Carry licensing decision out of RI Supreme Court

[invaliduser]

Fair point.

Say what about a list of options much like the MA shenanigans here? http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...uide-to-gun-rights-in-your-Massachusetts-town

 

[Kevin_NH]

Chilling effect? Absolutely.

I had good reason to apply for a RI permit a few years ago, decided against it because I didn't want to have to explain the denial on every future application I made in just about any other state, including my home state of New Hampshire.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

If you have a connection to a town in RI, I would suggest you apply there. Other than that I can't give any recommendations since it wouldn't be "fair" if everyone applied to a town where they are actually are following the law instead of where they have chosen to ignore the law.

It would be fairest to apply in East Providence, as that city has been obstructionist, and needs to catch up on a decade of non-issuance.

 

[newportri]

It would be fairest to apply in East Providence, as that city has been obstructionist, and needs to catch up on a decade of non-issuance.

They do have a new Chief though and I have heard people are saying nice things about him with regards to the application process and he has also issued permits.
The former Chief (Tavares) who is named in the lawsuit, was booted after receiving a no-confidence vote from his own police department!
I think that makes him un-suitable to carry a firearm

 

[The Anchor]

just spoke with the licensing capt in North Smithfield about applying, and his town won't accept Non Residents applications. Capt Lafferty was a pleasure to talk to and seemed very interested in how this may change things in RI. He acknowledges the AG's restrictive process meant to deter most from even applying. He is reaching out to his contacts with the state to get their take on the case, and asked me to call him back next week ( if he forgets to call me first), for further discussion. He made a valid point that it should be done through the state so that the towns don't get the burden, but was not optimistic that anything will ever change with the AG's office.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

just spoke with the licensing capt in North Smithfield about applying, and his town won't accept Non Residents applications.

This approach would not seem to be supported by the recent RI supreme court decision.

 

[newportri]

just spoke with the licensing capt in North Smithfield about applying, and his town won't accept Non Residents applications. Capt Lafferty was a pleasure to talk to and seemed very interested in how this may change things in RI. He acknowledges the AG's restrictive process meant to deter most from even applying. He is reaching out to his contacts with the state to get their take on the case, and asked me to call him back next week ( if he forgets to call me first), for further discussion. He made a valid point that it should be done through the state so that the towns don't get the burden, but was not optimistic that anything will ever change with the AG's office.

If you get a chance to talk to him again, ask him under what authority he is ignoring Rhode Island law as well as the opinion of the highest court in Rhode Island on this issue.
There is no need to ask him for permission to apply. Request an application (do it through the Access to Public Records Act if they give you a hard time) and just submit it. I'd like to see it in writing that they deny you because you are not a resident..

 

[Rob Boudrie]

If you get a chance to talk to him again, ask him under what authority he is ignoring Rhode Island law as well as the opinion of the highest court in Rhode Island on this issue.
There is no need to ask him for permission to apply. Request an application (do it through the Access to Public Records Act if they give you a hard time) and just submit it. I'd like to see it in writing that they deny you because you are not a resident..

This is a worthwhile endeavor only if you have retained counsel and are prepared to file for a writ of mandamus with the RI supreme court.

 

[MachineHead]

IIRC I read on one of the RI 2A forums that the Town of Burrillville follows the law wrt to non-resident applicants.


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[Tomfromhull]

Why is carrying large sums of money on the list for reasons to carry? My aunt was robbed of her pocketbook in Quincy and she probably only had a few bucks and a pack of smokes in it. Don't we all stand the chance of becoming victims regardless of how much money we carry? Criminals are notoriously stupid and we often read about them killing people for just a few bucks. They don't know who's carrying large sums of money. They just rob at their first opportunity.

 

[Kevin_NH]

Why is carrying large sums of money on the list for reasons to carry? My aunt was robbed of her pocketbook in Quincy and she probably only had a few bucks and a pack of smokes in it. Don't we all stand the chance of becoming victims regardless of how much money we carry? Criminals are notoriously stupid and we often read about them killing people for just a few bucks. They don't know who's carrying large sums of money. They just rob at their first opportunity.

Some people are "known to carry large sums of cash", and thus are targeted. For example, back when I used to regularly buy and sell used cars, I rarely had less than $1K on my person.

And if you transport really large sums, Rhode Island lets you carry a machine gun. How's that for unfair to the little guy?

Licenses and permits to banks and carriers. – The attorney general may issue a license or permit to any banking institution doing busin ess in this state or to any public carrier who is in the business of transporting mail, money, securities, or other valuables, to possess and use machine guns under such regulations as the attorney general may prescribe.

 

[newportri]

This is a worthwhile endeavor only if you have retained counsel and are prepared to file for a writ of mandamus with the RI supreme court.

I disagree. I know many people who have been told by the local licensing authorities that they don't have applications, but when they request it under APRA they all of a sudden have an application. When LEO are made aware that the person they are talking to actually knows the law and what their rights are they are much more likely to follow the law and I think the same will apply to non-residents applying locally for a permit. It is unbelievable the lies that are told by many RI LEO with regard to the pistol permitting process in RI to discourage anyone from even applying.
In their own instructions (#6) of the application they even state that non-residents must submit their home permit.
http://www.rifol.org/attachments/File/y2015/PistolPermitApplications/North_Smithfield.pdf

 

[Len-2A Training]

I disagree. I know many people who have been told by the local licensing authorities that they don't have applications, but when they request it under APRA they all of a sudden have an application. When LEO are made aware that the person they are talking to actually knows the law and what their rights are they are much more likely to follow the law and I think the same will apply to non-residents applying locally for a permit. It is unbelievable the lies that are told by many RI LEO with regard to the pistol permitting process in RI to discourage anyone from even applying.
In their own instructions (#6) of the application they even state that non-residents must submit their home permit.
http://www.rifol.org/attachments/File/y2015/PistolPermitApplications/North_Smithfield.pdf

Question: Is there a state-wide application form (like in MA) or does each city/town get to create their own (legally) in RI?

 

[n1bsbri]

Question: Is there a state-wide application form (like in MA) or does each city/town get to create their own (legally) in RI?

Each city/town creates their own application package. Most of them are copied verbatim from the AG's packet, usually just changing the department name. Many (most?) have that "proper showing of need" language in them, which was just struck down by this court decision as being an improper standard for the town to use under 11-47-11. It is the proper standard for the AG permit under 11-47-18.

The AG application packet:

WEAPONS CARRY PERMIT PACKET

 

[The Anchor]

Page 4 of NSmithfield app has the town clerk verify that you either live or have a place of business in town. Same statement the licensing officer made.

 

[RImike]

Question: Is there a state-wide application form (like in MA) or does each city/town get to create their own (legally) in RI?

There is no consistency, most towns create their own, or model it after the AG application (sometimes, word for word).

 

[dhuze]

I disagree. I know many people who have been told by the local licensing authorities that they don't have applications, but when they request it under APRA they all of a sudden have an application. When LEO are made aware that the person they are talking to actually knows the law and what their rights are they are much more likely to follow the law and I think the same will apply to non-residents applying locally for a permit. It is unbelievable the lies that are told by many RI LEO with regard to the pistol permitting process in RI to discourage anyone from even applying.
In their own instructions (#6) of the application they even state that non-residents must submit their home permit.
http://www.rifol.org/attachments/File/y2015/PistolPermitApplications/North_Smithfield.pdf

So how do you go about requesting an application through APRA? My town never has any applications and I've even sent letters directly to the chief. I was sending them with a SASE and certified, but I lost my receipts. They keep telling me to download the AG app because it's the same one. I know how that will turn out. They will forward it to the AG. I'm not playing that game with them.

 

[newportri]

Page 4 of NSmithfield app has the town clerk verify that you either live or have a place of business in town. Same statement the licensing officer made.

Yes, I also noticed that, but that shouldn't stop you from applying since the instructions clearly states that you need to submit your home permit if you are a non resident. Just write "Not applicable" in that section of the application. It's easy for an officer to state in person that they don't process non-resident applications (contrary to law), but I don't think they will put that in writing since that would make them look stupid and they know that. They will do anything to deter you from applying (including telling lies).
Most towns have their own APRA form that you can fill out. Simply state that you request the towns pistol permit application and they have two weeks to respond. Send a fax or certified to make sure you have a record of it. If they don't respond, file a complaint with the Attorney General and that will get their attention. If you send your own request, make sure you state you are seeking the application under APRA. What town are you in Dhuze?

There is no standard application, but hopefully next week there will be legislation introduced that will standardize the application form and putting the form in 11-47-11 similar to the State form in 11-47-35 when you purchase a firearm. It's a very good bill and there is actually a decent chance it will pass since it has a lot of support among the legislators... I'll keep you guys posted once it is official.

 

[spcantwell]

Sinse this is an active thread I will ask here instead of dredgeing up an old one, My wife and I would like to get a license in RI. We both have class A's in mass and she has a connection to a police cheif who said he wouldnt mind takeing our apps. All we need to do is to do the safety classes and range time, anyone on here available or know someone who is (we are out of taunton).

Only issue is that she is currently pregnant so doing live fire is frowned uppon, do simulations count? What is the min number of rounds needed to be fired? Or should she just wait until after she has the kid (and then prob a few months after that to get the free time)?

 

[RImike]

Sinse this is an active thread I will ask here instead of dredgeing up an old one, My wife and I would like to get a license in RI. We both have class A's in mass and she has a connection to a police cheif who said he wouldnt mind takeing our apps. All we need to do is to do the safety classes and range time, anyone on here available or know someone who is (we are out of taunton).

Only issue is that she is currently pregnant so doing live fire is frowned uppon, do simulations count? What is the min number of rounds needed to be fired? Or should she just wait until after she has the kid (and then prob a few months after that to get the free time)?

There is no safety class, only live fire:

§ 11-47-15 Proof of ability required for license or permit. – No person shall be issued a license or permit to carry a pistol or revolver concealed upon his or her person until he or she has presented certification as prescribed in § 11-47-16 that he or she has qualified with a pistol or revolver of a caliber equal to or larger than the one he or she intends to carry, that qualification to consist of firing a score of one hundred ninety-five (195) or better out of a possible score of three hundred (300) with thirty (30) consecutive rounds at a distance of twenty-five (25) yards on the army "L" target, firing "slow" fire. The "slow" fire course shall allow ten (10) minutes for the firing of each of three (3) ten (10) shot strings.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

There is no safety class, only live fire

Available in Hopkinton, no charge, for Comm2a donors.

 

[newportri]

You don't need a safety course in RI, but you need to qualify per RIGL 11-47-15 with a handgun. How many months pregnant is she? She should NOT do the qualifications on an indoor range since most of them have poor (dangerous) air quality. She might be OK doing it outside, but that depends on what trimester she is in. I believe a fetus start developing their hearing in the second trimester and firing a handgun can damage their hearing. In either case, you should consult with her doctor about this since you don't want to do anything to risk the health of your baby. If only silencers were legal you would have one less problem to worry about.
Simulations would not count since the law states you have to fire with at least the caliber you intend to carry and I assume she is not going to carry a simulation gun for self defense

 

[MachineHead]

Available in Hopkinton, no charge, for Comm2a donors.

Nice! I'm a monthly donor and didn't know this. I spend a good amount of time in RI since we visit the lady's family very often and would like the best possible chance at a local permit. Faxing out the APRA form for West Warwick in the morning.


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[BehindEnemyLines]

Joined to post this. First, thanks to the OP for alerting the community to this decision.

I was one of the people who was wrongfully denied a permit by a chief based on "suitability". With the new judgement I've already contacted him and will be resubmitting my application. Will keep everyone posted!

 

[newportri]

Joined to post this. First, thanks to the OP for alerting the community to this decision.

I was one of the people who was wrongfully denied a permit by a chief based on "suitability". With the new judgement I've already contacted him and will be resubmitting my application. Will keep everyone posted!

What town are you in?

 

[HansGruber]

Does this new law apply to out of state applicants who will have to apply through the AG's office?

I already have a work restricted pistol permit in RI but would like to have my restrictions lifted.


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[Rob Boudrie]

Nice! I'm a monthly donor and didn't know this.

Comm2a donors who want a RI qualification in Hopkinton need to contact me. I keep a supply of Army L targets on file at the club for this purpose.

 

[scubadive.ri]

One thing is clear from that decision, Chief Tavares is a jerk.

He isn't the chief anymore, he actually issued my permit. I guess I was lucky!

 

[scubadive.ri]

For years you could have applied in any city/town in RI if you had a permit from another state (doesn't necessarily need to be your home state) so this is not new.

I think all of you should apply for a permit in RI if you have a permit from another state and meet all the other requirements in RIGL 11-47-11. For a "reason", just state you are a gun collector and that you want to carry a gun for personal protection. This is the best time in recent Rhode Island history to apply, and I hope as many RI and non-RI residents apply. We have seen in the past that people are afraid of even applying since they are afraid they will be denied and they don't want that on their "record". Being denied a CCW permit in itself is not a disqualifier to obtain a CCW somewhere else as long as the reason for being denied is not disqualifying (ie being a felon). If people don't apply, we will probably be back to where we have been pretty soon :-(

PS, it is FREE to apply for a permit in Rhode Island and it only cost $40 for the actual permit.

If anyone is having a hard time getting an application from a local licensing authority, please post on this forum, or on http://www.rifol.org/forum.

The AG fee is 40.00. The individual towns set their own fees, EP cost me 100.00

 

[Rob Boudrie]

The AG fee is 40.00. The individual towns set their own fees, EP cost me 100.00

The higher fee is not provided for by law, and would be a good target for another case.