Concealed Carry and posted locations.

[dhuze]

I am working in Virginia and I was carrying a concealed handgun when I went Christmas shopping. I was going into Sears and I looked for a notice stating no firearms allowed. I saw none and went inside. After I finished in Sears I walked around the mall. When I went down one of the exit wings I went out to look for a sign again. There was a Rules of Conduct sign. On it, it stated no firearms or other weapons. What is the legality of carrying inside when it's not posted where you enter, but it is elsewhere? What do you do, leave and store the firearm? Thats what I did, just wondering what others would do? Stay and argue the case if somehow you were found out?

 

[DukeNukem]

All Simon owned malls have the same. I started a thread on here about it about a year ago. It's not a law, just their policy so pending being made carrying concealed and asked to leave I wouldn't worry. I even called goal, they couldn't have been less interested.

 

[appraiser]

It varies from state to state.

Some states have laws against it if it is posted, and others have no laws against it.

A state like NH that has no laws regarding being able to exclude firearms by signage, the property owners remedy IF you were made, would be to ask you to leave, and if you didn't you are subject to a trespass charge.

example West Virginia:
Q. Are there places where I am prohibited from carrying a concealed weapon?

A. Yes. Weapons are forbidden in courthouses, family law masters office, magistrate’s office, primary and secondary school property including school buses. Any facility that is being used for a primary or secondary school function while that function is going on. Anywhere a sign is posted saying No Firearms Allowed. The signs do not have to be of any set size or design. All Federal restrictions apply. Firearms are not permitted in federal buildings, post offices, military compounds, federal courthouses, and the like.

 

[mark056]

Like Glockaholic says it varies from state to state. In Massachusetts signage is not binding, but if it is discovered that you are carrying and are asked to leave and you don't, you can be prosecuted for trespassing. Your best bet is to check out the VA laws.

 

[appraiser]

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/virginia.pdf

Private property when prohibited by the owner of the property, or where posted as prohibited. Violation is a trespass charge and not a firearms violation. § 18.2-308

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308.

 

[appraiser]

in VA no concealed carry allowed in bars/restaurants while consuming adult beverages

J3. No person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in § 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia may consume an alcoholic beverage while on the premises. A person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of such a restaurant or club and consumes alcoholic beverages is guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor. However, nothing in this subsection shall apply to a federal, state, or local law-enforcement officer.

 

[dhuze]

My point was it is not posted where I initially entered the property. It is posted at the main mall entrances, but not from the anchor stores.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

in VA no carry allowed in bars/restaurants while consuming adult beverages

J3. No person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in § 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia may consume an alcoholic beverage while on the premises. A person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of such a restaurant or club and consumes alcoholic beverages is guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor. However, nothing in this subsection shall apply to a federal, state, or local law-enforcement officer.

And so what folks do is tuck their shirt in behind the gun so that it's no longer concealed. Someone I knew who went to Georgetown law actually did this on occasion.

 

[Mr Weebles]

I ignore those signs. Worst that can happen is I'm asked to leave.

 

[expedition03]

I have a better idea, if you are carrying concealed, just not let anyone see your firearm! If they don't see, they can't say anything! Anyways, if you are carrying concealed, it's not suppose to be seen anyways.

 

[Coyote33]

And so what folks do is tuck their shirt in behind the gun so that it's no longer concealed. Someone I knew who went to Georgetown law actually did this on occasion.

It used to be in MA that you HAD TO have it partially exposed. This was when I was a kid. I remember my father going out and doing the shirt tuck thing, so it wouldn't look like you were trying to conceal something. I'd guesstimate early 70's.

 

[Jose]

My point was it is not posted where I initially entered the property. It is posted at the main mall entrances, but not from the anchor stores.

Then you never saw the sign.

I never read those mall "rules of conduct" things and I avoid using the mall entrances for the same reason.

If you didn't see it upon entering, you have not been notified and it is not trespass.

 

[Jose]

I ignore those signs. Worst that can happen is I'm asked to leave.

In NH. In other places, not so much.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

All Simon owned malls have the same. I started a thread on here about it about a year ago. It's not a law, just their policy so pending being made carrying concealed and asked to leave I wouldn't worry. I even called goal, they couldn't have been less interested.

I ignore those signs. Worst that can happen is I'm asked to leave.

neither of these responses are robust enough to give what one would deem "correct information"...

For example, all Simon malls may have that signage, but in some states it is binding. And the end result, if something were to go wrong, is much worse than being asked to leave.......

 

[Mr Weebles]

neither of these responses are robust enough to give what one would deem "correct information"...

Relying on any of my posts for "correct information" is a sucker's bet.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

For example, all Simon malls may have that signage, but in some states it is binding. And the end result, if something were to go wrong, is much worse than being asked to leave.......

It depends on the state. In some states, violation of binding signage becomes an offense only if you refuse to leave when ordered to do so. As to "much worse" - it depends completely on the state. In MN, you risk a $25 fine, and then only if you refuse to leave. And, in one state (AZ) binding signage in a alcohol licensed establishment is only binding if you are a resident of that state and not binding on non-residents (yes, really).

In general, you will tend to find "binding signage" law in "new-era shall-issue carry states" like Texas and AZ. "Old carry permit states" where permits existed to prevent minorities from carrying (NY, MA, RI, etc.) tend not to have such laws.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

in VA no concealed carry allowed in bars/restaurants while consuming adult beverages

J3. No person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in § 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia may consume an alcoholic beverage while on the premises. A person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of such a restaurant or club and consumes alcoholic beverages is guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor. However, nothing in this subsection shall apply to a federal, state, or local law-enforcement officer.

This is just plain bizarre. No carry while consuming is logical, and, while we disagree with it, no carry for anyone except LEO has a basis in logic. I can't see any basis in logic for allowing federal, state and local LE to drink while carrying when it's banned for civilians unless there is a limited carveout for official duty while necessary to maintain an undercover identity.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

Relying on any of my posts for "correct information" is a sucker's bet.

then why share it all? what benefit is there to spreading misinformation?

 

[Mr Weebles]

then why share it all? what benefit is there to spreading misinformation?

There was no misinformation. I do in fact ignore those signs.

Tell you what, next time I want to post on NES I''ll PM you first to make sure it's OK with you. How's that?

 

[dhuze]

This is just plain bizarre. No carry while consuming is logical, and, while we disagree with it, no carry for anyone except LEO has a basis in logic. I can't see any basis in logic for allowing federal, state and local LE to drink while carrying when it's banned for civilians unless there is a limited carveout for official duty while necessary to maintain an undercover identity.

You mean this might happen?