Check this out .410 for your AR-15

[kingson]

This looks like a cool upper for your AR-15

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Safir_Arms_T-14_Compact_.410_Guage_Upper_Half.html

 

[oneswithfunes]

That is pretty cool. Expensive as all hell to shoot. I found a guy on youtube that had built a belt fed shotgun upper for a ar.

Here is the link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX7vwivR6cE

 

[kingson]

I saw that one on youtube. It was pretty cool

 

[Pilgrim]

for some reason that strikes me as a good idea.

 

[jorgefreitas]

that wood grat for pheasant hunting

 

[Dench]

i dont think thats legal in MA...

if it turns it into a shotgun then you cant have the pistol grip on it right?
or is a .410 rifle not considered a shotgun?

im sure someone knows for sure.

 

[Ninsho]

Seems like a great idea for trap. Almost as good as a USAS-12.

 

[George D]

I'd like to order a Nagant revolver from them but....

"MASSACHUSETTS CUSTOMERS: No C&R firearms sales."

 

[MattEvan]

doesn't the Taurus Judge fire both a 45 long colt and a .410 cartridge?

 

[Danrk6]

I want!

 

[robitrocks]

doesn't the Taurus Judge fire both a 45 long colt and a .410 cartridge?

Yes. This upper won't accept 45 long colt though.

 

[robitrocks]

i dont think thats legal in MA...

if it turns it into a shotgun then you cant have the pistol grip on it right?
or is a .410 rifle not considered a shotgun?

im sure someone knows for sure.

The 410 is a shotgun.
According to this thread it should be good as long as you have a fixed 5 round magazine.
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=54815

I'm sure someone more familiar with MA laws could confirm.

 

[calsdad]

i dont think thats legal in MA...

if it turns it into a shotgun then you cant have the pistol grip on it right?
or is a .410 rifle not considered a shotgun?

im sure someone knows for sure.

I've got a couple of Benelli M4's with pistol grips, so it's not the pistol grip that would get you. I don't remember what the rule is off the top of my head - but it might be a pistol grip in combination with a removable mag on a shotgun.

I am sure the answer is on NES somewhere.

 

[calsdad]

The 410 is a shotgun.
According to this thread it should be good as long as you have a fixed 5 round magazine.
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=54815

I'm sure someone more familiar with MA laws could confirm.

Good find on the threads. Looks like it's illegal in MA because of the detachable mag and the pistol grip combination.

You could get back to legality and keep the detachable mag if you used one of those freaky CA compliant stocks with no pistol grip - or - I would assume you could be compliant with a pistol grip and the detachable mag if you used a pre-ban lower.

 

[mac1911]

what choke tubes are available? OK this upper s,.' has to stop. another I want that upper!!! OK have to get the 22lr first.

 

[Dench]

I've got a couple of Benelli M4's with pistol grips, so it's not the pistol grip that would get you. I don't remember what the rule is off the top of my head - but it might be a pistol grip in combination with a removable mag on a shotgun.

I am sure the answer is on NES somewhere.

i think its the combo of a semi automatic action with a pistol grip is what makes a shotgun illegal in MA.

a pump doesnt count, as far as i know.

jduboius, where are you!!

 

[kevin9]

According to the assault weapon definition in Chapter 140: Section 121 it's legal as long as it does not hold more than five rounds in a fixed or detachable magazine:

the term assault weapon shall not include: ... (vii) any semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than five rounds of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine

Ergo, as I read it this upper is legit for MA:

Features a 20" smooth bore barrel, 5rd polymer magazine, and semi-automatic Recoil operation.

 

[calsdad]

Here's a page with a little more info and another video:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/01/26/at-14-the-410-ar-15-shotgun/

 

[Cuda444]

With semi-shotguns you're only allowed one of the following:

Folding or collapsible stock
Pistol Grip
More than 5 round capacity
Detachable magazine

So the pistol grip takes care of one, and the box mag takes it one step over into AWB territory, unfortunately.


Of course the solution to this problem is to simply add the Knight's Armament 'Master Key' to your standard AR But that's a whole other realm of legalities... SBS, etc

 

[Dench]

that masterkey isnt mass legal either i think.

i could be wrong, but as far as i know it is legal to own a SBS, but it is not legal to make one. that shotgun attachment on that rifle is a modified version of a full length shotgun, so i dont think its MA legal.

can any of the law experts chime in??

jermey!! where are you!?

 

[Cuda444]

that masterkey isnt mass legal either i think.

i could be wrong, but as far as i know it is legal to own a SBS, but it is not legal to make one. that shotgun attachment on that rifle is a modified version of a full length shotgun, so i dont think its MA legal.

can any of the law experts chime in??

jermey!! where are you!?

You're correct. The shotty would have to have "come from the factory" that way in order for it to be a legal SBS in Mass.

See HERE for the correct terminology.

 

[Dench]

i think the m26 would be legal, if you could find one for sale..

 

[kevin9]

With semi-shotguns you're only allowed one of the following:

Folding or collapsible stock
Pistol Grip
More than 5 round capacity
Detachable magazine

So the pistol grip takes care of one, and the box mag takes it one step over into AWB territory, unfortunately.

I'm not so sure. That was the definition according to the Federal AWB, but as I read it the MA AWB law reads somewhat differently in this one area. It appears to me that shotguns of 5 rounds or less capacity are exempt from the state AWB thus the evil feature count does not apply.

Here's the actual text with the appropriate portions underlined:

Assault weapon”, shall have the same meaning as a semiautomatic assault weapon as defined in the federal Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(30) as appearing in such section on September 13, 1994, and shall include, but not be limited to, any of the weapons, or copies or duplicates of the weapons, of any caliber, known as: (i) Avtomat Kalashnikov (AK) (all models); (ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil; (iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70); (iv) Colt AR-15; (v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR and FNC; (vi) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9 and M-12; (vi) Steyr AUG; (vii) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22; and (viii) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as, or similar to, the Street Sweeper and Striker 12; provided, however, that the term assault weapon shall not include: (i) any of the weapons, or replicas or duplicates of such weapons, specified in appendix A to 18 U.S.C. section 922 as appearing in such appendix on September 13, 1994, as such weapons were manufactured on October 1, 1993; (ii) any weapon that is operated by manual bolt, pump, lever or slide action; (iii) any weapon that has been rendered permanently inoperable or otherwise rendered permanently unable to be designated a semiautomatic assault weapon; (iv) any weapon that was manufactured prior to the year 1899; (v) any weapon that is an antique or relic, theatrical prop or other weapon that is not capable of firing a projectile and which is not intended for use as a functional weapon and cannot be readily modified through a combination of available parts into an operable assault weapon; (vi) any semiautomatic rifle that cannot accept a detachable magazine that holds more than five rounds of ammunition; or (vii) any semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than five rounds of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine.

If I'm wrong, please point out what I missed, with citations.

 

[jdubois]

that masterkey isnt mass legal either i think.

I'd agree. It fits the definition of a "weapon made from a shotgun, whether by alteration, modification or otherwise, if such weapon as modified has one or more barrels less than 18 inches in length or as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches." and so is classified as a "sawed-off shotgun" and is illegal to possess.

If I'm wrong, please point out what I missed, with citations.

No, you're not wrong exactly. However, except for very weird situations, any shotgun that has a detachable magazine will be argued to be able to hold more than five shells in such a magazine. So that bit of § 121 you found is basically meaningless.

Though the same nonsense has been clarified in the definition of a "large capacity weapon" so you might be able to argue the standards for that (large capacity magazine has to actually be present) also apply to this definition. But it's not something I'd personally fool with, as it's by no means a "slam dunk" defense.

 

[Dench]

what do you think about the m26, j?

 

[kevin9]

No, you're not wrong exactly. However, except for very weird situations, any shotgun that has a detachable magazine will be argued to be able to hold more than five shells in such a magazine. So that bit of § 121 you found is basically meaningless.

Though the same nonsense has been clarified in the definition of a "large capacity weapon" so you might be able to argue the standards for that (large capacity magazine has to actually be present) also apply to this definition. But it's not something I'd personally fool with, as it's by no means a "slam dunk" defense.

OK, I see the point. Personally this appears to be a gray area, particularly if there are no "hi-cap" mags available for said shotgun; however, IANAL, YMMV, suo motu

 

[jdubois]

OK, I see the point. Personally this appears to be a gray area, particularly if there are no "hi-cap" mags available for said shotgun; however, IANAL, YMMV, suo motu

Yes, it's very gray. I agree if there are no large capacity magazines available for the shotgun you've got a slightly better defense.

 

[Taipan01]

This site is nothing but lawyers, I swear. Threads always seem to debate legalities. Back to the upper. No thanks, a .410 smooth bore seems a bit anemic for anything but up close pest control. Why put a general area upper on an AR platform? You'll need to aim it, not point it. Even in 20 or 12 ga. I'd still pass. For an extra hundred I could get a Rem 870 12 ga. super mag combo which would cover all my shotgun needs. There is the unusual aspects of it, maybe for conversation, but that's about it.

 

[MassMark]

Why not? Someone posted a crossbow upper on here a while back - not my cup of tea, but I think a .410 upper could be fun... Think of the blank stares when you show up to the skeet range....