Comm2A, SAF, GOAL and FPC file against Baker admin on shop closures

[zork51]

I would ask if crime has decreased or if enforcement has decreased, giving the perception that crime is down.

I don't think the Second Amendment or the exercise of this amendment applying to citizens was established based on "trends" of either increases or decreases in the current crime rate. I don't believe criminals are posting a schedule of "planned activities and field trips" so we can "plan" when to exercise the Second Amendment accordingly, God Forbid if necessary. Nor is it fair to close off all avenues (range shutdowns) for those who exercise this right to practice and remain proficient in the safe operation and proper handling of their firearm of choice.

 

[CAR]

And now, they are butt hurt about the fire mission and no longer want the whole thing to be decided on merit. They want the ability to cross examine evidence as needed.

Maybe the judge will save the trouble - Comm2A’s response already pointed out that the AG’s statement about ammo being available is heresay and inadmissible. The affidavits are only needed if the judge disagrees with that position. Just toss out the whole statement about ammo being available and proceed without it. See how their position works out then...

 

[Drix]

Update, they filed. Here it is.

Edit: "They" is only Terry M. Basically just says "I was responsible for posting things, and I was given the original version, then shortly given a corrected version, which corrected a mistake made by a staffer".

I believe Baker and other defendants are still required to submit their own affidavits?

"Mistake"

And now, they are butt hurt about the fire mission and no longer want the whole thing to be decided on merit. They want the ability to cross examine evidence as needed.

Well, when you get caught lying...
States only goal is to drag this out, and they want to drag it out to prove gun sales are bad and close up some ffl's.

 

[vicorjh]

"Mistake"

The state (Healy) certainly seems to make alot of "mistakes" when it comes to firearms.

 

[Dadstoys]

I suppose it would be drifting off target to bring up that he first denied gun shops any of the relief money even before this?
Or would it.
Seems to speak to intent.

 

[Boston4567]

Following on PACER, doesn't appear to be any action from the state yet. But a nice submission from Attorney Foley showing clearly that the essential services list was changed.

FYI - if you download the RECAP Chrome extension (see here: RECAP), when you download stuff on PACER it will automatically upload it for everyone to view for free here: Docket for MCCARTHY v. BAKER, 1:20-cv-10701 - CourtListener.com

Once they're uploaded you can link to documents directly on the RECAP site (courtlistener.com).

If we all share the load hopefully we each can stay under the limit so we aren't charged . It's probably too late for me unfortunately.

 

[Drix]

Maybe gun shops could put a little snack tray in the corner, or sell a few rolls of TP. That way they could remain open as an essential business.

The only FFL I need:

 

[CAR]

I suppose it would be drifting off target to bring up that he first denied gun shops any of the relief money even before this?
Or would it.
Seems to speak to intent.

They got you covered Comm2A, you guys are killing it with these responses!

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mad.220718/gov.uscourts.mad.220718.23.0.pdf

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

FYI - if you download the RECAP Chrome extension (see here: RECAP), when you download stuff on PACER it will automatically upload it for everyone to view for free here: Docket for MCCARTHY v. BAKER, 1:20-cv-10701 - CourtListener.com

Once they're uploaded you can link to documents directly on the RECAP site (courtlistener.com).

If we all share the load hopefully we each can stay under the limit so we aren't charged . It's probably too late for me unfortunately.

I've been meaning to post a little info on PACER and how to use RECAP. RECAP also has a FireFox extension for people like me. RECAP has recently added an alert function so that you can get an email when a case record has been updated. That alone makes it worth having.

For those who don't know, PACER stands for Public Access to Court Electronic Records. PACER faces a lot of criticism over it's fees and has been the subject of several lawsuits. Why should we have to pay for access to public records? And that's why RECAP and CourtListener are so helpful. PACER fees under $30 a quarter are waived, so most PACER accounts never get charged. But if folks are using RECAP, the documents they access going into the public (free) archive. Comm2A has a PACER account and we try to keep our dockets RECAP'd for folks. And yes, we exceed our free limit every quarter. But we're very happy that folks are taking this level of interest in what the courts are doing, so it's money well spent.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

They got you covered Comm2A, you guys are killing it with these responses!

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mad.220718/gov.uscourts.mad.220718.23.0.pdf

Thanks, but Cedrone is the NON-Comm2A lawsuit.

 

[CAR]

Thanks, but Cedrone is the NON-Comm2A lawsuit.

Crud, sorry about that. I thought I finally had them straight. My comment still stands about your work.

 

[Waher]

Cedrone is laying it on pretty thick

View: https://twitter.com/2Aupdates/status/1256335966148546560

I really hope this is a case when the Commonwealth's rush to engage in f***ery backfires so badly several of their previously carefully built houses of cards come crashing down.

 

[BigGreen2000]

Nice job Comm2A! I like how you really emphasized “text, history, and tradition” of the 2nd amendment, rather than any sort of interest-balancing test. As Alan Gura himself would have suggested. Also love the reference to Orwell’s “1984.” Think the defendants will get that one? ;-)

 

[Dadstoys]

They got you covered Comm2A, you guys are killing it with these responses!

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mad.220718/gov.uscourts.mad.220718.23.0.pdf

Well damn , that covers it all.

 

[Boston4567]

Cedrone is laying it on pretty thick

View: https://twitter.com/2Aupdates/status/1256335966148546560

I really hope this is a case when the Commonwealth's rush to engage in f***ery backfires so badly several of their previously carefully built houses of cards come crashing down.

Yikes. Abbreviating the Defendants as "the CW" (presumably meaning the Commonwealth) without any reference is not a good look in a federal court case. How much extra effort would it have been to write out the word?

The Cedrone plaintiffs just should have stayed out of this.

Edit: Still reading through the Cedrone reply. It is a complete mess. It might as well be written in crayon. Basic stuff like not closing open quotation marks, reiterating conclusory sentences with no value, misplacing arguments about one item under another. For example:

Defendant’s urge this Court to review the, “Orders under, at most, intermediate scrutiny, and to uphold them under that standard. Defendants’ Opposition pg. 8. Adopting this standard would be incorrect, as intermediate scrutiny is not the appropriate level of review for this case.

^What value did that add to their argument?

I just hope the judge reads Comm2a's brief first.

 

[Lank]

If that is true, that is vindictive x 1000..

Baker, Moorah, et al's plan is to bankrupt the LGS. This cannot be disputed.

 

[Boston4567]

The Cedrone plaintiffs need to fire their lawyer. If we lose, they will be the reason.

I report, you decide:

Defendants argue that because they have not seized the firearms of anyone who owned them, or prohibited those individuals from using them, that the Order does not violate the Second Amendment; it does.

^ Very persuasive argument.

The Strict Scrutiny standard[...]

[...]was Constitutionally impermissible.

^ This is not how capitalization works with these terms. And they aren't even consistent about it.

Despite this fact, Defendants argue that because this remote possibility exists, they haven’t implicated the core right protected by the Second Amendment; such argument is laughable. It is laughable, because it would be no different than if Defendants had outlawed protected medical procedures and then argued such conduct is permissible because individuals could still find an unlicensed practitioner to conduct the procedure in a back alley.

^ This is not a coherent comparison. Maura's argument that private sales are still legal is not comparable to advocating for illegal activity.

Thus, it is logical to infer, given the foregoing, if a challenged regulation strikes at the core of the Second Amendment, the appropriate standard of review would be strict scrutiny.
[...]
Plaintiffs who operate properly licensed businesses could, and would, follow the guidelines which have been, and may be, implemented.

^ Holy commas, Batman!

There are two distinct types of ammunition in the world; personal defense and so called range ammo.3
[...]3 Why Range Ammo Is A Terrible Choice For Self-Defense - The Truth About Guns

^ Footnoting thetruthaboutguns.com as a source in a federal court case is not a good idea.

Because of this, and the motivation which drove Defendants to issue such an order, the Order cannot stand.

^ Impugning the motives of the government without evidence in a federal court case is not a good idea.

It is telling that Defendants were forced to rely upon a case which was settle 118 years ago to support their position.

^ Proofreading is important. Also, that case was not settled, it was ruled upon by SCOTUS. Also, the age of a decision does not make it bad law. See, e.g., Marbury v. Madison (1803), Cf. Quill Corp. v. North Dakota (1992).

 

[csobrien]

Obviously IANAL.

Important disclaimers aside, I don’t think the writing in the Cedrone brief is what it could be. My understanding is Courts, in their humanity, aren’t typically pumped to be told how limited their powers are without some more artful language to couch the message. Plus the CW thing, a stray quotation mark left unedited and probably other things that having another attorney editor/reviewer would’ve caught.

It’s the kind of blunt (correct) talk about the bill of rights that appeals to people like us. I have no way of knowing how much it will appeal to the good judge.


Edit: Err, what 4567 said ^

 

[fshalor]

I just wish healey et al would admit that their goal is to is to bankrupt independent LGS. Think about it, from a tyrants perspective. It is far easier to deal with Cabelas and Walmart than perhaps dozens of independent shops not under the thumb of corporate board of directors.

So The Mill horrifies them?

 

[rommel]

After reading the past 2 pages, all I can say is thank you Comm2a, proud that I donate every month.

 

[Cap'n Mike]

I think that was me in the Ramos thread. The SJC is infamous for this, at least in gun cases. But if you think about it, SCOTUS effectively did the same thing in Miller.

Very much what SCOTUS did in Miller, cherry picked a case to make the National Firearms Act Constitutional.

 

[Celtics617]

Yikes. Abbreviating the Defendants as "the CW" (presumably meaning the Commonwealth) without any reference is not a good look in a federal court case. How much extra effort would it have been to write out the word?

The Cedrone plaintiffs just should have stayed out of this.

Edit: Still reading through the Cedrone reply. It is a complete mess. It might as well be written in crayon. Basic stuff like not closing open quotation marks, reiterating conclusory sentences with no value, misplacing arguments about one item under another. For example:



^What value did that add to their argument?

I just hope the judge reads Comm2a's brief first.

yeah I’m glad I wasn’t the only one thinking this. Looks like a guy on here wrote it.

 

[Waher]

yeah I’m glad I wasn’t the only one thinking this. Looks like a guy on here wrote it.

NES on average writes better than that in professional settings compared to banter on the forum. I'm really worried the GOA case will blow it with bad precedent.

 

[JJ4]

NES on average writes better than that in professional settings compared to banter on the forum. I'm really worried the GOA case will blow it with bad precedent.

I wonder if they have been asked to step back and declined to do so?

As far as I can tell, we were very lucky that the comm2a case was filed first, by a matter of hours, so that it became the primary case.

I still don't know what happened with the 7/20/2016 issue - I personally suspect that NSSF and GOAL cases got there first so we never even had a comm2a case. I could be way off base.

 

[terraformer]

It’s the kind of blunt (correct) talk about the bill of rights that appeals to people like us. I have no way of knowing how much it will appeal to the good judge.

It won’t at all. Woodlock doesn’t suffer fools gladly. But he knows how to compartmentalize so it shouldn’t rub off. I doubt the Cedrone case will get much air time in the hearing.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

...I still don't know what happened with the 7/20/2016 issue - I personally suspect that NSSF and GOAL cases got there first so we never even had a comm2a case. I could be way off base.

There were two federal cases following the AG's actions on 7/20/2016. NSSF filed a vagness suit on behalf of several retailers. That's largely been resolved in that the retailers have a clearer understanding of what the AG says they can sell.

The GOAL suit (Worman v. Healey) is a facial attach on the AWB itself. The Worman challenge was actually organized by Comm2A although we are not a plaintiff. There's really nothing to add at this point. Worman was distributed for the justices' conference yesterday , May 1st. We could know it's fate as early as Monday morning.

 

[JJ4]

The GOAL suit (Worman v. Healey) is a facial attach on the AWB itself. The Worman challenge was actually organized by Comm2A although we are not a plaintiff. There's really nothing to add at this point. Worman was distributed for the justices' conference yesterday , May 1st. We could know it's fate as early as Monday morning.

I stand corrected, thanks. I missed that somehow. Fingers crossed for good news.

 

[Coyote33]

I charge just about everything to my Master card. I pay it off each month and just use it to record my spending and get the bennies.
This April, in spite of building a deck with over 800$ in lumber and fasteners, the total CC was $1800.00 lower than normal.

Let me ask, how much deck does $800 get you? 10X12? Just curious. I want to build a deck, but am afraid to go down that road.

Thanks.

Worman was distributed for the justices' conference yesterday , May 1st. We could know it's fate as early as Monday

Do they "work on it" over the weekend? Or is it something they decide on Friday, and just "present" on Monday? Do they talk between themselves, or do anything Saturday and Sunday?

Only asking, because I'm not sure how this works.

 

[Boston4567]

Let me ask, how much deck does $800 get you? 10X12? Just curious. I want to build a deck, but am afraid to go down that road.

Thanks.



Do they "work on it" over the weekend? Or is it something they decide on Friday, and just "present" on Monday? Do they talk between themselves, or do anything Saturday and Sunday?

Only asking, because I'm not sure how this works.

They have the conference session on Friday and make the decisions. The decisions are announced to the public in an order list on Monday.

It will show up here when it's released: 2019 Term Court Orders

 

[Drix]

There were two federal cases following the AG's actions on 7/20/2016. NSSF filed a vagness suit on behalf of several retailers. That's largely been resolved in that the retailers have a clearer understanding of what the AG says they can sell.

Does this mean I can get my MGI Hydra stripped lower now?