Concealed carry with Target and Sports restriction OK'd by Hull PD; what gives?

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3 years ago my friend applied in Worcester for his LTC Class A and was issued his license with restrictions to Target and Sports. I'm of the opinion that with that restriction concealed carry is prohibited. He moved to Hull 2 years ago and was told at the Hull PD today that Target and Sports gives full rights to carry concealed in MA. I'm confused.

Is the Hull PD just interpreting the Worcester restriction differently? And will my friend invite trouble throughout MA by carrying with the T&S restriction?

Opinions?
 
3 years ago my friend applied in Worcester for his LTC Class A and was issued his license with restrictions to Target and Sports. I'm of the opinion that with that restriction concealed carry is prohibited. He moved to Hull 2 years ago and was told at the Hull PD today that Target and Sports gives full rights to carry concealed in MA. I'm confused.

Is the Hull PD just interpreting the Worcester restriction differently? And will my friend invite trouble throughout MA by carrying with the T&S restriction?

Opinions?

The thing about the restrictions is that they mean whatever the guy who put them on the license wanted them to mean. Cop A may (and often does) have a completely different idea of what "Target and Hunting" means from cop B.

So, yes carrying on any sort of restriction is inviting trouble.


Does anyone know what Sporting really means ?

It means different things to different people. It is not defined in the MGLs as far as I know.
 
They're telling him of the Sporting loophole; that he can claim he's coming back from the range. I just got off the phone with him screaming at him _not_ to listen to them...that he'll be arrested if he's found with a concealed firearm. I can't believe two cops told him directly to do that.
 
They're telling him of the Sporting loophole; that he can claim he's coming back from the range. I just got off the phone with him screaming at him _not_ to listen to them...that he'll be arrested if he's found with a concealed firearm. I can't believe two cops told him directly to do that.

He can claim whatever he wants, but he has no legal leg to stand on.
 
Worcester issued it, Worcester "owns" him until renewal or expiration ( or revocation) and Gemme would never allow CCW on T&H ever IMHO.

If Hull wants to do it on a license they issued, they can do that but I would get it in writing and carry a copy of the letter with me with my license.

Either way if he uses the weapon or is found to be CCW'ing on a T&H license, regardless of where it was issued, expect to be jammed up by the local DA
 
Worcester issued it, Worcester "owns" him until renewal or expiration ( or revocation) and Gemme would never allow CCW on T&H ever IMHO.

If Hull wants to do it on a license they issued, they can do that but I would get it in writing and carry a copy of the letter with me with my license.

Either way if he uses the weapon or is found to be CCW'ing on a T&H license, regardless of where it was issued, expect to be jammed up by the local DA

If Hull was able to get Worcester to expire the License and re-issue with no restrictions he would also have gotten a new LTC. The restrictions are vauge, in theory you can carry concealed during/to/from "sporting" activities

Target and Hunting: Restricts possession to the purpose of lawful recreational shooting or competition; for use in the lawful pursuit of game animals and birds; for personal protection in the home; and for the purpose of collecting (other than machine guns). Includes travel to and from activity location.

Sporting: Restricts possession to the purpose of lawful recreational shooting or competition; for use in the lawful pursuit of game animals and birds; for personal protection in the home; and for the purpose of collecting (other than machine guns); and for outdoor recreational activities such as hiking, camping, cross country skiing, or similar activities. Includes travel to and from activity location.
 
Worcester issued it, Worcester "owns" him until renewal or expiration ( or revocation) and Gemme would never allow CCW on T&H ever IMHO.

If Hull wants to do it on a license they issued, they can do that but I would get it in writing and carry a copy of the letter with me with my license.

Either way if he uses the weapon or is found to be CCW'ing on a T&H license, regardless of where it was issued, expect to be jammed up by the local DA

I agree with this! ^^^^^
 
The restrictions are vauge...

They're more than just vague, they are completely undefined in the MGLs. Not sure where on the internet the definitions you quoted came from but they are legally meaningless.
 
They're more than just vague, they are completely undefined in the MGLs. Not sure where on the internet the definitions you quoted came from but they are legally meaningless.

FRB published them. They only apply to the NR LTCs that they issue, since they are the IA for them. Last I went looking for those definitions I couldn't find them anymore on the state website.

At any rate, you are correct, they hold no legal weight wrt what other cities/towns do.
 
FRB published them. They only apply to the NR LTCs that they issue, since they are the IA for them. Last I went looking for those definitions I couldn't find them anymore on the state website.

At any rate, you are correct, they hold no legal weight wrt what other cities/towns do.

These are the only definitions we have so while they may not be worth anything, they serve at minimum for reference or guidelines for anyone's own information.
 
These are the only definitions we have so while they may not be worth anything, they serve at minimum for reference or guidelines for anyone's own information.

I have to disagree. Someone who, in good faith, follows them as guidelines could very well end up on the wrong side of a set of bars. They are worse than useless and do nothing but add confusion to an already confused situation.
 
The restrictions mean whatever the cop by the side of the road, or the DA in a court room wants them to mean. You can tell your friend to carry at his own risk, but there are plenty of guys on cell block A who got their legal advice from a cop. If he is dealing with a grey area of the law and wants sound advice, contact a lawyer who specializes in MA gun laws
 
Massprudence.

There's a reason that I invented that term. Most of us practice it, but new-to-the-game people do not have it integrated into their systems. It's kind of like safe gun handling - after a while it becomes second nature, but at first, the Rules have to be kept in the forefront of one's mind.

While I agree that the adage, "If it's not prohibited, it's allowed" is the way laws are supposed to work.....but around here, WRT Killy Gun-things, its not reality.
 
On Wednesday, I wrote a column supporting what I believe to be Worcester Police Chief Gary Gemme's judicious approach to handing out gun licenses. A number of readers thought I missed the mark, suggesting that the chief's policy was overly restrictive.

Some noted, for example, that while the state says a felony conviction or misdemeanor conviction punishable by more than two years in prison disqualifies a person from getting a license to carry, the Worcester policy can potentially disqualify a person just on the basis of a felony or misdemeanor arrest.

Readers also noted that in Worcester a person can be denied an LTC if arrested for a domestic issue, or a DUI and affiliation with a person or group with a known criminal issue.

I still stand by my opinion of the chief's policy, but I thought it would be worthwhile to have him speak a little deeper about who qualifies as a “suitable person,” to carry and used a firearm.

Here are some excerpts from my conversations with the chief:

Q: It might be instructive if you were able to share your philosophical approach to issuing LTCs in Worcester, the reasons why you would restrict one person's use while providing unrestrictive use to another.

A: I believe we need to do everything we legally can do to limit the number of guns that are available in the community. This is a public safety imperative that drives our three-pronged strategy (gun buyback program, focusing resources on well known, violent offenders and their associates, and the city's LTC policy).

By identifying unsuitable individuals we keep firearms out of the hands of people who should not have them and by placing reasonable restrictions on an LTC we limit the times and places those gun can be legally carried.

Q: One reader ... suggested that in Worcester the unrestrictive (LTC) category is further marginalized with such designations as “self protection” only.

A: A LTC for personal protection does not have restrictions. A restriction on LTC would be sporting, target, employment, etc.

A person with an LTC for personal protection could use the firearm for sporting, target shooting, employment, and carry it on their person twenty-four seven. A person with a restriction would be limited to specific designations. For example, a LTC for sporting or target shooting would prohibit that individual from having their weapon on their person at 2 a.m. when they are drinking in a bar.

Q: Is it possible for an applicant to have committed one or more of these (local) disqualifying actions and still receive an LTC?

A: When I review an application for an LTC, I examine all the available reports, affidavits, statements, pictures and documents that are available. Every applicant has a unique history and each case is decided on the facts and circumstances that are available.

Without being too specific, a report of a fistfight 10 years ago between friends that was dismissed in court is different from a 10-year-old domestic assault where the investigating officer documented severe head injuries to the victim and medical treatment was provided, but the case was dismissed.

Q: It would seem that ... not all misdemeanor arrests ... are weighted the same in your judgment.

A: You are correct in that not all incidents can be viewed in the same light. Their are facts that are specific to each case that when you look at the totality of the information a decision is made as to suitability.

Q: Given that the possession of a small amount of marijuana in Massachusetts has been decriminalized, could a person who is fined for (possessing) an ounce or less of marijuana be disqualified for an LTC in Worcester.

A: A person that was arrested for a small amount of marijuana would not be summarily disqualified from obtaining an LTC.

Q: As you know, kids can't choose their siblings and parents can't always prevent their children from acting stupidly or criminally. As such, could an LTC be denied to a person who grew up in a home with a sibling who is a felon, or to a parent who has a child with a criminal history?

A: Same as with marijuana, a person with a clean record would not be disqualified because of their relationship with a person with a criminal re
 
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LTC -A with target restriction allow him to conceal to and back from home to range.
In addition, in MA you can re apply even if your current LTC has not expire, even in the same town.

Reds


"Exclusivity is for Everyone, try us! you'll find us refreshing".

This depends on your town. In Newton, my friend has a Target and Hunting license, he is allowed to concealed carry to and from the range (the letter his licensing officer gave me explicitly allows concealed carry to the range). I got my LTC in Boston, BPD makes it clear that the restricted licenses that they issue allow no concealed carry. It's pretty sad that if I lived just 10 miles further from Boston than I do, I could have gotten an unrestricted LTC no problem.
 
I think some PDs have changed to issueing LTCs unrestrited because (sporting and Target) is to open ended.It really makes no sense to charge someone 100 bucks and give them a restricted license either.Plus if your pulled over by the police and you have a pistol on you really how can you prove your sporting or targeting? I like to go out to western mass in the woods with my 2 dogs.If i am pulled over and had sporting and target how could i prove it? I cant i am also sure some people must have been dragged into court for carrying outside there purpose.What a mess those cases must be? I would think it would be more work than the cops need to try to make any charge really stick in a lot of cases. I use to have sporting and target and never would take a pstol with me.I dont need that crap or foolishness to risk going threw.I always felt like i could get screwd at any time.What a terrible way for a legal gun owner to feel
 
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I got my LTC in Boston, BPD makes it clear that the restricted licenses that they issue allow no concealed carry.
I don't think my Boston letter said anything specific about that. However, I'm going to try and get them to put it in writing.
 
They're telling him of the Sporting loophole; that he can claim he's coming back from the range. I just got off the phone with him screaming at him _not_ to listen to them...that he'll be arrested if he's found with a concealed firearm. I can't believe two cops told him directly to do that.

I think that carry on a restriction may be a citable rather than arrestable offense.
 
This crap again.... Its a citation. Name me ONE instance of someone being hit with a restriction violation and it sticking. I don't know of any....

Restrictions are vague, not defined in the MGL and frankly no one except all the worry warts here care about them. Carry on.
 
This crap again.... Its a citation. Name me ONE instance of someone being hit with a restriction violation and it sticking. I don't know of any....

Restrictions are vague, not defined in the MGL and frankly no one except all the worry warts here care about them. Carry on.

The fact that people don't tend to violate the restrictions is a tribute to the law abiding nature of persons who go through the licensing process. In practice, the most likely outcome is revocation of the license and no criminal charges.

What do you think the Brookline, Boston or Springfield licensing officer would do after getting a report of a licensee carrying outside of the restriction? Ignore it or something else?
 
This crap again.... Its a citation. Name me ONE instance of someone being hit with a restriction violation and it sticking. I don't know of any....

Restrictions are vague, not defined in the MGL and frankly no one except all the worry warts here care about them. Carry on.
One.
 
If you could get them to put in writing that they allow concealed carry I would love to have that letter. It's a pretty big bummer to have something that says "License to Carry" and doesn't actually allow me to carry.
 
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