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Danvers leads the way in concealed weapons

Peabody, by comparison, has one of the strictest policies around, according to Detective Michael Crane. In addition to the state rules, Peabody requires that a firearms course be taken each time an applicant asks to renew their permit - every six years. The department also asks for a letter from an employer if a permit is job-related.

"We don't make them jump through hoops, we just ask for some justification," Crane said.
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I can't imagine what Mr. Crane considers jumping through hoops. [shocked]

Capt. Brian Gilligan, Salem police patrol division commander. "The chief has no problem denying someone (if they don't meet the requirements)."

Gilligan said that all types of people come in to apply for Class A permits, but those who say they need them for jobs, like a corrections officer or security guard, often don't really need them for their job. He said even those working for the Essex County Sheriff's Department must bring in a letter from their employer. And when they change jobs, their permit is not renewed, he said.
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So if you're just a peon you have to call 911 and hope your attacker doesn't kill you by the time the Popo show? No offense to any of the resident LEO's in here, but it's statements like that which make people hate the police.

But a spokesman for the Brady Campaign, a campaign against illegal guns, said there is no evidence that carrying a firearm will make anyone less of a target for a criminal.

"It's the great fiction of the gun-right side," said Brady Campaign spokesman Zack Ragbourn. "We're talking about people who are not afraid of electric chairs. They're not going to be afraid of (someone with a gun) that they don't know how to use."
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This guy must have just put the crack pipe down when he made this comment.
 
derek said:
So if you're just a peon you have to call 911 and hope your attacker doesn't kill you by the time the Popo show? No offense to any of the resident LEO's in here, but it's statements like that which make people hate the police.
Click to expand...

nevermind that when you were working for the sheriff and someone got pissed at you for what ever reason and is still holding a grudge.
 
"We're talking about people who are not afraid of electric chairs.

But, one-gun-a-month laws and waiting periods will have them quaking in their boots and soiling their trousers to the point that they'l be horrified into a life of law-abiding civility.

What abject morons.
 
And I forgot to mention: could we please recommend that NOBODY takes or endorses whatever class this asshat teaches?

Former Salem City Councilor[sic] Vinnie Furfaro has had a Class A permit since 1974 and said he can count on one hand the number of times he has carried a concealed weapon. He teaches NRA-endorsed firearms training courses in Salem, issuing training certificates to those who are also applying for firearms permits.
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Unless he's just saying that so that he can continue to conceal his concealed firearm, it's irresponsible and just aids more fuel to the fire that suggests that the population of MA does not need a Class A-LTC/ALP. Which is just BS. [frown]

I tell every student I have to apply for a Class A-LTC/ALP and to continue their education by taking more courses and joining competitions if possible. This guy should have his NRA cert revoked. [angry]
 
If NRA ever started dumping instructors who never carry concealed or maybe even don't think it's a good idea for most civilians, they'd eliminate a huge percentage of their instructors. Remember that none of the basic courses teach anything about concealed carry, only the new Personal Protection Outside the Home, which is only now starting to move into "beta test" mode after roughly 10 years of internal hand-wringing.

Ken
 
Peabody requires that a firearms course be taken each time an applicant asks to renew their permit - every six years.
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In blatant violation of the controlling statute regarding safety course requirements.

But people "don't want any trouble" - thus guaranteeing that they will get it.....
 
Scrivener said:
In blatant violation of the controlling statute regarding safety course requirements.

But people "don't want any trouble" - thus guaranteeing that they will get it.....
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Local optimization - it's probably cheaper and quicker to take the course than hire an attorney, wait for a court date and argue the point.

This is another reason why serious handgunners should invest the time to become NRA and MA certified instructors. You might have to convince the chief you spent some time talking to yourself though.
 
I've often wondered:

If people could simply predict how, when and where a mugging or violent act could happen to them then "maybe" the police could protect us. The FACT is they can't, they aren't liable and VERY likely they won't be there- it's not their fault. Violent crimes happen everywhere folks- why can't they figure this out??? How the hell does someone KNOW when or IF they would need to CCW to protect themselves? I'd like to be the one to make these choices... not someone else!

Sorry- this was a rant against the Brady folks. I don't really care if the bad guys aren't afraid of the electric chair... my goal is to make sure they don't harm my family or me before they go to the chair!
 
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I thought this was pretty interesting information refuting the Brady Bunch's spokesman's assertion that criminals don't fear the elecric chair why should they fear an armed citizen.

This is from the NRA website, but it's based on a NIJ funded study.

http://www.nra-ila.org/Issues/Articles/Read.aspx?ID=117

Criminals might not be afraid to get caught, but they are afraid to get shot!! Sounds like a new NRA slogan to me.
 
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"They're not going to be afraid of (someone with a gun) that they don't know how to use."

Once again, the Brady people assume that citizens exercising their right to self protection are a bunch of incompetent Neanderthals that have no clue in how to use them.
I have taken a number of courses, shot with LEO's, detectives, SWAT members, and Secret Service people, and I can state without doubt that I shoot much better than the vast majority of regular LEO's, in target and combat conditions. Most LEO's qualify once a year and leave their firearms in the holster until the next qualification.
I will say that some detectives and all the SWAT guys and Secret Service guys are real good, and most embarrass me in shooting ability.
 
Danvers police Chief Neil Ouellette isn't sure why Danvers issues more Class A permits than other area cities and towns, but he guessed that its close proximity to the Fish and Game Club in Middleton has something to do with it. Class A permits also allow the holder to possess weapons typically used for hunting.
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Does she even know what she is talking about?
 
The point I found confusing was the reference to Class A permits as if they were automatically ALP. Maybe they are in Danvers, but I don't really believe that. [thinking]

Has anyone contacted this writer for feedback?

RJ
 
Okay, took my own advice and sent out a quick hit letter. Thanks to everyone here that I quoted in some part or another. [smile]

Hello Ms Cronin,
I read your article recently in the Salem News and was disappointed by the bias, negative tone of the article and lack of equal comments by the other side of the gun control issue, as well as mis-information about Class A permits.

First of all, not all Class A permits are issued for concealed carry. Many are limited to only Target/Hunting. How many of those in Danvers are restricted?

Second, the comments by the Brady spokesman was demeaning and typical of their rhetoric. "They're not going to be afraid of (someone with a gun) that they don't know how to use."

Once again, the Brady people assume that citizens exercising their right to self protection are a bunch of incompetent Neanderthals that have no clue in how to use them. I was offended by that statement, as I know many others were. I am a retired LEO, with 18 years experience in firearms and remain an avid shooter. I know how to use a firearm. All of my friends that own guns are avid shooters and know how to use a firearm. Sure, someone will buy one and not have a clue how to shoot it. Many people buy cars and can't drive. What's the point?

Since you didn't have any counterpoints to the Brady comments, here is some pretty interesting information refuting said Brady Bunch's spokesman's assertion that criminals don't fear the elecric chair why should they fear an armed citizen.

This is from the NRA website, but it's based on a NIJ funded study.

http://www.nra-ila.org/Issues/Articles/Read.aspx?ID=117

Thank you for your time.

R. Jackson
Watertown, MA

RJ
 
KMaurer said:
If NRA ever started dumping instructors who never carry concealed or maybe even don't think it's a good idea for most civilians, they'd eliminate a huge percentage of their instructors.
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That's just sad. Maybe I'm biased because of the extraordinary instructors I have the honor of working with <shameless plug for www.massrifle.com>.

While I don't think that untrained citizens should be carrying concealed I do believe that being prepared to defend yourself should be a right, not a privilege. It makes me incredibly angry that anyone in a position to educate somebody, and who even goes so far as to become certified, would go all limp and allow a reporter to imply that he said, "oh yeah, I never carry. I don't need to protect myself. And I'm an instructor so if I don't need to carry, then you REALLY don't need to carry..."

I suppose I'm being harshly critical, but it just rubs me the wrong way. We have so much to fight against already, I don't see why somebody who should know better, doesn't. [sad2]
 
SiameseRat said:
, <SNIP> "oh yeah, I never carry. I don't need to protect myself. And I'm an instructor so if I don't need to carry, then you REALLY don't need to carry..."[sad2]
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Oh yeah.. this was one of the reasons I was given, as an aside, from the interviewing officer that handled permits. He didn't carry off-duty. ??? I wasn't going to get into a dicussion with him in his office about why and department regs, etc. Mainly since I don't know them, but the very fact a LEO doesnt' carry was unbelieveable. [shocked]

Maybe it was just me and my wild Ohio roots. Living on the frontier of civilization all those years made me feral. [smile]

Oh well...

RJ
 
RJ,

The number of LEOs in MA who CCW off-duty is infinitesimal. In the small department that I worked in (26 FT, 35 PT), I only know of one officer who CCW'd all the time. I also know a number of past and present Boston PD officers and they none of them CCW'd off-duty.

  • Much has to do with our anti-gun culture up here,
  • Much has to do with department policies that tend to box in any off-duty officer who gets involved,
  • And historically, when an officer gets jammed up here (MA) for doing something that the brass feels he/she shouldn't have, the unions (in most cases) aren't strong enough to effectively back their officers (and the towns are usually out to screw all their officers at any chance they get).
 
You aren't being overly critical. That instructor is a retard and should be booted out of the NRA. Next! [angry]

SiameseRat said:
That's just sad. Maybe I'm biased because of the extraordinary instructors I have the honor of working with <shameless plug for www.massrifle.com>.

While I don't think that untrained citizens should be carrying concealed I do believe that being prepared to defend yourself should be a right, not a privilege. It makes me incredibly angry that anyone in a position to educate somebody, and who even goes so far as to become certified, would go all limp and allow a reporter to imply that he said, "oh yeah, I never carry. I don't need to protect myself. And I'm an instructor so if I don't need to carry, then you REALLY don't need to carry..."

I suppose I'm being harshly critical, but it just rubs me the wrong way. We have so much to fight against already, I don't see why somebody who should know better, doesn't. [sad2]
Click to expand...
 
That's their choice but how dare they presume to make that choice for me! I should have the right to decide when I want to carry not them...for the simple reason that NONE of them can guarantee my safety 24 hours per day, seven days per week! [angry]

Jaxon said:
Oh yeah.. this was one of the reasons I was given, as an aside, from the interviewing officer that handled permits. He didn't carry off-duty. ??? I wasn't going to get into a dicussion with him in his office about why and department regs, etc. Mainly since I don't know them, but the very fact a LEO doesnt' carry was unbelieveable. [shocked]

Maybe it was just me and my wild Ohio roots. Living on the frontier of civilization all those years made me feral. [smile]

Oh well...

RJ
Click to expand...
 

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