Credit card purchases

[11 ROBERT]

i always carry a fair amount of cash. when i bump into someone selling a gun,i have cash ready and cash talks. i buy lots like that. oh yeah, i'm in florida, the gunshine state !! (for now )

 

[alx]

Some credit cards will cancel your account if they determine you are buying guns or ammo. Bank of America is known to do that. They did it to me.

I have used Chase and Capital One cards the last few years and have not had any problems so far.

On the privacy side of things as mentioned above- that ship has sailed. Any government entity that wants to know more about me has all the info they can ever datamine. I have given up on the subject

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Kevin_NH]

Some credit cards will cancel your account if they determine you are buying guns or ammo. Bank of America is known to do that. They did it to me.
I have used Chase and Capital One cards the last few years and have not had any problems so far.

Did BofA tell you that? While any business, including a bank or credit union, can drop you as a customer at any time, they don't have to give you a reason -- it's in their best interest not to.

BofA is horrible in a lot of ways, but terminating individual consumer credit cards because BofA recognizes the stores you are buying from as purveyors of guns, ammo?

 

[Brad.in.IL]

This reasoning makes no sense.

You can be fingerprinted for work and not be on a gun owners list.

What GL2020 said in comment #60

 

[Broc]

What GL2020 said in comment #60

Dude, you said you were fingerprinted for a job in Finance. What is described in post #60 is a lot more than fingerprinted for a Finance job.

 

[GL2020]

Did BofA tell you that? While any business, including a bank or credit union, can drop you as a customer at any time, they don't have to give you a reason -- it's in their best interest not to.

BofA is horrible in a lot of ways, but terminating individual consumer credit cards because BofA recognizes the stores you are buying from as purveyors of guns, ammo?

Mrs 2020 was a Director at BOA for here last 6 years of a 25 year tenure. She retired 2021, and then promptly went to work at a smaller well known bank in RI.
She doesn't miss it at all. In fact she didn't realize how bad it truly was in her group until she was gone for a while.

She never did any banking with BOA and I found that very telling. To be clear she started her career at a smaller bank that was sucked into BOA, it was not her goal entering the workforce. She doesn't have a debit/credit/or even a checking account with them and never did....not much warmth in her voice when the subject of BOA comes up.

 

[alx]

Did BofA tell you that? While any business, including a bank or credit union, can drop you as a customer at any time, they don't have to give you a reason -- it's in their best interest not to.

BofA is horrible in a lot of ways, but terminating individual consumer credit cards because BofA recognizes the stores you are buying from as purveyors of guns, ammo?

I used that card only for guns and ammo. They did give me a reason and it was “continuous breach of contract”. I was never behind on payments and always in good standing. My fico did t change either nor they pulled it before the cancellation. So… I cannot think of another reason why would they drop me. I also inquired about this on a credit card forum and was told I am not an exception… lastly in my line of work I am very well connected so I reached to my BofA counterpart and he told me “yeah, we do that”…

 

[Agnotology]

Damn, and here I thought the Northbound side was "Pickle Park" for the longest time. It's no wonder.....oh wait....nevermind...carry on gentlemen.

As of.... 2 years ago? Its still in use. Had a guy leave his Tesla keys at my old job at 2 am before heading over there. He was in his 60s, some kind of mathematical genius who liked still getting out there randomly. Felt bad for the town guy who ran him his keys

 

[ReggieB9mm]

What’s your opinion on why you don’t use credit card?

I’m not convinced there is any advantage that outweighs the disadvantages.

 

[Kevin_NH]

For a business, handling cash has a cost as well, conservatively estimated at upwards of 4%.

I’m not convinced there is any advantage that outweighs the disadvantages.

Theft, loss, etc? Steal my credit card (physically, or online) and I'm out nothing but a bit of inconvenience. $0 fraud liability.
Ever tried to reserve a flight, hotel room or a rental car without a card? You might say "Use a debit card", but that's the worst of both.

Aside from your LGS, the majority of businesses build credit fees into pricing, so if you pay cash, I thank you for subsidizing my +2% back on CC purchases.

 

[EJFudd]

I am too old and poor to use credit cards anymore (and pay a 3% average premium... no thanks!), so I must use cash for guns & ammo. I feel better doing that anyway after my bad experiences with credit card issuers and all that stuff about the big credit card issuers helping the Leftist Deep State figure out who attended January 6th in Washington. Just don't trust the big banks any longer.

By the way, look at this change in the way they calculate your FICO score:

KEY FACTOR(S) AFFECTING YOUR FICO® SCORE: Length of time accounts have been established

FICO® Scores consider the age of a person's oldest account and/or the average age of accounts. Your score was impacted by the relatively low age of your oldest account and/or the average age of your accounts. Keep in mind: People who do not frequently open new accounts and have longer credit histories generally pose less risk to lenders.

See what they did there? They figured that dirt poor old folks were benefiting numerically from the advanced age of their oldest account... so they put a stop to that by now using the average age of all your accounts. No wonder my FICO score took a sudden nose dive.

 

[Mark from MA]

Tinfoil question or financial question?

I’m a gun shop. I charge my customers 3% more for using plastic. Ok, I give a cash discount (to be compliant with terms of service for MC and Visa). So many will pay cash to pay less. But if gku are getting 2% back it’s close to a wash.

Tinfoil, ok. I’m coded as sporting goods (for now) in the system. They don’t know you bought a gun but they can deduce it based on the amount charged. So what. Fa10. 4473. Plenty of paper trail out there.

The only thing paying plastic for that makes NO SENSE is 80% frames or lowers.

This......your buying a serialized item and recording it in your name on a 4473 with a background check.....and your worried about the man knowing via a CC transaction???? What??

I only use credit cards, pay the bill in full monthly and enjoy the 2% cash back on general, 3% back on groceries and 4% back on gas. At least 10K in cash back and free airline tickets, and free car rentals.

Do they track it?....who the fxck cares......they can track my all my purchases of toilet paper for all I care. If you carry a cell phone in your pocket, they track everything with it. So why care.

For those that argue about a cash discount...might be valid in your area.

In mine there are limited gun shops, my most local one is great at transfers, doesn't care about cash or card, same price......and Ill argue all day long the cash discount at your local shop is not gonna beat what i get for an online price, free shipping no tax, 2% rebate off when charged to my card. I pay the 25 dollar transfer fee to the local guy and he gets some business. I also buy some ammo as well as he's pretty good on small amounts of ammo.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

What’s everyone opinion on purchasing firearms with credit cards? Or do you strictly use cash?

The guy in the alley with the van on takes cash.

 

[Mark from MA]

I am too old and poor to use credit cards anymore (and pay a 3% average premium... no thanks!), so I must use cash for guns & ammo. I feel better doing that anyway after my bad experiences with credit card issuers and all that stuff about the big credit card issuers helping the Leftist Deep State figure out who attended January 6th in Washington. Just don't trust the big banks any longer.

By the way, look at this change in the way they calculate your FICO score:



See what they did there? They figured that dirt poor old folks were benefiting numerically from the advanced age of their oldest account... so they put a stop to that by now using the average age of all your accounts. No wonder my FICO score took a sudden nose dive.

So that's why mine went from 847 to 833. Wow....killer.

BTW.....most Boomers and Gen X are way better off financially than young people...this whole thing was about being "fair" probably

 

[Mark from MA]

It’s a form of currency that can be used to buy anything, including flights, vs airline points which can be used for…flights.

How do you buy airline tickets with cash? Im not joking...I've never done it.

Credit card online is the only way I ever bought flights.

And Im old....do you go to the counter or kiosk at the airport??

I know one time Im glad I didn't pay cash....whole family was flying out of Worcester down to Orlando and the airline went belly up. Everyone that paid cash got fxcked.......my card just got credited back in 3 days, and I ended up renting a car with less than half the money and driving down.

 

[EJFudd]

So that's why mine went from 847 to 833. Wow....killer.

BTW.....most Boomers and Gen X are way better off financially than young people...this whole thing was about being "fair" probably

I believe you are correct. Too many young folks have horrible credit scores. There have been several changes that I am aware of to help bring the scores of the young and irresponsible up to those of responsible adults. This is just one of them.

 

[Yazz]

I only use cash when buying guns utilizing the gun show loophole, or on the DARK WEB.

And he uses Peso's.

 

[Kevin_NH]

While everybody is raving over "Generative AI" like ChatGPT and Copilot, there's real work being done in the much less sexy field of "Predictive AI". Of course when the results come back that old white folk with stable jobs are the most likely to pay their loans off, it'll just be another case of "AI is Racist" and CFPB will kill it.

I believe you are correct. Too many young folks have horrible credit scores. There have been several changes that I am aware of to help bring the scores of the young and irresponsible up to those of responsible adults. This is just one of them.

Lenders may pay lip service to DEI and "social credit" scores, but you can be damn sure their internal scoring model is purely based on risk, and the old-school kind of "equity". (Yes, all banks have a secret in-house score they apply when deciding to extend credit to an existing customer; they don't have to disclose your absolute score on their private mode, just what data they used, e.g. your NES posting history or your voting record).

The raison d'être of a "Credit Score" is risk control, to quantify how likely a borrower is to "pay as agreed". Any scoring model which fails at this core purpose is worthless posturing. OTOH, a model which rejects applicants who in reality are good credit risks, however the scoring puts too much weight on one factor, is also a poor model.

Just like the "social credit" people, they don't like cash, because this "shadow economy" limits visibility (and thus the accuracy of their predictions).

 

[Reptile]

JPMorgan Chase Freezes, Eliminates Bank Account Without Warning, Explanation or Redemption: New Accusations​

JPMorgan Chase Freezes, Eliminates Bank Account Without Warning, Explanation or Redemption: New Accusations - The Daily Hodl

A customer at JPMorgan Chase reportedly says that their bank account was locked and later shut down after using payments app Zelle.

dailyhodl.com

 

[Broc]

I pay for guns with goats in the Khyber Pass. Guns for Goats.

I just take what I want. What is this concept of paying for stuff?

 

[drgrant]

For a business, handling cash has a cost as well, conservatively estimated at upwards of 4%.

That's absolute garbage unless we're talking a giant retail business. Everyone else just makes a bank drop.

Basically the plastic deal is just an incest game where basically everyone pays higher prices for stuff because the vendor has to charge more to offset the cost of the transactions so a bunch of rubes can think that they're getting like Rewards or airline miles or whatever for "free" when the reality is we paid for all that shit up front by overpaying for the goods we buy. Maybe with the one exception being gasoline which is not nearly as rapey as the other stuff. Although I'm not nearly as mad at credit cards as I am with other things that are very rapey at least somebody could argue that the credit card/ plastic thing provides a lot of security to the transaction in regards to lowering your risk of loss or theft of the payment card as a consumer. You lose a credit card it's like a 5 minute phone call to shit can it or maybe even 10 seconds on an app to deactivate it. You lose cash it's just gone. I get that part of it at least that's not as dumb as diamonds, the educational industrial complex or jingocon war bullshit.

 

[DJBrad]

I just take what I want. What is this concept of paying for stuff?

You are a true Millennial. I love you.

 

[EJFudd]

JPMorgan Chase Freezes, Eliminates Bank Account Without Warning, Explanation or Redemption: New Accusations​

JPMorgan Chase Freezes, Eliminates Bank Account Without Warning, Explanation or Redemption: New Accusations - The Daily Hodl

A customer at JPMorgan Chase reportedly says that their bank account was locked and later shut down after using payments app Zelle.

dailyhodl.com

Shocked............ (not)

 

[knucklehead]

I try to buy firearms in cash only when at the FFL. The interest on the cards are so damn high these days.

 

[EJFudd]

While everybody is raving over "Generative AI" like ChatGPT and Copilot, there's real work being done in the much less sexy field of "Predictive AI". Of course when the results come back that old white folk with stable jobs are the most likely to pay their loans off, it'll just be another case of "AI is Racist" and CFPB will kill it.

I've heard that "AI" is racist for sure.

Lenders may pay lip service to DEI and "social credit" scores, but you can be damn sure their internal scoring model is purely based on risk, and the old-school kind of "equity". (Yes, all banks have a secret in-house score they apply when deciding to extend credit to an existing customer; they don't have to disclose your absolute score on their private mode, just what data they used, e.g. your NES posting history or your voting record).

Sounds like you have some inside knowledge on that. One would hope it is true that lenders haven't completely lost their minds and that real credit risk does still matter. Sometimes, I'm not so sure about that.

The raison d'être of a "Credit Score" is risk control, to quantify how likely a borrower is to "pay as agreed". Any scoring model which fails at this core purpose is worthless posturing. OTOH, a model which rejects applicants who in reality are good credit risks, however the scoring puts too much weight on one factor, is also a poor model.

Agreed. That's why they keep tinkering with it. I just get a bit upset when I see the tinkering changes lowering my credit score for no good reason.

Just like the "social credit" people, they don't like cash, because this "shadow economy" limits visibility (and thus the accuracy of their predictions).

The government has been driving people into the "shadow economy" and it's only going to get worse (mucho worse!) with millions of illegal aliens now invading the USA.

 

[Mesatchornug]

"on the internet, everyone knows that you're a dog"

 

[MaroonedinMA]

I use a credit card when convenient for the same reason I'd want to be at ground zero in a nuclear attack.

I don't care to hide nor do I care to live in fear.

 

[Kevin_NH]

Sounds like you have some inside knowledge on that.
Agreed. That's why they keep tinkering with it. I just get a bit upset when I see the tinkering changes lowering my credit score for no good reason.

I've spent a fair amount of time in the back rooms of various banks over the years. Never seen the internals of the scoring model, rarely see the inside of the vault

FICO's "length of credit history" sure seems like a proxy for growing up middle class and just generally being older with strong community ties?
If so, and assuming those things are not truly a good predictor of credit risk, changing the weighting makes sense; for most people changing from "max age" to "mean age" wouldn't have much score impact.

To the extent that tinkering with the model (e.g. Experian’s Credit Boost,) allows lenders to identify "overlooked" good credit risk borrowers, it's a smart business practice -- but there's always the temptation for gov't and DEI folk to turn these efforts into affirmative action for borrowers, and we're back to subprime lending...

One would hope it is true that lenders haven't completely lost their minds and that real credit risk does still matter. Sometimes, I'm not so sure about that.

Problem comes when the government pushes the banks to pay more attention to "reputational risk" and keeping FedGov happy (as in Operation Chokepoint) than real financial risk -- or threatens adverse action against lenders on the basis of "disparate impact"?

Predictive AI makes the whole thing even messier -- if you feed machine learning with the financials (but not name, address or race) of every person you've loaned money to in the last 20 or 50 years, how do you prove the resulting opaque "neural net" isn't racist?

 

[EJFudd]

To the extent that tinkering with the model (e.g. Experian’s Credit Boost,) allows lenders to identify "overlooked" good credit risk borrowers, it's a smart business practice -- but there's always the temptation for gov't and DEI folk to turn these efforts into affirmative action for borrowers, and we're back to subprime lending.

Yep. And Lord knows I am more than old enough to remember the sub-prime mortgage crisis and the huge damage it did. I guess that's why tinkering with credit scores to help raise the credit score for likely risky folks while lowering the score for proven solid folks scares me so much.

As I have said before, there is only one huge financial threat challenge left in my remaining life and that is going to be my ability to finance a new car when my old jalopy dies. I am going to need all the help and luck I can muster to make that possible. I am already feeling the hurt put on me by the big banks as I grow hideously older in retirement. I really don't need any more negatives if I can avoid them.