Denying a constitutional right due to age. This lawsuit might actually have merit.

[CrackPot]

"They can't set their own age limit because the statute has already done that," Hargreaves says. "They don't have any authority because the statute specifically says you can't as a merchant discriminate against either young people or old people. If you're selling something you have to sell it to anyone who is entitled to buy it by law."

"The legislature makes the determination of what the age limit is for doing things—they said 21 for drinking and 18 for buying guns," he says. "If you're a general merchant you don't get to change that because that's the job of the legislature."

Do Oregon courts have the same "cuz gunz" doctrine that MA courts apply to all gun cases. This will be very interesting to watch.

 

[JJ4]

The amendment became part of the Constitution on July 1, 1971

1971. Right about the time we were sending 18-year-olds to Vietnam but not letting them vote against the politicians who sent them.

I had been thinking that we should raise it back to 21 if we're so insistent that they remain "kids" until 21. Upon reflection of the above I think that if you can be drafted you should be able to vote, have a beer, and buy a gun.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

When you agree to go to a college you are giving them consent for certain things. If you live on campus they may have the right to search the dorms but can not search your residence if you live off campus. It’s not an age issue.

Students have greater protection against search on campuses where the police have sworn officer status, as all search warrant requirements apply.

 

[robjax]

1971. Right about the time we were sending 18-year-olds to Vietnam but not letting them vote against the politicians who sent them.

I had been thinking that we should raise it back to 21 if we're so insistent that they remain "kids" until 21. Upon reflection of the above I think that if you can be drafted you should be able to vote, have a beer, and buy a gun.

I didn't paste that part but I believe this was one of, if not the main reason for the amendment. And if you are old enough to go to war and potentially be killed for your country you should be able to buy and darn firearm you want.

 

[JohnZ]

Tough one. He might have a case based on age discrimination, but I believe FFLs have the right to deny sales to anyone they feel like, they don’t HAVE to sell a gun to someone they feel are suspicious for example.

They don't feel that everyone under 21 is suspicious though (at least I have not seen them say that.)

What if they decided not to sell to anyone who is black?

 

[snax]

The gov't has everybody by the balls. They have no problem denying any constitutional right to anyone on an individual basis. Costs too much to challenge. They use that fear to keep the,rest in line.

 

[Glockster30]

"They can't set their own age limit because the statute has already done that," Hargreaves says. "They don't have any authority because the statute specifically says you can't as a merchant discriminate against either young people or old people. If you're selling something you have to sell it to anyone who is entitled to buy it by law."

"The legislature makes the determination of what the age limit is for doing things—they said 21 for drinking and 18 for buying guns," he says. "If you're a general merchant you don't get to change that because that's the job of the legislature."

Except in MA, where it is the "job of the AG" to stop sales of AR15s to all ages!

 

[Rob Boudrie]

There is so much raving about "disctimination" now days that people lose track of the fact that only certain types of discrimination are protected by law.

This person's argument is the same as arguing that Dicks would be violating someone's rights by not allowing customers to wear T-Shirts with the word "Jews" covered by a red circle with a diagonal line.

What if they decided not to sell to anyone who is black?

Racial discrimination is prohibited by law. Private merchandise sales are not.

 

[Fishfinder]

There is so much raving about "disctimination" now days that people lose track of the fact that only certain types of discrimination are protected by law.

This person's argument is the same as arguing that Dicks would be violating someone's rights by not allowing customers to wear T-Shirts with the word "Jews" covered by a red circle with a diagonal line.
Racial discrimination is prohibited by law. Private merchandise sales are not.

Age discrimination is illegal by Oregon law. That’s the issue.

 

[ScottS]

There is so much raving about "disctimination" now days that people lose track of the fact that only certain types of discrimination are protected by law.

This person's argument is the same as arguing that Dicks would be violating someone's rights by not allowing customers to wear T-Shirts with the word "Jews" covered by a red circle with a diagonal line.
Racial discrimination is prohibited by law. Private merchandise sales are not.

All true, except he's challenging it specifically in Oregon, which defines "age" as a class protected by law. Certainly this wasn't by accident.

 

[Fishfinder]

For Dicks sporting goods to not sell a product to someone due to their age,( except age restrictions already put in place by the legislature), is illegal.

Discrimination in Public Accommodation
A place of public accommodation is defined in state law as any place that offers the public accommodations, advantages, facilities or privileges, whether in the nature of goods, services, lodging, amusements or otherwise. It is illegal to discriminate in places of public accommodation on the basis of race, sex (including pregnancy), sexual orientation, national origin, religion, marital status, physical or mental disability, or age (18 years of age and older).

Civil Rights Division ENFORCING CIVIL RIGHTS LAWS

 

[ScottS]

Age discrimination is illegal by Oregon law. That’s the issue.

I'm beat to the punch again.

I need to learn to type faster.

 

[MichaelJames1971]

Sale of cigarettes and alcohol as well.

ONE age of majority has to be established for everything.

I wonder how the liberals woul feel about raising the voting age to 21

ALL OF A SUDDEN....we're "champions" of Millennials around here???

What alternative Universe did I just enter? Most morons under-21 can't remember to change out of their PJs when in-public, and are chomping on Tide-pods to get high. Fun-Fact: if you were to poll the under-21 crowd today, they're universally in-favor of a repeal of 2A in its entirety, and they'll vote for any politician that will do it. Yes, you read that right - they WANT their rights stripped from them - oblige them.

I'm fine with a blanket 21-or-older National policy - for ANYTHING.

Until you're 21, I don't want to SEE you, I don't want to HEAR you, I don't want to LOOK at you - in a gun store, in a voting booth, in a bar/club, ANYWHERE. You wanna "play adult"? Join the Marine Corps.

 

[Fishfinder]

ALL OF A SUDDEN....we're "champions" of Millennials around here???

What alternative Universe did I just enter? Most morons under-21 can't remember to change out of their PJs when in-public, and are chomping on Tide-pods to get high. Fun-Fact: if you were to poll the under-21 crowd today, they're universally in-favor of a repeal of 2A in its entirety, and they'll vote for any politician that will do it. Yes, you read that right - they WANT their rights stripped from them - oblige them.

I'm fine with a blanket 21-or-older National policy - for ANYTHING.

Until you're 21, I don't want to SEE you, I don't want to HEAR you, I don't want to LOOK at you - in a gun store, in a voting booth, in a bar/club, ANYWHERE. You wanna "play adult"? Join the Marine Corps.

I’m all for that but as of now, that’s not the case.

 

[SpaceCritter]

ALL OF A SUDDEN....we're "champions" of Millennials around here???

What alternative Universe did I just enter? Most morons under-21 can't remember to change out of their PJs when in-public, and are chomping on Tide-pods to get high. Fun-Fact: if you were to poll the under-21 crowd today, they're universally in-favor of a repeal of 2A in its entirety, and they'll vote for any politician that will do it. Yes, you read that right - they WANT their rights stripped from them - oblige them.

I'm fine with a blanket 21-or-older National policy - for ANYTHING.

Until you're 21, I don't want to SEE you, I don't want to HEAR you, I don't want to LOOK at you - in a gun store, in a voting booth, in a bar/club, ANYWHERE. You wanna "play adult"? Join the Marine Corps.

Methinks you're confusing Millennials with Zyklons. My cousin's son is of the latter, and IS joining the Marine Corps, as luck would have it.

 

[MichaelJames1971]

I’m all for that but as of now, that’s not the case.

I'm not going to get my shorts in a twist if a business says "NO" to selling anything to someone younger than 21 - I don't care what it is. Let's all collectively stop fussing about it. These kids, the majority of them, don't care.

 

[Fishfinder]

I'm not going to get my shorts in a twist if a business says "NO" to selling anything to someone younger than 21 - I don't care what it is. Let's all collectively stop fussing about it. These kids, the majority of them, don't care.

It’s about bringing double standards out into the open to prevent them from happening in the future. That is important.

 

[W.E.C]

Age discrimination is illegal by Oregon law. That’s the issue.

Good job, you focused in on the statute,
Bringing in the 2A and the specific product denied would cloud the case.

 

[W.E.C]

ALL OF A SUDDEN....we're "champions" of Millennials around here???

What alternative Universe did I just enter? Most morons under-21 can't remember to change out of their PJs when in-public, and are chomping on Tide-pods to get high. Fun-Fact: if you were to poll the under-21 crowd today, they're universally in-favor of a repeal of 2A in its entirety, and they'll vote for any politician that will do it. Yes, you read that right - they WANT their rights stripped from them - oblige them.

I'm fine with a blanket 21-or-older National policy - for ANYTHING.

Until you're 21, I don't want to SEE you, I don't want to HEAR you, I don't want to LOOK at you - in a gun store, in a voting booth, in a bar/club, ANYWHERE. You wanna "play adult"? Join the Marine Corps.

So an 18 y.o. Marine walks into your bar, you serving him?

 

[MichaelJames1971]

So an 18 y.o. Marine walks into your bar, you serving him?

What does the Institution who grants me my liquor license say? There's your answer....

 

[MichaelJames1971]

It’s about bringing double standards out into the open to prevent them from happening in the future. That is important.

We don't need 'double standards', we need ONE STANDARD - Under 21? You get NUTHIN'. Tell them to suck it.

 

[ScottS]

I'm fine with a blanket 21-or-older National policy - for ANYTHING.

Until you're 21, I don't want to SEE you, I don't want to HEAR you, I don't want to LOOK at you - in a gun store, in a voting booth, in a bar/club, ANYWHERE. You wanna "play adult"? Join the Marine Corps.

But...not until you're 21, right?

It's either all or none. If you think everything should be 18, or everything should be 21, then we can probably discuss the relative merits. It's the "18 for this but 21 for that" where I have a problem.

Are there other rights we deny based on age? "You have a right to an attorney, but not until age 21?"

 

[MichaelJames1971]

But...not until you're 21, right?

It's either all or none. If you think everything should be 18, or everything should be 21, then we can probably discuss the relative merits. It's the "18 for this but 21 for that" where I have a problem.

Are there other rights we deny based on age? "You have a right to an attorney, but not until age 21?"

It's my understanding that once you're in the service, you fall-under the UCMJ's jurisdiction. Uncle Sam has a variety of 'limits' placed upon service-members we're all fine-with, I see no reason why any of that would have to change.

 

[drgrant]

It's my understanding that once you're in the service, you fall-under the UCMJ's jurisdiction. Uncle Sam has a variety of 'limits' placed upon service-members we're all fine-with, I see no reason why any of that would have to change.

LOL not sure if serious the UCMJ is another layer of stuff, that doesn't automatically preclude you from being subject to regular "civilian" laws at the same time, nor does it really grant you any privileges or rights you wouldn't have had normally. If anything the UCMJ is "another layer of things you can't do legally while in the service."

-Mike

 

[W.E.C]

We don't need 'double standards', we need ONE STANDARD - Under 21? You get NUTHIN'. Tell them to suck it.

What does the Institution who grants me my liquor license say? There's your answer....

So if it’s 18 , what quote are you going by, flip or flop?

 

[tuna]

ALL OF A SUDDEN....we're "champions" of Millennials around here???

What alternative Universe did I just enter? Most morons under-21 can't remember to change out of their PJs when in-public, and are chomping on Tide-pods to get high. Fun-Fact: if you were to poll the under-21 crowd today, they're universally in-favor of a repeal of 2A in its entirety, and they'll vote for any politician that will do it. Yes, you read that right - they WANT their rights stripped from them - oblige them.

I'm fine with a blanket 21-or-older National policy - for ANYTHING.

Until you're 21, I don't want to SEE you, I don't want to HEAR you, I don't want to LOOK at you - in a gun store, in a voting booth, in a bar/club, ANYWHERE. You wanna "play adult"? Join the Marine Corps.

No, we're not champions of millennials, we're champions of the Second Amendment, and we're tired of it being infringed. I'm not just for 18 year olds being able to buy an AR, I'm for 18 year olds being able to buy and carry a pistol - Hell, I'm for 8 year olds carrying a pistol. It's the parent's fault if they cause harm - just like if an 8 year old smashes something with a rock.

But we're not going to turn the clocks back and get all our rights until we stop the pendulum. Maybe we'll never get the rights swung back into my perfect world (that may be a good thing), but we need to stop losing them because we can't agree on something.

Are most 21 year olds stupid, yes. But I think ARs are stupid, I think M1 Garands are stupid, I think S&W Shields are stupid, I don't think anyone needs a shotgun in any gauge other than 16. None of that is the point. The point is when the left throws a hissy fit, makes anime eyes at us and says "it's for the children" we need to stop thinking individually, and collectively say "NO!"

 

[SpaceCritter]

FWIW, your friendly neighborhood SpaceCritter was 20 when he bought his first:

 

[soloman02]

Looks like Oregon has a statute prohibiting discrimination based on age.

And NH has the same statute.

Tough one. He might have a case based on age discrimination, but I believe FFLs have the right to deny sales to anyone they feel like, they don’t HAVE to sell a gun to someone they feel are suspicious for example.

In that case they wouldn't be denying based on age. When I worked at a gas station near UNH I was allowed to (and encouraged by the state) to deny a sale of alcohol if I didn't feel comfortable with the sale even if the person was over 21.

 

[rommel]

I'm not going to get my shorts in a twist if a business says "NO" to selling anything to someone younger than 21 - I don't care what it is. Let's all collectively stop fussing about it. These kids, the majority of them, don't care.

I am older than 21 and I see the infringement on their rights as a direct attack on mine. To lay quietly is to condone such a practice. Any business that reacts to and gives in to emotional and whining social media rhetoric should get a backlash for their actions. I hope the plaintiffs have a good lawyer. A hit to the stockholders pockets should send a clear message to think about their actions before they react to them.

I hope for karma. Corporations are trying to profit off of the emotions of the vocal customers on social media. They should be equally financially hurt for the injustice. Not sure why Dicks can't take the position that alcohol and tobacco take and just stay out of emotions.

 

[Xringer]

It's my understanding that once you're in the service, you fall-under the UCMJ's jurisdiction. Uncle Sam has a variety of 'limits' placed upon service-members we're all fine-with, I see no reason why any of that would have to change.

At the base where I was stationed, the EM club had a "Must be 18" sign over the bar.
I never followed the rule, since I felt it was unfair to me, the only 17 year old sailor on the base.
I did get yelled at, on my 18th Birthday, when I asked for my "Free Champagne Birthday Bottle", and had to show my ID.