Class A Unrestricted and Large Capacity

[Pistol_Pete]

I've searched online and the forums to no avail; can someone answer me this -

In MA, Large Capacity is defined as:
"A weapon is large capacity if it is a semi-automatic handgun or rifle that is capable of accepting (or readily modifiable to accept) any detachable large capacity feeding device that holds more than ten rounds, OR if it is a shotgun capable of accepting more than five shotgun shells, OR if it is an assault weapon."

I purchased a Ruger SR9c, which comes with a 17 round and a 10 round mag in just about every other state, but here in MA it came with two 10 round mags.

So my questions are, why can I not purchase a pistol with a magazine that has a capacity of more than 10 rounds? I posses a unrestricted Class A, yet I'm subject to this restriction.

What about pre-ban? If someone doesn't have an unrestricted Class A, would they not be allowed to purchase or posses a magazine of 10 rounds or more?

If my license allows me to carry and posses what MA defines as a large capacity, do mags HAVE to be pre-ban to be 'MA Legal'?

 

[DJ_2]

yes


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[Pistol_Pete]

Thanks for adding nothing to the discussion.

 

[Fixxah]

I'm guessing they don't have pre-ban mags for it. Therefore limited to 10 rounders. My apologies in advance for my two cents.

 

[Kevlar]

Welcome to NES!

So my questions are, why can I not purchase a pistol with a magazine that has a capacity of more than 10 rounds?

You can, providing the magazine was manufactured prior to 9/13/94.

I posses a unrestricted Class A, yet I'm subject to this restriction. If someone doesn't have an unrestricted Class A, would they not be allowed to purchase or posses a magazine of 10 rounds or more?

"Restricted" or "Unrestricted" only refers to your ability to carry. Restrictions are irrelevant regarding magazine capacity.

What about pre-ban?...If my license allows me to carry and posses what MA defines as a large capacity, do mags HAVE to be pre-ban to be 'MA Legal'?

Yes.



ETA: To clarify, it's the type of license that determines the legality of possessing "large capacity" firearms and magazines...

LTC-A allows possession of large capacity handguns, rifles, shotguns and large capacity magazines.
LTC-B allows possession of non-large capacity handguns, large capacity rifles/shotguns, and large capacity magazines for rifles/shotguns only.
FID-C allows possession of non-large capacity rifles/shotguns, and non-large capacity magazines.
FID-D allows possession of defensive sprays only.

 

[SheepDog_B]

I've searched online and the forums to no avail; can someone answer me this -

In MA, Large Capacity is defined as:
"A weapon is large capacity if it is a semi-automatic handgun or rifle that is capable of accepting (or readily modifiable to accept) any detachable large capacity feeding device that holds more than ten rounds, OR if it is a shotgun capable of accepting more than five shotgun shells, OR if it is an assault weapon."

I purchased a Ruger SR9c, which comes with a 17 round and a 10 round mag in just about every other state, but here in MA it came with two 10 round mags.

So my questions are, why can I not purchase a pistol with a magazine that has a capacity of more than 10 rounds? I posses a unrestricted Class A, yet I'm subject to this restriction.
Yes. It's a Mass law.

What about pre-ban? If someone doesn't have an unrestricted Class A, would they not be allowed to purchase or posses a magazine of 10 rounds or more?

Don't get too caught up in what rights your Class A entitles you to. The only high-cap mags you should own are of the pre-ban kind. (do most people that own a 10/22 have high cap mags? Most likely. They generally go from the safe to the range and that's it.

Now don't get your hands on the 17 rd SR9 mags and go walking around with that concealed if that's what your thinking, you'll be in hot water if you ever used it. (assuming you're licensed in MA)

Class B shouldn't be buying or possesing large cap and A should only be possesing and purchasing pre-bans.
Link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban


If my license allows me to carry and posses what MA defines as a large capacity, do mags HAVE to be pre-ban to be 'MA Legal'?

I'm sure someone will chime in with the details but, this is just a quickie.
Yes. I think it can very from gun to gun. A pistol will be mass compliant or it will not, if it is, you'll get your 10 max (usually I beLIEve) mag.

 

[DJ_2]

Thanks for adding nothing to the discussion.

""edit"". (removed my stupid comment after taking time to actually read OP's entire post... sorry)

I'm no expert, but if you did a search of the forum you'll find many discussions about this topic. Here's my take on it all....

If you buy an "approved" Large Cap Gun and you are able to find a pre ban mag then your set. I'd suggest buying a Glock since there always seem to be "pre ban's" available.

""edit"" (removed my stupid comment after taking time to actually read OP's entire post... sorry)




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[GSG]

"Restricted" or "Unrestricted" only refers to your ability to carry. Restrictions are irrelevant regarding magazine capacity.

I'd just like to point out that restrictions mean whatever the chief says they mean. I've never heard of any magazine capacity restrictions being put on an LTC, but I know of some strange ones. One LTC-A was issued with a restriction that read "Only valid between 2 and 3 a.m." (after the chief was upset that a District Court judge overturned his suitability denial), another read "Work purposes only, no home storage, no travel."

Good info otherwise though, you took the dissertation on MGL right out of my mouth.

The only high-cap mags you should own are of the pre-ban kind. (do most people that own a 10/22 have high cap mags? Most likely. They generally go from the safe to the range and that's it.

There are definitely pre-ban 10/22 mags.

If you buy an "approved" Large Cap Gun and you are able to find a pre ban mag then your set. I'd suggest buying a Glock since there always seem to be "pre ban's" available.

There's no restrictions on what kind of large cap handgun one can buy (other than post-ban AR/AK/etc. assualt pistols) as long as you have an LTC-A and any high cap mags are pre-ban; Mass. compliance only applies to dealer sales, not buyers. You can buy an XD, LCP, or Whosajammy 44 in a FTF sale all day long in Mass. In theory you could buy a non-compliant handgun from a dealer and only the dealer could get in legal trouble, but in practice, The Gun Room stopped doing this after they were brought up on criminal charges for it.

 

[DJ_2]

After doing some searching on this site and reading all posts on this topic (there are 2 going on now and several old) it seems that everyone has an opinion of how the law reads (not a dig to anyone, just an observation of how stupid the law was written)

I'd look at it like this. PISTOLS only: If it's pre ban (AWB) you can have a mag that holds more than 10. Regardless of the whole FTF vs FFL sale thing. I suggested Glocks (not because I like them) because of the huge amounts of pre bans avail. I'm sure there are plenty of others with pre's avail.

also someone already answered the "restrictions" applying to your license and I also agree.




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[GSG]

I'd look at it like this. PISTOLS only: If it's pre ban (AWB) you can have a mag that holds more than 10. Regardless of the whole FTF vs FFL sale thing. I suggested Glocks (not because I like them) because of the huge amounts of pre bans avail. I'm sure there are plenty of others with pre's avail.

Pre-ban only applies to rifle configurations and magazines (and AWB pistols, but those are very rare). The date of the pistol is irrelevant as long as the mags are pre-ban; it's perfectly legal to put pre-bans in a brand new Glock or AR, as long as you have the correct license for both gun and mag.

And I'm a Glock guy, so you're preaching to the choir there.

 

[daveyburt]

The answers below are my understanding...

So my questions are, why can I not purchase a pistol with a magazine that has a capacity of more than 10 rounds? I posses a unrestricted Class A, yet I'm subject to this restriction.
You have to have Pre-Ban

What about pre-ban? If someone doesn't have an unrestricted Class A, would they not be allowed to purchase or posses a magazine of 10 rounds or more?
Not allowed / Yes

If my license allows me to carry and posses what MA defines as a large capacity, do mags HAVE to be pre-ban to be 'MA Legal'?
Yes

 

[vellnueve]

Let me make this as clear as possible.

With LTC-A, you may possess large capacity handguns (a definition that is in dispute all the time).

You may also possess large capacity handgun mags provided that: They were manufactured prior to 9/13/1994. Period. End of discussion. Restricted versus unrestricted LTC has nothing to do with it.

 

[Maninblue1861]

Just as a B allows you to purchase and posses large cap rifles shotguns only, and feeding devices for such weapons.

 

[vellnueve]

Just as a B allows you to purchase and posses large cap rifles shotguns only, and feeding devices for such weapons.

And non-large capacity pistols, something that not a lot of people get.

 

[M1911]

Just as a B allows you to purchase and posses large cap rifles shotguns only, and feeding devices for such weapons.

Note, again, that any large capacity magazines for those rifles and shotguns must be pre-ban, manufactured prior to 9/13/94.

 

[Lank]

Note, again, that any large capacity magazines for those rifles and shotguns must be pre-ban, manufactured prior to 9/13/94.

I am dealing with this issue myself- how can you (or a prosecutor) tell if a magazine was made before 1994? My 92F mags have no dates or serial numbers. I called Beretta to learn about the age of the gun itself.

An FFL dealer I met recently said it is impossible to enforce in most cases.

 

[M1911]

I am dealing with this issue myself- how can you (or a prosecutor) tell if a magazine was made before 1994? My 92F mags have no dates or serial numbers. I called Beretta to learn about the age of the gun itself.

An FFL dealer I met recently said it is impossible to enforce in most cases.

It depends upon the gun. For some AR15 magazines, the company that built the magazine went out of business before the ban, and they stamped their company name on the baseplate.

For some guns, there are no pre-ban magazines because the gun was developed after 1994 (e.g., SIG P250).

For some magazines, there are distinguishing characteristics that were added after 1994 (e.g., Glock magazines with the ambidextrous mag release cutout).

For others, it is just anyone's guess, and I'd hate to have to try to defend myself in court.

Was that FFL dealer trying to sell you some magazines? He might be inclined to downplay the potential for trouble.

 

[Lank]

It depends upon the gun. For some AR15 magazines, the company that built the magazine went out of business before the ban, and they stamped their company name on the baseplate.

For some guns, there are no pre-ban magazines because the gun was developed after 1994 (e.g., SIG P250).

For some magazines, there are distinguishing characteristics that were added after 1994 (e.g., Glock magazines with the ambidextrous mag release cutout).

For others, it is just anyone's guess, and I'd hate to have to try to defend myself in court.

Was that FFL dealer trying to sell you some magazines? He might be inclined to downplay the potential for trouble.

No, I asked him his opinion on what to do

My 92F is at home, but the mag's are in NH until this gets cleared up

 

[KMaurer]

Magazines made during the federal ban (i.e., after 9/13/94 but before 9/14/04) were required to be marked with a date or "LEO Only", so either of those markings would be evidence that they are post ban. Otherwise, the only way one could prove that a magazine was post ban would be if (1) it was designed for a gun that didn't exist before the ban (e.g., Springfield XD), (2) the manufacturer didn't exist or otherwise didn't make that particular magazine prior to the ban, or (3) it uses design modifications or parts that weren't used prior to the ban. The last one is a gray area, since a lot of parts can be swapped out a replaced with new parts without making it a "new" magazine.

Ken

 

[GSG]

An FFL dealer I met recently said it is impossible to enforce in most cases.

It is possible to enforce, and more importantly, it's possible to prosecute, which will cost you a lot of time, money and aggravation to defend against. See the recent update to the Manso case on Cape Cod.

 

[M1911]

It is possible to enforce, and more importantly, it's possible to prosecute, which will cost you a lot of time, money and aggravation to defend against. See the recent update to the Manso case on Cape Cod.

Yup.

 

[Lank]

Yup, I am not going to mess with this.

THESE BYZANTINE LAWS NEED TO CHANGE

 

[politenessman]

THESE BYZANTINE LAWS NEED TO CHANGE

What is happening in this regard? Are there any efforts to going on with local gun rights groups to fix this?

And yes, I have searched and I find nothing...

 

[M1911]

What is happening in this regard? Are there any efforts to going on with local gun rights groups to fix this?

And yes, I have searched and I find nothing...

1) Our legislative session has ended. The next session starts in 2011.
2) Here in MA, we don't have the votes on Beacon Hill. The electorate in MA is just a wee bit different than that in GA.
3) I guess you missed http://www.goal.org They've done yeoman like work, given how little they have to work with.

 

[politenessman]

I found GOAL but all their info seemed to be related to training or social events. I saw nothing about legislative efforts.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I found GOAL but all their info seemed to be related to training or social events. I saw nothing about legislative efforts.

I guess you missed the "Legislation" tab?

Start here and read the rest from the pull-down tab.

http://www.goal.org/legislation.html

 

[politenessman]

I saw that. It only tells me where you are now, not what your goals are and how you plan to get there.

 

[M1911]

I found GOAL but all their info seemed to be related to training or social events. I saw nothing about legislative efforts.

Then you didn't look very carefully. There are six major menu items across the top of the GOAL web site. One of them is cryptically labeled "legislation"

 

[politenessman]

See my previous post.

 

[M1911]

See my previous post.

1) A special interest group that publicly posts their strategy is unlikely to be successful.
2) GOAL will submit new bills in January.
3) We still won't have enough pro-gun voters to get those bills passed.
4) The electorate in MA is more than a bit different than the electorate in GA, which is why 3) is true.