Mostly one eye. On close shots or when the lighting is real good I use both eyes. Personally I see a quicker, clearer sight picture while squinting a bit. I've done drills comparing the two and one eye was faster. Slow fire- I can use either or both eyes without any issue. When I shoot with both eyes open it's almost like my eyes always want target focus and it takes "work" to focus on the front sight. I may experiment more this summer.. not sure. I don't feel like it's help me back either way.
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Can you shoot accurately with both eyes open?
- Thread starter Rockrivr1
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I close one eye with handguns & rifles - except my AR w/ Aimpoint ( 1x ).
Now , you guys have me realizing I want to shoot with both eyes open all the time - at least with my handguns.
Even if the two methods are exactly the same , both eyes open seems like a better idea. I usually walk around with both eyes open , why not try shooting that way ?
Now , you guys have me realizing I want to shoot with both eyes open all the time - at least with my handguns.
Even if the two methods are exactly the same , both eyes open seems like a better idea. I usually walk around with both eyes open , why not try shooting that way ?
dcmdon
NES Member
I did, and Eric Grauffel confirms my point. He said he shoots to 15 yards, which covers the vast majority of practical targets, with both eyes open.
He said he closes one eye much beyond that.
Perfect. I stand by my point. If you can't shoot with both eyes open, as mr Grauffel can, you will never achieve your full potential.
Re real world shooting, there is no argument. try walking around one day with one eye covered.
Maybe I didn't say it this way before, and I apologize, I tend to get worked up on this topic, but you NEED to be able to shoot with both eyes open. That doesn't mean you need to shoot that way all the time. But it needs to be part of your skill set.
Don
dcmdon
NES Member
The other thing is that modern IPSC shooting has gotten so far away from actual PRACTICAL shooting that its not that fundamentally different from shooting NRA bullseye as far as situational awareness.
You know the stage. You walk the stage. You take your sight pictures, you count your rounds and then you shoot it.
I've run several IDPA stages where the shooter was not allowed to even see the stage until he was running it. Typically it began with opening a door and stepping into a "shoot house" type scenario. In some cases it was run with reduced light and required you to use a flashlight. Thats very practical.
You know the stage. You walk the stage. You take your sight pictures, you count your rounds and then you shoot it.
I've run several IDPA stages where the shooter was not allowed to even see the stage until he was running it. Typically it began with opening a door and stepping into a "shoot house" type scenario. In some cases it was run with reduced light and required you to use a flashlight. Thats very practical.
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Respectfully...So what? Its a game I like to play with my friends.
Training and practice -- that's all folks. I think what helped me the most was going through Bill Rogers school. http://www.rogersshootingschool.com/ -- You just can't keep up with multiple targets at random exposure times if you don't have both eyes open.
dcmdon
NES Member
I don't have a problem with that. For the game of IPSC, you can probably do just fine with one eye closed, but it will limit how far you can progress.
For the game of IDPA, you can probably do fine also, although it will hurt you a little on some stages.
For real life, you need to be able to shoot with both eyes open.
I shot skeet before I got started shooting any pistol stuff other than bullseye. You NEED both eyes open in trap. One guy who shot consistently well told me to just accept the bad scores and keep using both eyes. He said my scores would improve in the short term if I closed an eye, but that I'd limit myself if I never learned to shot both eyes open.
He was certainly right. On crossing shots shooting with an eye closed gives you that much less time to react.
Its the same thing when you are bird hunting.
If you have a hard time shooting with both eyes open, there ARE things that you can do to ease yourself into it. As others have said, a piece of tape in just the right place on your shooting glasses works well. You should also do the standard drill to confirm that you are using your dominant eye.
I've found that several shooters I've know who were sure they could not shoot with both eyes open were just holding the gun in front of the wrong eye.
Don
The games we play (whether IDPA or USPSA) are just that- games. And the people that think they provide "practical" skills for defensive scenarios are mislead. If you want REAL tactical training go get it... you won't get it from these sports.
For REAL defensive shooting most of the better shooters I know would hit their target with both eyes open no problem using target focus... matter of fact they would probably index the target quicker than most with their eyes closed.
For REAL defensive shooting most of the better shooters I know would hit their target with both eyes open no problem using target focus... matter of fact they would probably index the target quicker than most with their eyes closed.
dcmdon
NES Member
They provide REAL reinforcement for real training that you have already received. If you want to play the game that way.
Its easy to play that way in IDPA and you won't put yourself at much of a disadvantage. The only "gamey" IDPA thing I can think of is the use of cover.
IDPA requires you to be 50% covered. Thats not enough.
IPSC will put you at more of a disadvantage if you try to use truly good tactics.
No magnetic holsters or mag pouches
no hosing from the middle of the door
no loading your mag to just the right number of rounds
no dumping loaded mags on the ground
no driving around corners with the gun leading the way.
So while these games won't TEACH you tactics. They are a great way to reinforce those you have learned elsewhere. If you choose to play the game that way.
If not, then thats fine too.
Don
p.s. In the early days of IDPA I made it to Sharpshooter shooting my Glock 26 out of a thumbbreak desantis holster. I gave up some time but it was worth it to me to build proficiency with my carry gun and holster.
p.p.s. In the early days of IDPA there was a definite anti-gam mentality. Stages were designed to not penalize you for using truly correct tactics. Guys who finagled angles and tried to sneak a sight picture were called "Gamers". IDPA even had a penalty for this, the dreaded "failure to do right". Its gotten more gamey since then, but you are still as likely to hear guys talking about how a stage applies to real world between stages as anything else at an IDPA event.
Its easy to play that way in IDPA and you won't put yourself at much of a disadvantage. The only "gamey" IDPA thing I can think of is the use of cover.
IDPA requires you to be 50% covered. Thats not enough.
IPSC will put you at more of a disadvantage if you try to use truly good tactics.
No magnetic holsters or mag pouches
no hosing from the middle of the door
no loading your mag to just the right number of rounds
no dumping loaded mags on the ground
no driving around corners with the gun leading the way.
So while these games won't TEACH you tactics. They are a great way to reinforce those you have learned elsewhere. If you choose to play the game that way.
If not, then thats fine too.
Don
p.s. In the early days of IDPA I made it to Sharpshooter shooting my Glock 26 out of a thumbbreak desantis holster. I gave up some time but it was worth it to me to build proficiency with my carry gun and holster.
p.p.s. In the early days of IDPA there was a definite anti-gam mentality. Stages were designed to not penalize you for using truly correct tactics. Guys who finagled angles and tried to sneak a sight picture were called "Gamers". IDPA even had a penalty for this, the dreaded "failure to do right". Its gotten more gamey since then, but you are still as likely to hear guys talking about how a stage applies to real world between stages as anything else at an IDPA event.
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W
wolf223
yes
i don't exactly recall, but playing with differnt pistols, i noticed it was more natural with "dot" sights vs. factory Glock sightes...
![[cheers]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/018.gif "Cheers [cheers]")
Sure if you want- you can practice/shoot the way you want with either sport. But the premise of the "game" is based on speed... which is not the case in a "real" defensive situation for the most part. You won't win matches or come in first for being tactical however. Hey I love both sports a ton, but I see them for what they are and they certainly help you become a better shooter if you work at it. But when I see a stage where you are advancing towards 9 armed thugs (or even ghouls sometimes) in a grocery store, I do get a little embarrassed reading the stage description. On the other hand if the game involved most scenarios with one or two bad guys (real life encounters) only at every stage I wouldn't enjoy it much at all.
Back OT... shooting with either or both eyes isn't "dangerous" in either sport in this case... or most for that matter.
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Respectfully Don.. trying to interept your post correctly... would it be better for a below average shooter such as myself,who is trying to improve at both games,to shoot IPSC with one closed, and IDPA with both eyes open?
I am very intrigued that he focuses on the target. I have not heard that AT ALL prior to now. Is this more common than I knew?
Did you use a target focus or front site focus?
I think it is more common than people let on. more so in a fast shooting sport like USPSA where you use a flash sight picture
If IDPA was real life based, then those who didn't show up would win and the guy that brought the rifle would get 2nd place
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<------ Shoots with both eyes open![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
I got jokes.....hahaha
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Due to my cross dominance, I actually find shooting with both eyes open to be the most natural way to shoot.
I watch something with good and bad guys (Matrix, or some other shootem up movie), I 'shoot' bad guys and use good guys as a fire/no fire drill from the holster. I get strange looks from the wife, but she's already given up on me in this regard.
If you don't have any, buy a set of 'snap caps'. It might be urban legend, but people who trained me swore they protected the gun from excessive dry firing.
I have never heard of target focus, truthfully. Not as it relates to what you should be focusing on. Please explain what you mean, I might be missing what you're throwing down. The only way that I have ever been taught to shoot, non-glass guns, is to focus on the tip of the front sight post. Sure, in the beggining I aquire the target by looking at it, but once that's done -- my focus is on the tip of the FSP.
dcmdon
NES Member
Its better to just shoot with both eyes open and not develop what many consider to be bad habits. Like I said earlier, the first step is to find out what eye is your dominant eye. If you are having a lot of trouble with both eyes open, maybe you are not holding the gun in front of you dominant eye.
dcmdon
NES Member
re front sight focus or target focus.
I'm all ears on this one. I remember some of the best runs I've ever done and on those runs I couldnt' tell you what I was concentrating on. I wasn't consciously focusing on the front sight.
I think along the lines of what Eric Graffeul said about 1 or 2 eyes. At close distance, you may find you focus on the target and instinctively point the gun, almost like a shotgun, but on longer shots you are forced to really line up the sights (and maybe even squint one eye) .
I'm all ears on this one. I remember some of the best runs I've ever done and on those runs I couldnt' tell you what I was concentrating on. I wasn't consciously focusing on the front sight.
I think along the lines of what Eric Graffeul said about 1 or 2 eyes. At close distance, you may find you focus on the target and instinctively point the gun, almost like a shotgun, but on longer shots you are forced to really line up the sights (and maybe even squint one eye) .
On the rare occasion that I shoot a handgun....both eyes open, RH grip in front of my left eye.
Shotgun, both eyes open.
Rifle, depends on the shot. Most of the time I try and do the point-shooting/instinctive aim 2 eyes open, other times if I'm concentrating on a specific shot (or using a scope), I'll do one eye open.
Shotgun, both eyes open.
Rifle, depends on the shot. Most of the time I try and do the point-shooting/instinctive aim 2 eyes open, other times if I'm concentrating on a specific shot (or using a scope), I'll do one eye open.
dcmdon
NES Member
I assume you hold your shotgun and rifle to your left shoulder?
Thats how I teach it anyway. for ex, right handed, left eye dominant
handgun - hold gun in right hand, line up with left eye, both eyes open
shotgun - hold gun to left shoulder, sight with left eye down the bbl, both eyes open.
Rifle, this is more of a tossup. For what sounds like the short range shooting you mentioned, I'd think holding to the left shoulder would work best, since it would facilitate instinctive point shooting.
long range work with one eye closed, Its kindof a tossup. To you want a steeper learning curve, then shoot right handed. Do you want to be able to possibly shoot with youer weak eye open all the time? Then go Left handed.
I'm a thoroughly mediocre shooter, but I am VERY left eye dominant. I find I can shoot a scoped rifle with both eyes open and it doesn't bother me.
Re the topic of figuring out what eye is your dominant one. The old method of focusing on an item then pointing at it with your finger and seeing which eye it lines up with works best when the subject does NOT know what you are doing. That way they can't let their preconceived notions guide them.
I hope this helps some bit.
Don
Thats how I teach it anyway. for ex, right handed, left eye dominant
handgun - hold gun in right hand, line up with left eye, both eyes open
shotgun - hold gun to left shoulder, sight with left eye down the bbl, both eyes open.
Rifle, this is more of a tossup. For what sounds like the short range shooting you mentioned, I'd think holding to the left shoulder would work best, since it would facilitate instinctive point shooting.
long range work with one eye closed, Its kindof a tossup. To you want a steeper learning curve, then shoot right handed. Do you want to be able to possibly shoot with youer weak eye open all the time? Then go Left handed.
I'm a thoroughly mediocre shooter, but I am VERY left eye dominant. I find I can shoot a scoped rifle with both eyes open and it doesn't bother me.
Re the topic of figuring out what eye is your dominant one. The old method of focusing on an item then pointing at it with your finger and seeing which eye it lines up with works best when the subject does NOT know what you are doing. That way they can't let their preconceived notions guide them.
I hope this helps some bit.
Don
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So I'm not sure what else you want to hear about target focus- seems like you got it. On target focus you are literally focused on the target with the sights out of focus... this is very doable since when the target is close you don't need a perfect sight picture. Matter of fact, you can actually use target focus for targets that are reasonably far away (not precision or tough shots though) when you are using target focus- of course that doesn't mean you can't see your sights and that they aren't aligned... they just aren't what you are focused on.
When I am shooting a target on the move I will notice that my focus will change from my front sights to the target as I get closer... it just happens.
I shoot right handed on long arms as well. Shooting lefty, from a body mechanics POV, just doesnt work. It's alot easier for me to deal with not having my dominant eye looking down the gun than it is for me to attempt to work the gun with my weak hand.
