Can you folks recommend ?

[Twigg]

I want a milsurp “Something” and need some advice & yes I did a search. I almost bought a Russian Mosin from the folks at Stoney Acre Sports at the Marlboro show.

What put me off was the condition of the bore. There was a ribbon of pitting which spiraled up the bore. I had never seen anything like that before. I bought a bolt action Tula .22 from them instead.

The Mosin had a really nice stock for an old war rifle. Some of the other Mosin’s I saw at the show had been refinished terribly.

Generally speaking are these rifles typically safe to shoot without being taken apart and examined by a gunsmith ? What about cracks in the chamber?

Are a lot of them just sold “as is” and then it’s up to the buyer to check for any issues ?

Do certain milsurp rifles have better reputations ? What's a good choice for someone who want to actually shoot a piece of history ?

Some of these might be "dumb noob" questions but I would appreciate some advice.

 

[firtree]

Good lord, RUN away from anything with cracks in the chamber!

IMHO it all depends on what you want to do with it? Do you want
blast away at the range (SKS), hunt (Enfield, Springfield, Nagant)
or shoot CMP (Springfield, Garand). Also, what would you like to pay
for the rifle and how expensive can your ammo be? I hate to be the
one that says "it depends..." but it depends...

F

 

[Twigg]

Good lord, RUN away from anything with cracks in the chamber!

IMHO it all depends on what you want to do with it? Do you want
blast away at the range (SKS), hunt (Enfield, Springfield, Nagant)
or shoot CMP (Springfield, Garand). Also, what would you like to pay
for the rifle and how expensive can your ammo be? I hate to be the
one that says "it depends..." but it depends...

F

Fair enough ! Yes I would run from cracks in the chamber ! And I know what a reall, really pitted bore looks like.

Mostly just some large caliber plinking at the range. Hopefully with something not too exotic. I'd love a Garand but for the same money I'd most likely buy a new AR. Say oh, a couple hundred, two to three if I can get a shooter , maybe up to five or six. Much more than that and I'd just save for the Garand or AR.

The Mosin I almost bought was less than $200.00.

 

[JonJ]

You can't beat the re-arsenaled Mosin Naggants m44, M38 & 91/30's that are out there. They should all be good to shoot out of the box. These rifles were all rebuilt and put away for wars that never came. Same with the German K98's & Yugo Mausers. Ammo is cheap for both the MN and Mauser. You already know what to look for.
If you have your C&R even better. You can order one real cheap.

 

[SKS Ray]

One of the biggest problems with Mosin Nagant rifles is the "sticky bolt syndrome". This is when you go to open the bolt after firing a shot and have to whack the bolt upward with the palm of your hand to get it to open. Its a Mosin problem thats been atributed to many things... certain ammo types, left over gunk stuck in the chamber where the bolt lug will get stuck, even poor machining due to the quick rush to get rifles out to soldiers. All possibilities and sometimes you get a Mosin that does it no matter what fix you try, and sometimes you get one that functions smooth.
Mauser type rifles are easy to operate and usually have a smoother action. You can get un-issued M48s and other types for around $200. Enfield's are a good investment, especially the Savage No4s. Accuracy with these rifles is top notch and there some really goood ones out there now. 303 British isn't as easy to find and cheap as Mosin and Mauser ammo, but you can still buy comercial stuff at most gun shops.
If I had to recomend any rifle to a new buyer, i'd say get a Savage Enfield No.4. They won't be around much longer and you'll pay a bit more than what you would for a refurbed K98 or Mosin, but you will get a great shooting and smooth action rifle.

forgot to mention, check www.surplusrifle.com for info and tips including take down and clean up on just about any rifle out there for sale today in the mislurps world.

 

[jhrosier]

These are all good guns, easy to get and relatively inexpensive
1. Yugo Mauser , 8mm
2. Swiss K31, 7.5x55mm
3. Yugo SKS, 7.62x39mm
Pay a little extra and get the best condition available, you'll never regret it.

 

[firtree]

I regret having sold my Enfield #4mk1*. It had great sights and
was a blast to shoot, but ammo got pricey. Now that wolf and some
of the others make .303, that may be better. Also, the mausers in
7x57 and 7.62 are known to be damn accurate. The 7x57 ammo kicks less
and is a bit harder to find cheap. The 7.62 (spanish civil guard) is a great
deal (FS had one for cheap a few months ago) and would be pretty cheap
to feed. Just don't use .308 in it!

F

 

[Twigg]

OK that's a start.

I'm going to have to do some research as well as some legwork.

Thanks.

 

[Nickle]

Mosin Nagants with pitted bores is nothing new.

I have 3 Mosins, M24 Finnish, M28 Finnish and a Russian 91/30. Both Finn's have pitted bores. The M28 I haven't fired yet, but the M24 has been fired. It still shoots well, even though the barrel looks like the inside of a sewer pipe. Pitting doesn't seem to affect a Mosin much. The condition of the rifling is far more important.

Now for the reality check. The only Mosin's worth much over $100 are ex-Sniper's, Finn's and M91's made in the US. The rest aren't bad guns, they just simply don't cost much. Finn's can be worth about $200. I paid $25 and $65 for each of mine, in private deals. The 91/30 was in near new condition, and a C&R out in Montana sold it to me for $60.

I see a LOT of Mosin's at Gun Shows that are marked between 150% and 300% of what the Dealer paid for them. Want to beat that? Get your C&R License. Your FIRST Mosin will recoup the cost of the License. Yup, they go for about $50 to $80 from the Distributors.

 

[Pilgrim]

I'd love a Garand but for the same money I'd most likely buy a new AR.

AR's are being made very day by the thousands. Garands aren't.

Get a Garand while you can still afford one.

 

[Twigg]

Ok, now I'll have to look into getting my C&R too, might as well it's inevitable. Then I’ll need a monster safe, and another job to pay for everything...

 

[Nickle]

If you have a source for quality AR's at $400 or $500 each, let me know.

Those prices, because if you're paying more than $500 for an M1 Garand, either it's a Winchester, M1C/M1D or you're being ripped off. CMP sells them for $400 and $500. Shipping is about $23. It's that simple.

And, it's not common for folks to be shocked at these prices. I constantly see M1's at gun shows for EXORBITANT prices.

DO NOT BUY AN M1 AT A GUN SHOW! They are grossly OVERPRICED.

You don't need a C&R to get them from CMP, either. If you don't find the info after a quick search, PM me. I'll give you the details. I'll do it GLADLY!

 

[Twigg]

What I meant was...

I'd love a Garand but for the same money I'd most likely buy a new AR. Say oh, a couple hundred, two to three if I can get a shooter , maybe up to five or six. Much more than that and I'd just save for the Garand or AR.

No, no ! I did not mean to imply I could get a Garand or an AR for $5-600.00 !

I was looking at this CMP page http://www.odcmp.com/Services/Rifles/m1garand.htm

I know AR's start around a thousand bucks new, and I thought a Garand in good shape would cost about the same or a bit more. This is uncharted terrority for me.

 

[Nickle]

I am saying you CAN get a Garand easily for $400 to $500.

Those CMP guns are a mixed bag. Some are nice, some not so nice. All of them work.

Are you coming up Memorial Day Weekend?

 

[Len-2A Training]

Here's a few random C&R FFL prices for milsurps taken from latest SGN (various dealers):

Yugo SKS 59/66 - exc $150, good $100
MN 91/30 - $100, refurb VG-exc $70
M38 - $100
M44 rebuilt in wrapper - $80

 

[Nickle]

And Len is quoting some stuff as the upper end prices, believe it or not!

 

[Len-2A Training]

Yes, I just took the latest SGN and scratched some numbers down as I started flipping thru it starting on page 1. I admit that looking at those prices, they seem somewhat high. But it will give some idea to those that only know the retail shop prices.

 

[Nickle]

I realize that Len. Some folks here just don't understand how much some shops mark stuff up. I DON'T do that and WON'T do that. It's bad for business, in the long term.

 

[Coyote33]

Can't they ultrasound or xray or whatever it is called to look for microscopic cracks?

 

[JonJ]

Magnuflux? Probably cost a hell of lot more than the price of a neat little 91/30 at 70 bux!

 

[Twigg]

Ok

Sounds good. Nickle, I'll be sending you a PM soon. Thanks for all the help guys !

 

[Coyote33]

Magnuflux? Probably cost a hell of lot more than the price of a neat little 91/30 at 70 bux!

I guess if you plan to shoot it a lot it might be worth your life though. Don't know what that service costs.

 

[Nickle]

I guess if you plan to shoot it a lot it might be worth your life though. Don't know what that service costs.

I used to have a set-up for doing "Magnaflux". There's actually a chemical method, and it costs about $25 when I bought mine.

That's no BS, and I didn't miss a digit on that.

 

[cdkayak]

If you're willing to go to $500 - $600 than keep the Garand in mind. As stated earlier the CMP Service grade is a good shooter. It will be hit or miss on the looks but they are nice rifles with some history behind them.

If you go Field Grade then you've got money left for a case of ammo.

The requirements are pretty easy to fulfill as well.

Whatever you get, enjoy.
CD