Conventional wisdom on a AR-15 .22LR upper

[TonyDedo]

What is the conventional wisdom on a AR-15 .22LR dedicated upper? I think I want to avoid the Ciener/conversion kits, and go with a dedicated .22LR upper. I'm most concerned with accuracy and reliability, especially in regards to the magazines. Price is not so much of an issue.

Thanks guys!

-TD

 

[bpm990d]

The two big names that HP guys use are Compass Lake Engineering and Accuracy Speaks.

YMMV

B

 

[Gammon]

I have a DPMS 22LR upper for my AR and have found it to be a great training tool. I have improved my rifle skills for short money.

That's the good news. The bad news is that the unit came with a rough chamber. After it got dirty, it would fire slightly out of battery as the cases wouldn't completely chamber; the ejected cases had a distinct bulge where they were unsupported. That didn't bother me too much, I just kept the gun clean. Unfortunately, one night at MRA a case blew and also blew the extractors out of the bolt. I had to sweep up all of the brass and dust around my booth, take it home, and run a magnet over it to recover the parts (these little devils cost a lot of $). Polishing the chamber solved the problem and the upper has been trouble free, more or less. The next problem was the mags; I dropped one on the floor at MRA and cracked the plastic outer body badly. A call to DPMS yielded no satisfaction at all; their opinion on the matter was "So what". No customer support whatsoever. These mags must have a protective base pad. Based on my experience with DPMS I would recommend another upper, such as the unit sold by Dillon and Midway.

One other problem you will have to deal with is the 22 rimfire ammo. It is much harder to ignite than .223 centerfire. You will need a stock hammer spring; forget about the triggers that need a light hammer spring; they simply won't work. The Jard trigger I started with that was 100% reliable with .223 was only about 80% reliable with 22 rimfire. I solved this problem by going to an Accuracy Speaks trigger that gives you a crisp 4 lb trigger with a stock hammer spring.

 

[Dan S]

One of my friends purchased the Compass Lake. He is extremely happy with the accuracy, and reliability. He uses it for a rimfire league that shoots at 50 and 100 yards. If you want an accurate unit, this is the route to go.

 

[Gammon]

One of my friends purchased the Compass Lake. He is extremely happy with the accuracy, and reliability. He uses it for a rimfire league that shoots at 50 and 100 yards. If you want an accurate unit, this is the route to go.

Where can I get some info on this unit?

 

[jrbtzx12r]

Where can I get some info on this unit?

Right here http://www.compasslake.com/

Jr

 

[second]

One of my friends purchased the Compass Lake. He is extremely happy with the accuracy, and reliability. He uses it for a rimfire league that shoots at 50 and 100 yards. If you want an accurate unit, this is the route to go.

Wow
those are kinda pricey.

 

[Dan S]

Wow
those are kinda pricey.

They aren't cheap. The people that buy them aren't looking for a plinker to burn up Walmart ammo. They buy them for training, either service rifle or match rifle divisions in highpower.

 

[doobie]

What exactly differs on a dedicated upper? Everyone I know says "get a dedicated upper" And I think I'm now guilty of saying "get a dedicated upper" whenever someone asks about conversion kits....

so beyond having an upper in which you don't need to swap the bolt carrier....how does it differ and are the parts available that a person can build one themself?

 

[cdkayak]

I have a Ciener kit for mine which shoots very well. But,a quality dedicated upper will generally give you better accuracy due to barrel twist and diameter.

.223 is actually .224" and a .22LR is .223", so a barrel designed for .22LR will perform better.

Here's some info on building one:
http://www.nationalmatch.us/forums/index.php?showtopic=6002

 

[benster]

Anyone have any experience with the dedicated uppers from spike's tactical? Whats the usual twist for a .22lr barrel on these dedicated uppers?

http://spikestactical.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=116

 

[Wrath of Gideon]

I got a Spikes M4 Upper back in the beginning of the year. Runs good as long a it is wet and I'm using Wally World Fed bulk 22. It has been too cold for me to really test the accuracy of it, but I'm having a blast plinking at 25 - 40 yards.

The product description says 1x16 twist.

Also note that it is sold in a pre-ban configuration with A2 flash suppressor and bayo lug (if you get the front sight post). My customer service experience was great so I'm sure they can set a MA resident up with a post ban config if you ask. My wait time was about a month from time of order to doorstep.

I'd recommend one. But then again Tactical Solutions is supposed to be coming out with a dedicated 22LR upper...

 

[TonyDedo]

What exactly differs on a dedicated upper? Everyone I know says "get a dedicated upper" And I think I'm now guilty of saying "get a dedicated upper" whenever someone asks about conversion kits....

so beyond having an upper in which you don't need to swap the bolt carrier....how does it differ and are the parts available that a person can build one themself?

I see three major benefits of a dedicated upper over a conversion kit:

One, as cdkayak mentioned, barrel dimensions differ slightly between a proper .223/5.56x45 barrel and a barrel designed for .22LR, and the ideal rifling (twist) inside the barrel is different between the two calibers. As a result, a dedicated upper will be more accurate because it's designed specifically for .22LR.

Also, many will argue that shooting .22LR through a slightly larger .223 barrel will cause excess fouling. Whether or not that's true, .22LR is naturally a dirtier ammunition, and having a dedicated upper will keep you from messing up your .223 barrel every time you want to shoot .22LR. I've also been told that bad things could happen if you shoot .223 through a barrel that's been fouled with .22LR - not sure if that has any merit.

The third benefit is a practical one - because the front and rear sights are both located on the upper assembly of the AR-15, you don't have to sight in a dedicated upper every time you change from .223 to .22LR. In 30 seconds you can switch back and forth between calibers without having to clean, sight, or make any other adjustments.

After doing a lot of research on the subject, I've decided on a dedicated upper from Spike Tactical - I'll post a range report when it arrive in four weeks.

BTW - I was told by customer service at Spike's that they've moved away from the Ceiner bolts and are using their own, based on the same design but finished with nickel instead of phosphorus, which don't need to run as wet as the Ceiner bolts.

 

[kenc]

The Spikes uppers are great I shot a buddy of mines and I was sold on them. I am planning on calling them up and see if they can cut one down to 10.5" for me.

 

[PatMcD]

Typical .22LR twist rate is 1-16 or so. That is probably the best reason for getting a dedicated upper. The usual .223 twist of 1-9 through 1-7 just puts a little too much spin on those lead bullets for top accuracy. One of the old SP1 uppers in 1-12 or 1-14 might be a good compromise if just using a conversion unit.

 

[TomH]

So is there any truth at all to the rumors of a Ciener kit damaging your rifle? It seems like as long as you clean up after using it you're all set.

 

[TonyDedo]

So is there any truth at all to the rumors of a Ciener kit damaging your rifle? It seems like as long as you clean up after using it you're all set.

I've heard the bolt causes excess wear, which is why you have to keep it heavily lubricated. Spike Tactical has modified the design to use a electroless nickel finish on the bolt, which supposedly solves this problem.

Speaking of Spike Tactical, I'm STILL waiting on my upper from them. I placed my order on March 1st after they quoted me a 3-4 week turn around (I was hoping to have it for April's Appleseed). Tomorrow will be 11 weeks. Apparently I ordered just as they were moving to the new bolts, and they had problems with the first lot from the factory.

But in their defense, they've been good with communication, and the website says they started shipping back orders from January on Wednesday, so hopefully I'll have mine soon. I just have no patience for this sort of thing - I can't imagine if I'd ordered in January!