Carry licensing decision out of RI Supreme Court

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No one pays attention to RI generally [smile], but this was interesting. My take is that they are severely limiting, but not preventing outright, suitability denials on carry licenses. But this appears to be a strong indication that town policies banning carry are not going to be allowed.
https://www.courts.ri.gov/Courts/SupremeCourt/Opinions/14-72.pdf

What's really good about this case, is that they referenced the Mosby decisions which ascertained that as long as you met 11-47-11, you were suited for a permit. The Mosby case further went on to clarify that being a firearm collector was considered a reason.

This decision also permits for residents of other states, (including MA) to request a town issued permit under 11-47-11. Up until now, you would have to jump through the AG hoops.

Up until now, there were no deadlines for issuing permits, now there is 90 days.

This is a huge win for those living with police chiefs that create arbitrary rules, such as Lincoln, Warwick and Newport.
 

M1911

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Rob Boudrie

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It is interesting to note that the court invited the applicant to re-appeal, with no filing fee, if the PD refuses his application after the ordered re-decision.
 

M1911

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Are those limits also going to affect AG suitability denials?

Looking at the text, I believe the answer to this is "no." So for us non-residents, we will still get dinged by the AG or have to find a town that will accept a non-resident application.
 
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Are those limits also going to affect AG suitability denials?

It doesn't seem so considering that this case dealt with RI 11-47-11 and the AG issues under 11-47-18.

- - - Updated - - -

Looking at the text, I believe the answer to this is "no." So for us non-residents, we will still get dinged by the AG or have to find a town that will accept a non-resident application.

According to the decision, it is now any town in RI.
 

Rob Boudrie

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Looking at the text, I believe the answer to this is "no." So for us non-residents, we will still get dinged by the AG or have to find a town that will accept a non-resident application.
The decision states that the applicant must be a resident of the RI, or a resident of the US with a carry permit issued by any state. It would appear to allow outsiders to apply with any town, and does not give towns an "out" of refusing an application. This is going to get interesting once hundreds of NESers apply to East Providence, and appeal to the court if denied.
 
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Rob Boudrie

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Looking at the text, I believe the answer to this is "no." So for us non-residents, we will still get dinged by the AG or have to find a town that will accept a non-resident application.
The decision states that the applicant must be a resident of the RI, or a resident of the US with a carry permit issued by any state. It would appear to allow outsiders to apply with any town, and does not give towns an "out" of refusing an application. This is going to get interesting once hundreds of NESers apply to East Providence, and appeal to the RI supreme court if denied, using the petition for this case as a template.
 
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The plaintiff can and probably will still be denied. The chief will just have to provide better documentation as to why.

Also:
The response indicated that, to Tavares’s knowledge, no license to carry aconcealed weapon had been issued within the last decade and that, in order to receive a license,all requirements of the application must be met.
 

terraformer

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What's really good about this case, is that they referenced the Mosby decisions which ascertained that as long as you met 11-47-11, you were suited for a permit. The Mosby case further went on to clarify that being a firearm collector was considered a reason.

re: the bolded section: I believe that Mosby was intended to do that, but it's not clearly worded as such and there is wiggle room for a future court to judgify a different ruling, something I think the court in this decision was laying the ground work for by stating the purpose of the licensing system was to "prevent criminals and certain other persons".

ie; This language comes to mind. “§ 11-47-11 vests the local licensing authority with discretion to reject [the] application * * *.” when combined with "Further, while issuance of a license under § 11-47-11 is mandatory if an applicant has satisfied the statutory criteria, whether an applicant has satisfied such criteria “involves an exercise of discretion” on the part of local officials."

Call me jaded and skeptical...
 
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re: the bolded section: I believe that Mosby was intended to do that, but it's not clearly worded as such and there is wiggle room for a future court to judgify a different ruling, something I think the court in this decision was laying the ground work for by stating the purpose of the licensing system was to "prevent criminals and certain other persons".

ie; This language comes to mind. “§ 11-47-11 vests the local licensing authority with discretion to reject [the] application * * *.” when combined with "Further, while issuance of a license under § 11-47-11 is mandatory if an applicant has satisfied the statutory criteria, whether an applicant has satisfied such criteria “involves an exercise of discretion” on the part of local officials."

Call me jaded and skeptical...

How can there be discretion if the reliant court cases have stated it was a mandatory issuance of a permit? I see the grey area your alluding to, I suppose only time will tell.

- - - Updated - - -

The decision states that the applicant must be a resident of the RI, or a resident of the US with a carry permit issued by any state. It would appear to allow outsiders to apply with any town, and does not give towns an "out" of refusing an application. This is going to get interesting once hundreds of NESers apply to East Providence, and appeal to the RI supreme court if denied, using the petition for this case as a template.

That would make things interesting. [popcorn]
 

VetteGirlMA

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Just so that I will know, I was hoping that I can get some clarity on something. I have absolutely zero criminal record, zilch, nada. Keeping that in mind, from what I have read on here, that even with a squeaky clean background I could potentially facing an outright denial for no good reason at all? I know that a denial from anywhere is a bad thing, especially in this part of the country, but what would trigger a denial even without having any criminal background at all?
 

Rob Boudrie

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but what would trigger a denial even without having any criminal background at all?
Lack of a specific reason to fear for you life which goes beyond the general fear of crime to which all people are subject.

This is the basis of denials in many may-issue jurisdictions, and a key issue in the RI case which suggests that town/city issued permits in RI may not use this as the basis for denial. If that is upheld, it will be a game changer in RI.
 

dhuze

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................., but what would trigger a denial even without having any criminal background at all?

Part of RI's reason for denial asks for a specific reason of need for a permit and can the applicant change their way to avoid needing one. So basically if you say you need one because an ex has been threatening you, could YOU move.
 

VetteGirlMA

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So based on what you're saying there is no point in trying to get a permit in RI? If I said I like to visit RI beaches and cities but felt unsafe, based on that line of reasoning my option would be stay out of RI?
 
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So based on what you're saying there is no point in trying to get a permit in RI? If I said I like to visit RI beaches and cities but felt unsafe, based on that line of reasoning my option would be stay out of RI?

dhuze made a broad assumption. Say you like to visit the Middletown beaches, apply in Middletown. I live in Middletown and applied citing a need for self defense and I collect firearms, which according to the Mosby decision, was proper reason, I got the permit shortly after.
 
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For years you could have applied in any city/town in RI if you had a permit from another state (doesn't necessarily need to be your home state) so this is not new.

I think all of you should apply for a permit in RI if you have a permit from another state and meet all the other requirements in RIGL 11-47-11. For a "reason", just state you are a gun collector and that you want to carry a gun for personal protection. This is the best time in recent Rhode Island history to apply, and I hope as many RI and non-RI residents apply. We have seen in the past that people are afraid of even applying since they are afraid they will be denied and they don't want that on their "record". Being denied a CCW permit in itself is not a disqualifier to obtain a CCW somewhere else as long as the reason for being denied is not disqualifying (ie being a felon). If people don't apply, we will probably be back to where we have been pretty soon :-(

PS, it is FREE to apply for a permit in Rhode Island and it only cost $40 for the actual permit.

If anyone is having a hard time getting an application from a local licensing authority, please post on this forum, or on http://www.rifol.org/forum.
 
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If you have a connection to a town in RI, I would suggest you apply there. Other than that I can't give any recommendations since it wouldn't be "fair" if everyone applied to a town where they are actually are following the law instead of where they have chosen to ignore the law.
 
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If you have a connection to a town in RI, I would suggest you apply there. Other than that I can't give any recommendations since it wouldn't be "fair" if everyone applied to a town where they are actually are following the law instead of where they have chosen to ignore the law.

images


Wouldn't you want us to have a favorable place to apply regardless of their following or not of their law?
 
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Wouldn't you want us to have a favorable place to apply regardless of their following or not of their law?

What newport is getting at, is that if everyone applies in one town that is following the current law (before the decision) they are going to get jammed up and aggravated.

As earlier indicated in the thread by Rob, apply in EP.
 
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