Cylinder Binding

[Tiktock]

Ive been putting a steady diet of .44 mag through my Dan Wesson that I picked up last week and had a question:

So far ive put about 300 rounds of .44 mag through it. Maybe 4-5 times in those rounds, I found that when i went to cock the hammer, the cylinder wouldnt rotate with ease. I could rotate the cylinder a tiny bit by hand and it would solve the problem, but I had a few questions/observations:

Observations:
-This doesnt happen with any reproducability: I have never ever had binding when dry firing and from what I can tell, is not related to any particular single chamber. I have yet to be able to reproduce the problem outside the range even turning the cylinder with spent brass loaded.
-This seems to only happen when the gun is loaded and after a number of rounds have been fired, but is certainly not due to high primers or the rounds themselves sticking. In dry fire, the action is smooth and consistant and the cylinder gap appears consistant as it rotates, so I dont think its the front face being out of true.

1. Cylinder gap: I will re-adjust this using the tool provided, but I believe the current cylinder gap is fine and set to approximately .06 as designed. I will re-seat it just to make sure, though.

2. Ratchet: Could these cases of binding simply be due to crud getting caught in the ratchet and interfering with the pawl trying to turn the cylinder? I read somewhere about someone saying to carry a can of gunscrubber and to clean that area every so often during a long shooting session. I may apply some dry lube to the ratchet to avoid crud getting stuck in oil-based lube but 100 or so rounds didnt seem excessive enough to cause the problem.

3. Grip screw. I dont know why this makes sense but I read elsewhere that this could be due to an overtightened grip screw....why would this affect the action?

4. Heat: Could the issue be cause by the actual gun being a bit hot after some rounds are fired? Could the heat cause the tolerances between parts to change slightly enough that I get infrequent binding when I never do with the gun cold?

The issue is a very minor one as this is a "play" gun but i'd like to get a little better handle on it. Its a very minor nuisance in an otherwise fantastic revolver and may just be something I need to live with given that the gun is almost 30 years old.

 

[EddieCoyle]

Check your rounds for high primers. You won't find these in spent brass because most of the time a high primer will seat when the round is fired.

 

[jhrosier]

Check the face of the recoil shield, around the firing pin for burrs.
If the cases heads are counterbored in the cylinder, check for crud.
Check for crud under the extractor star.
High primers, excessively long cases, cases buckled by too much crimp.
Does this happen with factory loads?

Jack

 

[Pilgrim]

Check for crud under the extractor star.

That's the first thing to check and most likely problem. I had it with my DW. Scrub it good and lube well.

 

[Tiktock]

I will check for crud UNDER....i had not thought to check for that. As far as high primers, it could be the case, but I wouldnt think that a tiny hand movement of the cylinder would have fixed the problem if that was the case as the primer would have still been high.

These were all winchester factory loads and the occurrances of the problem seemed too high to be the high primer rate for factory ammo.

It felt to me like the pawl that tries to rotate the cylinder was either hitting something and binding before it had a chance to "latch" and rotate the cylinder, or the cylinder itself was binding, but i did not feel any resistance at all when i hand turned it.

I'll focus on the extractor star first, then move my way outward from there....its gonna be tough to diagnose and fix if i cant reproduce it. I may just keep rotating the cylinder with spent brass until i replicate it, then really examine things....if i simply cannot replicate it outside the range, i will try some different ammo brands....

Thanks for all the info thus far! If i can't figure it out, maybe someone who is a revolver expert can take a look at it at the pumpkin shoot.

 

[TY43215]

My uneducated guess is cylinder end shake. I am not real familiar with Dan Wesson but if anything like their cousin from Springfield, when the cylinder gets end shake it will hit on the forcing cone and act just as you describe.

Regards,

 

[Tiktock]

Exactly what is defined as end-shake....is it simply the cylinder's ability to move front-back as it rotates?

 

[Mooney]

Yes, the when the cylinder gets end shake, it moves back and forth either under motion.

Unload gun.
Close Cylinder.
Grab cylinder and attempt to push it back and forth (like racking a slide)
If there's motion, you've got endshake. (at least, in a S&W)

RGS taught me this....

I've had the issue in my SW 625- had serious issues with misfires (and it was my competition gun too), and was fixed (along with a couple other items) by adding End Shake Washers ( I think they're called) from Brownell's

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/st...=9858&title=CYLINDER+&+YOKE+ENDSHAKE+BEARINGS

I don't know if this is the issue (or if these would fit your gun)- I know nada about Dan Wesson firearms, but have several of their cousins

 

[TY43215]

Yes, the when the cylinder gets end shake, it moves back and forth either under motion.

Unload gun.
Close Cylinder.
Grab cylinder and attempt to push it back and forth (like racking a slide)
If there's motion, you've got endshake. (at least, in a S&W)

RGS taught me this....

I've had the issue in my SW 625- had serious issues with misfires (and it was my competition gun too), and was fixed (along with a couple other items) by adding End Shake Washers ( I think they're called) from Brownell's

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/st...=9858&title=CYLINDER+&+YOKE+ENDSHAKE+BEARINGS

I don't know if this is the issue (or if these would fit your gun)- I know nada about Dan Wesson firearms, but have several of their cousins

You are close Grasshopper. When checking make sure you hold the yoke against the frame as there are two types of end shake. End shake yoke and/or end shake cylinder.

Hey Mooney, who put shims in your 625?????? I stretched the yoke the way a real mechanic would

 

[Mooney]

Woops, my bad. Since you told me to look at them, I thought that's what ya did. I didn't know about the yoke end-shake. Ya dang old farts keeping secrets from us whippersnappers- I see how it is

You and your round-gun mojo will be missed in the USPSA world. I STILL can't believe that my 625 sets off all primers (and I've even tried CCIs)

Looking forward to attempting a tuneup on my 610 whence I get one. Glad they came back out (and that I didn't buy flotter390s- used for that much = the OLD market....)

 

[Tiktock]

Well this remains a mystery to me....no junk behind extractor star....almost zero front-back play on the cylinder....id say a few thousandths of an inch at most....

I have been completely unable to replicate the live-fire problem while dry firing, or dummy rounds. I went ahead and re-set the gap which i think actually reduced the gap from where it was before....no burrs on any recoil areas or firing pin area.....

I am going to shoot the gun some more now that ive tweaked a few things and really examine it if the problem re-occurs but as of right now im almost tempted to assume it was high primers.

 

[Mooney]

I check my ammo for high primers by placing any questionable ones on their caseheads (bullet up) on a level surface.

If the cartridge rocks, a high primer you have....

 

[Gammon]

It is possible that the cylinder/barrel gap is a little too tight and that the heat developed from firing causes the two to make contact. I have seen this happen on new S&Ws.

 

[Tiktock]

I believe I have resolved this, or at least to my satisfaction thus far. I re-set the cylinder gap using the "tightest" chamber since one seemed a few thousandths tighter. I set the barrel snug with the cylinder then backed it off until it just barely scraped the cylinder in one tiny spot, then used that spot to set the normal cylinder gap. I also removed a tiny burr i detected around the firing pin hole.

Since doing so, i have put 200 rounds through it without a single binding issue and it has been flawless.

I researched and found this problem was somewhat common with the early Dan Wessons, and was due to how they milled the cylinders soft and heat treated them, causing some tolerance issues in some cases.

Only time will tell, but for now, 200 rounds of failure free will have to suffice as "fixed" as I cant afford to run thousands of rounds through it. The pumpkin shoot will be a good test as i plan on going through at least 250-300 rounds.

I also found an old set of hogue monogrips to fit large frame dan wessons which feels awesome in comparison to the stock walnut grips.

Thanks for all the advice everyone!