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Cleanest 9mm powder?

*chris*

*chris*

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Recently picked up a gen 2 KelTec Sub 2k which is pretty awesome, but being a left-handed shooter I am getting unburnt powder in my face. Right now I am using 124gn bullets with HS-6 powder.

I am wondering if a faster powder would burn more completely or what my other options are. I have W231, Unique, and some VV320 in my inventory.

I was just going to sell it, but it really is a huge improvement above the Gen1 and I enjoy shooting it.

Chris
 
I've run a few magazines through a friend's Sub 2K, and the powder and smoke up the nose was annoying enough as a righty, I can't imagine shooting it left handed!

The unburnt powder shower is a known "feature" of the Sub 2K, if you have a good camera you can catch a puff of fire out the ejection port; the straight blowback action doesn't keep the breech closed long enough.

Have you checked your OAL? seating the bullet shallow (long OAL) can reduce peak pressure, resulting in more unburnt powder.
 
Dirty Vs unburt is two different things.
When I experienced unburt propellant it was caused by mouse fart loads or an insufficient crimp. Depending on the cartridge. Both resulted in a lack of sufficient pressure for a complete burn.
Most of the time it was with .45ACP.
 
Bill, I will work on a N320 load and see if that makes a difference.

Kevin, I wonder if it makes sense to put in a spacer or a stronger recoil spring? Maybe a faster burning powder would actually make the problem worse now that I think about it.

I use a case gauge so they are within spec, but I don't have my reloading notes in front of me. They are mild loads to make USPSA minor with a 10% cushion so there isn't excess powder in there.

Chris
 
I would go Vhit N320 like bill says or try Win WST if you are loading up mouse fart loads for it, it's pretty clean too.

A Sub2K is a bad gun for a lefty. Friend of mine has one in .40 and never shoots it because no matter what ammo he ran in it, it spits in his face....

-Mike
 
Definitely N320 out of the powders you listed. I switched to N320 over the summer from Titegroup and I love the cleaniless and how well it meters. Not to mention no more stained 9mm cases from TG.

I use 3.9 or 4 gr of N320 with 124/125 gr JHP from Precision Delta or Zero. Works well enough for me.
 
drgrant said:
try Win WST if you are loading up mouse fart loads for it, it's pretty clean too.
Click to expand...

I've never tried WST but when I was at a steel plate shoot in CT last month, there were a few USPSA shooters there and this guy was using 147 gr blue bullets with 2.7 gr? of WST if I heard him correctly. WOW, he was blazing fast in shooting down the plates. He was using a glock and it looked like he was shooting a 22. There was basically zero recoil which allowed him to transition very fast. He wouldn't tell me what they were chronoed at, but my guess is that they were definitely below power factor (which didn't matter as they weren't chronoing loads at this steel plate shoot). He had no issues beating guys with fancy open pistols with optics.

Anyway, didn't mean to derail the thread. Just wanted to note my observations of WST.
 
andrew1220 said:
I've never tried WST but when I was at a steel plate shoot in CT last month, there were a few USPSA shooters there and this guy was using 147 gr blue bullets with 2.7 gr? of WST if I heard him correctly. WOW, he was blazing fast in shooting down the plates. He was using a glock and it looked like he was shooting a 22. There was basically zero recoil which allowed him to transition very fast. He wouldn't tell me what they were chronoed at, but my guess is that they were definitely below power factor (which didn't matter as they weren't chronoing loads at this steel plate shoot). He had no issues beating guys with fancy open pistols with optics.

Anyway, didn't mean to derail the thread. Just wanted to note my observations of WST.
Click to expand...

I believe that there is no more power factor at steel matches. Choosing a powder based on another shooter's performance can be misleading. A pistol can be highly modified without any external signs and the shooter can be so good that he would win with any powder. Your best option would be to seek some advice from this shooter.

PS I believe HS6 and 231 are the same and also my favorite powder for all non magnum loads. Not exactly the cleanest powder available but good enough for me.
 
A wise man once rounded up the unburnt powder at the GOAL shoot at Harvard. Then took his lighter, lit it, and proceeded to run the fire around the unburned powder. Nothing happened. It isn't unburned powder you are dealing with. It is the garbage left over after ignition.
 
Gammon said:
I believe that there is no more power factor at steel matches. Choosing a powder based on another shooter's performance can be misleading. A pistol can be highly modified without any external signs and the shooter can be so good that he would win with any powder. Your best option would be to seek some advice from this shooter.

PS I believe HS6 and 231 are the same and also my favorite powder for all non magnum loads. Not exactly the cleanest powder available but good enough for me.
Click to expand...

I was referring to power factor for USPSA as that's what he shoots mostly. But yeah you're right, he could have had a highly modified glock.

And HS6 and 231 are definitely NOT the same powder. HS6 is much slower burning when you look at the burn rate chart as a comparison.
http://www.lapua.com/upload/reloading/reloadingburningratechart2011.pdf
 
Indeed, I think you meant to post that Hodgdon's HP-38 and Winchester's 231 are the same powder. HS-6 is another animal altogether.
WST isn't going to give you top velocities, but it is advertised to be cooler burning than most other powders; at least that's what I gleaned from their literature...somewhere.
 
gerrycaruso said:
My godson has that rifle in 9mm and although it has all the charm of an aluminum tent stake it didn't bother me shooting it lefty.
Click to expand...

The funny thing is I had a Gen 1 one that was no problem to shoot, it was just uncomfortable. I now have the redesigned Gen2 which is comfortable but not enjoyable to shoot.

I try building a new load and see if it is just the powder I am running, I ran some factory Aguila ammo and that was better than my HS6 reloads.

Chris
 
andrew1220 said:
I've never tried WST but when I was at a steel plate shoot in CT last month, there were a few USPSA shooters there and this guy was using 147 gr blue bullets with 2.7 gr? of WST if I heard him correctly. WOW, he was blazing fast in shooting down the plates. He was using a glock and it looked like he was shooting a 22. There was basically zero recoil which allowed him to transition very fast. He wouldn't tell me what they were chronoed at, but my guess is that they were definitely below power factor (which didn't matter as they weren't chronoing loads at this steel plate shoot). He had no issues beating guys with fancy open pistols with optics.

Anyway, didn't mean to derail the thread. Just wanted to note my observations of WST.
Click to expand...
2.7 gr of WST seems very low However if he was using 3.7 then he was comfotably making minor Power Factor with a 147gr bullet. 900fps with a 147 gr bullet translates to a 139+ Power Factor. I use 3.6 gr of Titegroup under a 147gr Bayou bullet which gives me a 131PF with very little recoil and very good accuracy.

It is however DIRTY in my G34. I'm working on some VV N320 loads now.
 
andrew1220 said:
I've never tried WST but when I was at a steel plate shoot in CT last month, there were a few USPSA shooters there and this guy was using 147 gr blue bullets with 2.7 gr? of WST if I heard him correctly. WOW, he was blazing fast in shooting down the plates. He was using a glock and it looked like he was shooting a 22. There was basically zero recoil which allowed him to transition very fast. He wouldn't tell me what they were chronoed at, but my guess is that they were definitely below power factor (which didn't matter as they weren't chronoing loads at this steel plate shoot). He had no issues beating guys with fancy open pistols with optics.

Anyway, didn't mean to derail the thread. Just wanted to note my observations of WST.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you were shooting against "Fast Eddie"!
 
I bought some CFE Pistol Powder a while ago. I have heard is is suppose to be clean however I haven't tried it yet.

Call me old school but I shoot thousands of 9mm a year with W231. I don't think it is that dirty and I never see any evidence of residual or un-burned powder.
 
Has anyone tried BR-5 from gibrass.com?

gibrass.com said:
BR-5 Recently acquired. Brand new, current production. This is a double-based ball
type powder, originally intended for 9x19mm ammo. Meters very consistently.
Burning rate is similar to Hercules Unique, which data can be used. Additional
data available on request. Clean burning with consistent results.
This is new powder, not pulldown.
$100/6# jug
Click to expand...
 
Good results at the range today, loaded some 124gn bullets with 4 grains of N320. Super clean burning and not smokey at all. I maybe have found my new go to powder for 9mm.

Thanks for the help,
Chris
 
You need to be careful because the quantity is so small, but Clays can be used in light 9mm loads. It is very clean.

I use mostly AA5 for 9mm and it can be dirty on lighter loads.

When I use AA5 for .300 blk, it burns totally perfectly clean.

Quickload shows my .300 Blk load with a 100% powder burn.

It shows the burn at 84% burn for my 9mm reloads.
 
Last edited:
Is anyone aware of a true clean powder burning comparison? Most of what I've read seem to be subjective judgments. for example has anyone loaded 100 rounds of different powders with similar ballistic speeds and then photographed a clean gun after using each of the groups of ammo?
 

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