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defense distributed's "october surprise"
- Thread starter atilla
- Start date
warwickben
bubba Kalashnikov
The cutting depth and feed rates ..... Meh ..
.100 80ipm. Dose not seem like you can use coolant. So no way you'll get that feed rate.
I forget what there called but there like sensors for the stepper motors. But when some thing like that goes you don't really have a help line like you do with a real Cnc machine.
Dose it come with the jigs to hold the lower?talks about 3d printable ...You need to make new ones for different 80% that aren't mill spec style .
Not clear about how to re zero new tooling . That would suck to trash a lower for being off . Not clear if the program can work with tool offsets vs changing the code in to adjust for slightly under/over sized bits.
It requires a lower with the rear take down pin pocket milled out....
How many 80% lowers do you need to make to save 1000$ vs buying 100% lowers?
Looking at this from a machinist back ground . Unless your a o7 wanting to sell lowers with your logo etc vs paying a FFl to machine yours . Just buy a drill press and jig...
Or wait for a guy trying to get rid of a bridge port for 500$ and you can build way more then this machine can do .
.100 80ipm. Dose not seem like you can use coolant. So no way you'll get that feed rate.
I forget what there called but there like sensors for the stepper motors. But when some thing like that goes you don't really have a help line like you do with a real Cnc machine.
Dose it come with the jigs to hold the lower?talks about 3d printable ...You need to make new ones for different 80% that aren't mill spec style .
Not clear about how to re zero new tooling . That would suck to trash a lower for being off . Not clear if the program can work with tool offsets vs changing the code in to adjust for slightly under/over sized bits.
It requires a lower with the rear take down pin pocket milled out....
How many 80% lowers do you need to make to save 1000$ vs buying 100% lowers?
Looking at this from a machinist back ground . Unless your a o7 wanting to sell lowers with your logo etc vs paying a FFl to machine yours . Just buy a drill press and jig...
Or wait for a guy trying to get rid of a bridge port for 500$ and you can build way more then this machine can do .
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I'm pretty sure you can finish 80% lowers on someone else's machinery at their location, as long as YOU are the one that is physically doing the work/pressing the buttons, etc. Think AK build party...
warwickben
bubba Kalashnikov
Golddiggie
NES Member
Can't be CNC... YOU need to turn the handles to finish the lower (your lower). I believe this aspect has been covered to death, brought back to live, and then covered to death again (at least a few times). Depending on the quality of the machine, tooling, and person who owns said machine, it can take anywhere from about an hour to 4-5 hours to mill the FCG pocket. Cheap/HF mills will be at the long end of that range, with solid knee mills being at the short end.
A written trust or something of that sort could be written to include anyone that buys a "share". I am not sure if you can legally add owners after it is done though. The ATF might attempt to nab you on trying to loophole around owning the CNC and say that you are renting it.
If we figure that it is legal I'm in. Just as a big F U to gun ****rol <<Spelling error intentional. It's a new thing I'm starting.
If we figure that it is legal I'm in. Just as a big F U to gun ****rol <<Spelling error intentional. It's a new thing I'm starting.
Probably similar to how KT Ordnance/Rick Celata got jammed up with the ATF when he had his shop in NH and hosted
build partys using 80% 1911 frames.
He would set everything up on his machinery, and all the buyer/builder would have to do is push the start button.
warwickben
bubba Kalashnikov
4-5 hours to mill a fcg? Lol..................
[video=youtube_share;7Mcrl9YVniU]http://youtu.be/7Mcrl9YVniU[/video]
That took me a half hour to make from a huge slab of stock .
More then a 1/3 of the time was spent cutting a chunk from stock and squaring it up.
Run machine as fast as it can go , keep spraying with coolant . When nkt spraying coolant blow chips out . Stay .01 to .005 from final dim. I ran it at 2500rpm on my medium sized mill . If I was useing a Cnc I'd be at 6k rpm
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Golddiggie
NES Member
Baka
I said the FULL FCG pocket can be from ONE HOUR to 4-5+ depending on what you're doing... With what you do, I'd expect it to be sloppy at best. Of course, I also know how you couldn't pull the dimensions from the set of plans/blueprints, but had to be spoon fed the info. When done on the knee mill, we're also taking our time to do it RIGHT since we don't have lots of lowers to pull from.
BTW, yes, I have seen some people take 4+ hours to process an 80% lower. The mill was a tiny one, and I suspect those people had never even used a screwdriver. Small mills don't have the power that a full knee mill does (Bridgeport). You cannot do as deep a cut on the small mill, or go as fast.
Hope your Asian snow plow is ready since the snow is coming...
A for effort IMHO. Golddiggie just being a dick, water is wet.
This thing is pretty cool but pricey. The price sucks because in order for it to be valuable to yourself, you need to make a shit ton of lowers. Or do it for friends AKA felony. So for the average guy to waste money or wants to sit on lowers it's great. But for those with friends who have shops and CNC mills, it's a waste.
And I wouldn't call Ben's stuff sloppy. The barrel that blew up wasn't his doing and his builds are Jr Boris level. insults are the highest form of flattery.
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warwickben
bubba Kalashnikov
That is a full fcg pocket minus the upper shelf since it's not needed.
I did that on a small mill ,reading a print off a phone with a shattered screen .
Guess I'm a dumb ass for asking the person who gave me the print , worked off of it a bunch some questions to make sure I wasn't mixing up numbers .
I couldn't view both pages , or one whole page of the print at the same time.
I had to convert all the numbers and draw a new print .
since I didn't have any of the zero points you would have with a lower. My only mistake was cutting towards the safety detent a tad to much from miss reading one dim omg .
Every other dim in within .002+/- .
I machine stuff way more complex , tighter specs , and need to have 10ra or better finish on my parts I make at work. I work in a ISO certified shop. Building bio reactors and semiconductors . If I make a mistake and it passes qc and makes it into a machine people could die from ozone or other toxic gas leaks , or matter growing on a burr turning a batch of antibiotics into poison .
Yeah I make sloppy parts .....
Jr Boris lol.
I haven't made fcg parts or cast/forge my own molds yet.......
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If you look at the price of 3D printer kits, and even the cost of CNC'ing a mini mill, the price is not unreasonable. Especially not when you consider that it's CNC and can cut metal vs printing things in plastic. The target audience are people who are a little bit handy and want to make things, but not near handy enough to buy/build a full on mill.
Just revel in the fact that this machine is going to make antis piss themselves and run to their panic rooms.
Just revel in the fact that this machine is going to make antis piss themselves and run to their panic rooms.
warwickben
bubba Kalashnikov
Check out the 3d printers based on Arduino . If you join some of the groups some one will print you the parts you can buy , but you do the same for the next guy.
I don't like Defense Distributed because they are political attention whores. Remember the stinkfinger that the media and feds put on 3D printing after their idiot little one shot ABS gun that needed additional components hit the interwebs? Anyone with half a brain can make a better and more lethal firearm than that printed plastic one with $20 worth of junk from a hardware store. This is the same deal. They're making a political statement. And what's going to come from that statement? Registered uppers? That'll be fun.
They're making the point that gun control is stupid, ineffective, and ridiculously easy to bypass.
pdm
NES Member
Another article, this time with a link to Boris' Shovel AK thread here: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...tal-semi-automatic-rifle-just-got-crazy-easy/
Is that their intent? Or a natural byproduct of their innovation?
I might be wrong, but I think they whole point is to demonstrate that gun control is effectively obsolete given we live in a totally connected world.
No they aren't. As I pointed out earlier, it's ridiculously easy to manufacture a much better firearm with $20 worth of parts from the hardware store than it is with a 3D printed one like they produced on a thousand dollar machine that would fire once before disintegrating. And the pipe based shotgun produced with standard hardware will fire many, many times without failing. It's been a standard in guerrilla conflicts for over a century now.
Nor does producing a mini-CNC machine for $1500 with some open source software demonstrate how stupid, ineffective, or ridiculously easy it is to bypass current gun control. If you want to bypass it, buy an 80% lower and go mill the rest out on a buddy's Bridgeport. That's how easy, and hundreds of dollars cheaper.
But, but, but!!! That would be illegal!!!
What they're doing is capitalizing on the fears and desires of the law abiding wannabes who are too scared to break a law, and calling attention to the fact that things like registering lowers is an ineffective way for the powers that be to regulate components. What will happen is that laws will be passed to regulate uppers.
Go watch some of their videos, and read about them. They're political attention whores. There are better ways to allocate resources in efforts to curtail 2A infringers.
For whatever reason, the idea of "digitizing" the manufacturer of a firearms scares the bejeezus out of gun grabbers. You can say Home Depot this, Lowes that, but in the end it's not nearly as sexy, eye-catching or foaming-at-the-mouth-inducing as saying "downloading" a gun.
And that's their point: We can give you not only the actual blueprints but the actual assembly files that you can download, from anywhere there's an internet connection, and run them on virtually any PC with a 3D printer, assemble the physical pieces along with whatever else you need (e.g. springs) and TA-DA!
Regulating "uppers" is a moot point too.
And that's their point: We can give you not only the actual blueprints but the actual assembly files that you can download, from anywhere there's an internet connection, and run them on virtually any PC with a 3D printer, assemble the physical pieces along with whatever else you need (e.g. springs) and TA-DA!
Regulating "uppers" is a moot point too.
The inevitable government patch that will come out of this attention whoring is they will try their damnedest to make non-FFL manufacture of any non serialized, non-tracked lower receiver to be de-facto illegal. Whether the .gov types get away with that or not is another story, but this is only a few steps removed from the black panthers toting guns around the CA state house. Bray and fart in their face enough (without shooting them) and they will try to make some stupid ****ing law. We'll be listening to "save the orphans, wah wah wah wahhhhhh" after some idiot makes a plastic gun and kills a few people with it, no matter how stupid the rationale behind the whining is.
The problem with "pushbutton gunsmithing" is that antis start having a field day foaming at the mouth over
it and they can cajole a few of the ambivalent types along for the ride. Actually, the antis won't do it, but the leftists in the media will do it for them. Yeah, it does show how stupid gun control is, but do you think the people who pass shitty laws are gonna care about that? No. They're going to come up with another stupid law. The other problem is there are a shitload of fudd mother****er shit eaters in this country that will say stupid, anti freedom type shit like "I should have a right to own a gun but I think everyone should go through a background check to buy one, bwah bwah bwah" so NRA opposition to such a law change would be minimal because a bunch of mainstreamer ****wit, freedom hating "gun owners" will actually suck for and agree to this shit, and the NRA will sell it as "protecting the long term viability of the 2nd amendment" or some horseshit like that.
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
-Mike
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This is cool - but for just over half the price you can buy a grizzly mini-mill which is a much more capable machine.
The inevitable government patch that will come out of this attention whoring is they will try their damnedest to make non-FFL manufacture of any non serialized, non-tracked lower receiver to be de-facto illegal. Whether the .gov types get away with that or not is another story, but this is only a few steps removed from the black panthers toting guns around the CA state house. Bray and fart in their face enough (without shooting them) and they will try to make some stupid ****ing law. We'll be listening to "save the orphans, wah wah wah wahhhhhh" after some idiot makes a plastic gun and kills a few people with it, no matter how stupid the rationale behind the whining is.
The problem with "pushbutton gunsmithing" is that antis start having a field day foaming at the mouth over
it and they can cajole a few of the ambivalent types along for the ride. Actually, the antis won't do it, but the leftists in the media will do it for them. Yeah, it does show how stupid gun control is, but do you think the people who pass shitty laws are gonna care about that? No. They're going to come up with another stupid law. The other problem is there are a shitload of fudd mother****er shit eaters in this country that will say stupid, anti freedom type shit like "I should have a right to own a gun but I think everyone should go through a background check to buy one, bwah bwah bwah" so NRA opposition to such a law change would be minimal because a bunch of mainstreamer ****wit, freedom hating "gun owners" will actually suck for and agree to this shit, and the NRA will sell it as "protecting the long term viability of the 2nd amendment" or some horseshit like that.
-Mike
It's the "show me your badass operator gear and survival preps" equivalent of small manufacturing. Look at me! Look at me! Look at me! Oh **** I got stomped on by the Government!
The dudes who know how to use their shit, make their own shit, etc., don't go posting it online.
I'm not arguing with you. I'm just offering a different vantage point.
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
Half of this is perception (as opposed to actuality.) "Downloading a gun" gets eyes balls, clicks, viewership, readership, etc. Is that their point? I guess. I think it's poking at gun control and calling it obsolete. It's brilliant IMHO - Calling gun control obsolete - I guess it always was in some senses but now it's just so plainly obvious. Can they just create a PDF with a list of items you need at your local ACE Hardware Store to assemble your own shotgun? I guess they could do that to. Either way it's effectively dead.
I think it's brilliant. But there's always the Debbie Downer types (we know who they are) that give the usual - and predictable - pooh-pooh this, pooh-pooh that.
More likely than trying to control upper receivers via FFL, as was suggested earlier.
warwickben
bubba Kalashnikov
Or for less you can find a Bridgeport. I've had two friends and a lgs each get a bridge port for around 500$ simply because how hard they are to move . Most people don't realize of you take the head/turret / table off it much easier to move.
My dad picked up a medium sized mill (stands on a small base) uses same colletes as a bridge port for around 1500$ shipped .
We just used a engine lift to move it .
