on your new business, and I know you'll do very well; and good luck to you, as best as your interests don't conflict with my interests. Thank you."

My point is, the youngsters don't know the value of "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness", so they support politicians who would gladly strip ALL OF US of it "for their safety".

Oblige them. Strip kids of EVERYTHING. You're not doing them, or yourself any favors otherwise.

There's a saying - you don't know what you've got until it's gone. Absence makes the heart grow fonder, and all that. This is how you teach these folks to value their rights and freedoms - they won't learn until Washington treats them like utter children. And why not? Their helicopter parents have failed to prepare them for adulthood or personal responsibility, their schools don't teach them what their rights and freedoms are (or what value they have). If they demand that 'something be done' about mass-shootings, strip them of ALL their rights until 21 years of age. There - we've "done something".

 

[NFD9]

My point is, the youngsters don't know the value of "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness", so they support politicians who would gladly strip ALL OF US of it "for their safety".

Especially when the (youngsters) only political issue/concern for them is being able to smoke pot legally...

 

[Rob Boudrie]

... wants to buy an AR and spoon it while wearing a spaghetti strainer on his head and writing a segment for Oprah about how terrible all men are, he has every right to do that. I don't agree with most of that, but that's not really any of my business.

What do you have against the Pastafarian religion?

 

[whacko]

I'm sure rental car companies have been doing that for years.

two problems with this statement imo

1. There is no constitutional recognition of ones right to rent a car
2. car rental companies are "loaning" their property to someone.....I'd argue they have a right to decide who they loan their property too. In the case walmart and dicks this is refusing to sell someone that is legal to own it based on a biased and discriminatory practice.

just my 2 cents

 

[whacko]

As long as they don’t deny a gay themed wedding cake. That is illegal.

be interesting to see how this plays out in the public opinion. Wonder how many lefty loonies support the courts decision against that baker and will be on Walmart's side in this case. That's the problem with lefty loonies........they only support the rights they agree with.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

Add Michigan:
Michigan Lawsuit Against Dick's Sporting Goods for Age Discrimination in Gun Sales

My question: Doesn't Dick Sporting Goods have a legal department? I'd think a company with stores nationwide would realize that age discrimination might be illegal in some states, would quickly review what those states might be, and would then simply set up a policy that excludes them. True, the companies are presumably trying to make a public statement with their no-gun-sales-to-under-21-year-olds policy; but that statement shouldn't be much diluted by an exception for some states when the explanation for the exception is that they have to comply with the law. And now the news is shifting to "Dick's Sporting Goods being sued for illegal discrimination" instead of "Dick's Sporting Goods is taking a stand to try to prevent gun crime," which was presumably Dick's goal.

It looks like Massachusetts anti-discrimination law does not cover age related discrimination - I checked. Somehow, they missed that.

 

[whacko]

There is so much raving about "disctimination" now days that people lose track of the fact that only certain types of discrimination are protected by law.

This person's argument is the same as arguing that Dicks would be violating someone's rights by not allowing customers to wear T-Shirts with the word "Jews" covered by a red circle with a diagonal line.
Racial discrimination is prohibited by law. Private merchandise sales are not.

Then how did the court rule against the baker in the gay wedding cake case?

 

[GM-GUY]

That was a full retard ruling....

It's time to beat their asses with it or wake up some sheep that there are two sets of rules.

 

[whacko]

What was the new base policy after the Ft. Hood mass-shooting? My recollection was, NO personal firearms on-base, period. That may have been for Ft. Hood only. My point is, each Base Commander has the discretion of deciding these things if he/she so chooses. Enlisted folks only get the privileges the Base CO allows them to have - if something becomes a problem, the 'privilege' ends, no matter what the Constitution says.

Every base I've been on in the last 10 years or so is that you can't "carry" a personally owned fire arm on base. If you own fire arms and are in base housing generally they need to be checked in and checked out of your units arms room when you use them to go hunting/range use etc.

Only exception to this was camp Robertson in Arkansas. Base commander policy was keep em unloaded and in your personally owned vehicle or housing. no carry of loaded fire arms.

 

[whacko]

If a company (in Oregon) can be forced to bake a cake for a gay wedding, why wouldn't Dick's be forced to sell a rifle to a 20-year old if he passes background checks and is not a PP?

We need to take the "gay cake" ruling and stuff it right up the liberals asses on this one!

 

[tuna]

Every base I've been on in the last 10 years or so is that you can't "carry" a personally owned fire arm on base. If you own fire arms and are in base housing generally they need to be checked in and checked out of your units arms room when you use them to go hunting/range use etc.

Only exception to this was camp Robertson in Arkansas. Base commander policy was keep em unloaded and in your personally owned vehicle or housing. no carry of loaded fire arms.

Actually, the rule was you “may not” carry. I could, and did, and would have been punished if caught.
We also “may not” mail booze overseas, or have a still while deployed. Lol

After Ft Hood, the push was to allow carry on base. That is going by the wayside as commanders feel their troops can’t be trusted, which just makes us continue to break rules.

 

[JJ4]

NSSF Factsheet on state laws that prohibit age discrimination:

https://www.nssf.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Age-Discrimination-Laws-2018.pdf

 

[TheoC]

My two cents is that if the government is going to make 18 yr olds register for selective service, potentially draft them, allow them to enlist, train them to fight, and allow them to die for our county by the thousands, they should also be able to buy a drink or buy a gun. My opinion on this hasn't changed in 50 years.

I've known many 18 and 19 year old service members who have their $ht together far better than many so-called "adults" that are much older.

I hope this guy in Oregon is successful in his age discrimination suit!

 

[In God We Trust]

The libertarian side of me says they can do what they want being a private enterprise. Who the F buys guns at a big box store anyway? You should be supporting your LGS. The other part of me says "F them" and I hope the kid wins a huge settlement that puts Dick's out of business. If they can make a guy bake a f***ing wedding cake, then the sword cuts both ways.

If they want to raise the age to buy a gun, I'm ok with it so long as they change the law completely to make the legal age of adulthood 21. No voting, no joining the military or signing legal contracts, etc. If you are going to do it, be consistent.

 

[MisterHappy]

I'm not going to get my shorts in a twist if a business says "NO" to selling anything to someone younger than 21 - I don't care what it is. Let's all collectively stop fussing about it. These kids, the majority of them, don't care.

Will you feel the same, when the age is 25? 30? Gotta need bifocals?

Just because "the majority....don't care," does not make it right. Imagine if the majority said, "Turn 'em in." Would your shorts be twisted, then?

 

[watchman]

Will you feel the same, when the age is 25? 30? Gotta need bifocals.

Just because "the majority....don't care," does not make it right. Imagine if the majority said, "Turn 'em in." Would your shorts be twisted, then?

MichaelJames1971 would be pissed if it affected him nothing like being one way MichaelJames1971 turn in your man card

 

[MichaelJames1971]

Will you feel the same, when the age is 25? 30? Gotta need bifocals?

Just because "the majority....don't care," does not make it right. Imagine if the majority said, "Turn 'em in." Would your shorts be twisted, then?

Unless you DRASTICALLY re-engage the youth of this Country, and change their minds about 2A RIGHT NOW, the majority will be demanding that you do, in-fact, "Turn 'em in", because they will be the majority eventually and they will vote your people out. "the majority" still gets to decide things, and pro-2a poll numbers for the under-21 demographic doesn't look too good right now....funny things is, that demographic also have parents, and I'll bet that they vote, too....I don't see any serious outreach to change hearts and minds with those folks, you and others are still digging the same trenches. If Rubio loses his job, will you wake up then?

Mark my words - selling guns to under-21 children might not be the hill you want to die on. That National AWB might reach Trump's desk before too long...you sure you know how he'll vote? I don't think you do.....not anymore.

 

[ScottS]

Unless you DRASTICALLY re-engage the youth of this Country, and change their minds about 2A RIGHT NOW, the majority will be demanding that you do, in-fact, "Turn 'em in", because they will be the majority eventually and they will vote your people out. "the majority" still gets to decide things, and pro-2a poll numbers for the under-21 demographic doesn't look too good right now....funny things is, that demographic also have parents, and I'll bet that they vote, too....I don't see any serious outreach to change hearts and minds with those folks, you and others are still digging the same trenches. If Rubio loses his job, will you wake up then?

Mark my words - selling guns to under-21 children might not be the hill you want to die on. That National AWB might reach Trump's desk before too long...you sure you know how he'll vote? I don't think you do.....not anymore.

For what it's worth, I ran an NRA BOPS course this weekend which included 3 fine young former Marines who were, as under-21 children deployed into some heavy shit in Iraq and Afghanistan. Please stop using that term.

 

[Fishfinder]

NSSF Fact Sheet on Age Discrimination Laws | What FFLs Need to Know

 

[42!]

belongs here
FFL’s and age discrimination laws.