CA Assembly OKs micro-stamp on some guns

[LoginName]

I wonder if the sales of Dremels and files in CA will increase as a result of this?

SACRAMENTO
Assembly OKs micro-stamp on some guns
Bill would make state first in nation to require tracking device in semiautomatic pistols

(05-30) 04:00 PDT Sacramento -- In an effort to curb deadly gun violence, the state Assembly on Tuesday passed a bill that would make California the first in the nation to require a mechanism inside semiautomatic pistols to stamp information that would help authorities track down criminals.

"About 45 percent of all homicides are never solved ... for lack of evidence," the bill's author, Assemblyman Mike Feuer, D-Los Angeles, said on the floor of the Assembly. "But we have the technology now to prevent killers from killing again and to bring them to justice."

The measure, AB1471, would require starting in 2010 that all semiautomatic pistols sold in California contain a mechanism to stamp the gun's make, model and serial number on the shell casing of the bullet every time the weapon is fired.

Citing state Department of Justice records, Feuer noted that about 2,400 homicides are committed each year and about 60 percent involve the use of a handgun. Moreover, about 70 percent of new handguns sold in California are semiautomatic pistols, he said.

While supporters of the legislation hailed the bill as a desperately needed tool for law enforcement to solve shooting crimes, opponents argued the technology is unproven and there are too many loopholes in the measure to be effective.

Perhaps the biggest problem would be that innocent people could be framed for crimes that they did not commit, said Assemblyman Doug LaMalfa, D-Richvale (Butte County).

"Other ammunition rounds can be thrown around at the scene of the crime ... or criminals can use revolvers that do not eject shell casings," he said.

The idea of "micro-stamping" is catching on at the federal level. Rep. Xavier Becerra, D-Los Angeles, and Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Massachusetts, said earlier this month that they, too, will craft a micro-stamping bill in Congress.

"There's always that concern that others will follow California. Like they say, the way California goes, the rest of the nation goes," said Marc Halcon, president of the California Association of Firearms Retailers.

In California, a previous effort to pass a micro-stamping bill failed.

Last year, then-Assemblyman Paul Koretz, D-West Hollywood, introduced a similar bill that passed several hurdles but came up two votes shy in the Assembly on the last day of the legislative session.

On Tuesday, the Assembly approved Feuer's version in a 44-29 vote, largely along party lines. The bill now heads to the state Senate.

Feuer said the primary difference in this year's bill is that the measure requires the micro-stamping mechanism to etch the information from at least two different places in the pistol. Last year's bill only required one and the firing pin was widely considered as the most logical piece of the firearm to stamp the information. Opponents argued then, and now, that the firing pin can be removed and defaced, or simply replaced.

That's why his bill requires the etching to occur in more than one place inside the gun, Feuer said.

Several Republican members of the Assembly voiced their opposition by arguing that there is little evidence that additional laws on gun control actually lead to less crimes, or that approving the measure would only enrich a single patent-holder of the technology.

Feuer dismissed the latter argument by saying that the patent owner, NanoMark Technologies of Londonderry, N.H., has agreed to give away the patents to gun manufacturers if the bill is enacted.

"This is not a gun control bill. It's a crime control bill," said Assemblyman Paul Krekorian, D-Burbank. "We know that there is an epidemic of gun crimes in the state."

Pro-gun organizations said they are troubled by AB1471 and argued the measure will only hurt law-abiding gun owners because the measure would drive up the prices of firearms.

"Micro-stamping is an ill-advised proposition," said Andrew Arulanandam, a spokesman for the National Rifle Association of America.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/05/30/BAG7QQ3PBB1.DTL

 

[SnakeEye]

In an effort to curb deadly gun violence, the state Assembly on Tuesday passed a bill that would make California the first in the nation to require a mechanism inside semiautomatic pistols to stamp information that would help authorities track down criminals.

this must be one of the dumbest statement ive ever read..

 

[FPrice]

Just suppose for a moment, that micro-stamping was able to be done.

That would identify the gun, not the shooter.

If Gang-Banger A steals a gun from Joe Law-abiding Citizen and uses it to kill Gang-Banger B, who would be implicated as the shooter?

If I can find holes in this proposition, anyone can.

 

[drgrant]

IMO if this ever passes the industry needs to deliver a big "f*** you" with
middle finger extended to CA... and it should refuse to tool up or produce
guns for the market. The only way to solve this is to get enough people
pissed off in CA so congress-cretins start getting burned at the stake.

I thought at one point this proposal had already failed because the industry
said it was not feasible for them to do what they wanted.... guess that
doesn't stop them.

-Mike

 

[dwarven1]

And pray tell, just what good will this do for all the crimes committed with a revolver or a pre-2010 semi-auto?

Frickin' morons. This is just a gun-banning bill thinly disguised as a crime-control measure.

 

[Admin]

And pray tell, just what good will this do for all the crimes committed with a revolver or a pre-2010 semi-auto?

Frickin' morons. This is just a gun-banning bill thinly disguised as a crime-control measure.

You're assuming any gun mfgr will continue to sell to CA if this bill passes....

 

[Adam_MA]

Lex Luther's plan of dropping CA into the Pacific is sounding better by the day!

 

[dwarven1]

You're assuming any gun mfgr will continue to sell to CA if this bill passes....

In which case my objection still stands - this will do nothing except ban guns.

 

[Admin]

In which case my objection still stands - this will do nothing except ban guns.

As much as it will suck for the CA residents, if the gun mfgrs decide not to sell because of this possible law, crime will only continue to go up and maybe, just maybe they will then see that it would have had zero effect on crime...

What the hell am I thinking? No moonbat has ever let facts get in the way...

 

[Pilgrim]

if we get this, I'll go to the range, pick up some micro stamped casings off the ground, and throw them around at the next shooting I'm involved in.

Not really, but it shows just how useless a law like this is.

 

[Chris]

Ummm... lets see what 30 seconds with a file or some emory paper can do.

Morons like these should not be allowed to breed let alone draft policy. Obviously no actual experts in the field were ever consulted.

 

[pipmaster1971]

Perhaps the biggest problem would be that innocent people could be framed for crimes that they did not commit, said Assemblyman Doug LaMalfa, D-Richvale (Butte County).

"Other ammunition rounds can be thrown around at the scene of the crime ... or criminals can use revolvers that do not eject shell casings," he said.

Whoooa!!! A congress-critter that used his common-sense?

 

[Len-2A Training]

CA is too big a market for mfrs to ignore, regardless of their ridiculous requirements. So, until they ban all guns outright, the mfrs will BOHICA!

e.g. Handgun testing requirements between MA and CA are almost identical. CA requires an ANNUAL FEE (IIRC, it might be every 2-3 years) to keep the gun on their "LIST" after certification, or it can no longer be sold there. [In contrast, MA only requires a one-time certification and no fee to the state.]

Check CA's LIST of approved handguns. Damn near everything is on it. Now check MA EOPS List and you'll see damn near nothing on it in comparison.

MA has so few legal gun owners that the mfrs write-off the state, yet they can not afford to do the same thing in CA! The above is proof positive of that.

 

[M1911]

Ummm... lets see what 30 seconds with a file or some emory paper can do.

I believe they are looking to microstamp the serial number onto the firing pin. It takes me maybe 30 seconds to swap out a M1911 firing pin...

If this sort of thing passes, it might be fun to do a cable-TV access channel demonstration.

 

[JonJ]

Feuer dismissed the latter argument by saying that the patent owner, NanoMark Technologies of Londonderry, N.H., has agreed to give away the patents to gun manufacturers if the bill is enacted.

Thanks, a**h***s.
Read their propaganda

 

[Reptile]

Ummm... lets see what 30 seconds with a file or some emory paper can do.

Morons like these should not be allowed to breed let alone draft policy. Obviously no actual experts in the field were ever consulted.

+1 end of story...

 

[MaverickNH]

Thanks, a**h***s.
Read their propaganda

Housed in the industrial beltway around Manchester Airport. Next time you drive up for a flight, drop a bag of empty brass in their parking lot.

Wonder if they will make a "live Free or Die" engraved firing pin for me??

 

[Adam_MA]

I just tried to contact the company via the email address listed on their website (only contact info listed)

I got this back...

Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently:

[email protected]

Technical details of permanent failure:
PERM_FAILURE: SMTP Error (state 13): 550 5.1.1 Bad destination mailbox address ([email protected]).

Looks like a real top-notch company they have there!

 

[C-pher]

Just suppose for a moment, that micro-stamping was able to be done.

That would identify the gun, not the shooter.

If Gang-Banger A steals a gun from Joe Law-abiding Citizen and uses it to kill Gang-Banger B, who would be implicated as the shooter?

If I can find holes in this proposition, anyone can.

Or, don't you think like it was said about dremmels, that all criminals will file it out anyway.

And I would like to see them address reloader.. Unless it is put on the primer cap...

 

[adweisbe]

They mention marks on the breech face and not just the firing pin. Those might not be as easy to remove without damaging the pistol.

 

[SnakeEye]

when the tractibility of conventional firearms becomes too pervasive people with ill desires will simply resort to simple zip guns and other types of homeade firearms to do their deeds. theres more than one way to discharge a cartridge.

youd be amzed what can be done with compressed helium and a high quality fast acting valve. a little machining time and some welding and you can make a weapon quieter and just as, if not more deadly than any commercially available firearm..

its the desire to kill that you cant microstamp away..

 

[dwarven1]

Or you could just purchase a black powder revolver. Or hell... ANY revolver. The stamping won't be done on them.

and they think that the crooks won't figure that out? Yeesh.

 

[Mooney]

I found a nifty little book in a bookstore one time- Improvised Warfare Devices and Techniques, from the US Army.

Shows some cool plans for zip guns and even a shotgun that is built from a pipe, two bolts, a nail, and a rubber band.....among things that may make a bigger bang....

As anyone with common sense could tell, this law won't solve much, just cost us more....having to change tooling (if applicable)for microstamping on every gun? I don't know about the mfg. process, but it can't be that cheap.

 

[second]

You're assuming any gun mfgr will continue to sell to CA if this bill passes....

I hope they dont, starting with all commiefornia police agencies.

 

[WVBob]

Pilgrim. if we get this, I'll go to the range, pick up some micro stamped casings off the ground, and throw them around at the next shooting I'm involved in.

Not really, but it shows just how useless a law like this is.
__________________

Go to a police range and get the brass to toss around.

How many times is this stamp going to work. Will it read as clean after 5000 rounds as 5.

They are nuts.

 

[M1911]

They mention marks on the breech face and not just the firing pin. Those might not be as easy to remove without damaging the pistol.

I've polished the breech face before. Oil, 600 grit sandpaper, a tongue depressor, and some patience will bring a very nice shine to the breech face.

 

[M1911]

The stamping won't be done on them.

If it passes, I bet revolvers will be stamped as well. It won't do any good, but when has that stopped the bleeding liberal idiots.

 

[Weerd Beard]

when the tractibility of conventional firearms becomes too pervasive people with ill desires will simply resort to simple zip guns and other types of homeade firearms to do their deeds. theres more than one way to discharge a cartridge.

youd be amzed what can be done with compressed helium and a high quality fast acting valve. a little machining time and some welding and you can make a weapon quieter and just as, if not more deadly than any commercially available firearm..

its the desire to kill that you cant microstamp away..

Not to mention that 'Ol Jonny Goblin has spent his life fighting in the streets, while I've spent my life reading books and taking tests.

Unless I have a gun, I don't stand a chance against that monster.

 

[Amicus]

A little-discussed effect of the federal “AW” ban was the change in preferred calibers among pistol purchasers. Why, they said, should I pay premiums for high (i.e., normal) capacity firearms when I can get something in a larger caliber that does not require crippled magazines? The ban was a great boon to the manufacturers of .45 ACP pistols.

Who will predict that, if this bill passes, we start seeing a whole lotta Redhawks and 649s and 625s and 686+s and GP100s and SP101s and so on being sold in California? We will have a new law encouraging the purchase and use of more powerful handguns. And who will predict that the number of one-shot fatalities will increase as well?

The law of unanticipated consequences is alive and well and, as usual, being ignored.

Oh, but wait, then the new law will be amended to provide criminal penalties for “tampering” with the micro-stamping. Will this have an effect on the definition of a “firearm”? Will a firearm, under CA law, be defined as the frame and the parts containing the micro-stamping?

Pull up a chair. It’s going to be a long and strange legislative session.

 

[matt]

Thanks, a**h***s.
Read their propaganda

Disturbing that they use a SIG firing pin in the background... are they already complicit in this?

If Gang-Banger A steals a gun from Joe Law-abiding Citizen and uses it to kill Gang-Banger B, who would be implicated as the shooter?

If I can find holes in this proposition, anyone can.

I suspect they don't find this to be a problem. This way the gangbager that got shot can sue SOMEONE to pay for his medical bills...