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Brandishing scenario...your in your truck...

Sterg

Sterg

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All I can find about carrying a loaded handgun inside a vehicle is it has to be in control. Does that mean I can have a holster in my cup holder or under dash?
Scenario: Your driving minding your own buisiness and you are at a stop light. The guy in front of you got real personal because you cut him off earlier down the road. He gets out of his car to run his mouth at you and he’s standing in front of your door.
1:You wave your handgun at him to move along and when he sees it he obediently goes back to his car. He had a tire iron in his hand to make you unholster.
2: Your handgun is holstered and sitting within reach on your console and he sees it and obediently goes to his car.
He calls the cops and says you pulled a gun on him. What do you do? Anyone have any real time experience with this?
 
Couple things. Was your vehicle blocked so you couldn't drive away? If not blocked in.....drive away.

If your blocked in......and the dude is standing there yelling at you with a tire iron.....what's wrong with yelling at him "I am armed with a gun" and see if he backs down. If he doesn't back down after warning him.....yeah I'd draw.

If he busts the window out before you can say anything.......draw.

Escellation of force is important to me.....but that said......I'm ready to use it quickly if things go south fast. A cool head prevails.

One scenario......I got blocked in by an angry driver in a parking lot about 5 months ago. I didn't hit his vehicle....it was an accident but I did pull out in front of him.....my fault....however......Dude got out and started screaming at me to get out of my truck. He was red faced and had clenches fists. My first move......cell phone......turned on the video and pointed it at him. I yelled it's all on tape are you sure you want to to do this......he dropped more f bombs.....and got in his truck and drive away. I was carrying too.....and figured the The video Camera on my cell phone was a great defensive tool to use against this a**h***.

Now.....I gave myself an after action review.......when I pulled out in front of him......I knew he was pissed cuz I could see him pounding the steering wheel. I parked my truck in a space between two cars and he stopped parallel behind me blocking me in. I never should have allowed myself to get blocked in....and I never will again if this happens.....I should have just kept driving.

My take on situations like this......needing to pull your fire arm is a last resort. It's up to me to keep it from getting to that point.
 
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All good points but what if he sees it sitting on the edge of your seat? I sometimes take the snub out and tuck it on the side of my seat for more comfort when I drive.
 
Whacko has a great description of what should happen. If at all possible drive away and if person follows call 911. The idea of recording on phone great idea and probably will make someone think twice. Agree about conceal carry, if gun is uncomfortable get a different holster. I agree that if under threat where other has gun pointed at you and you can't retreat, then protect yourself, deescalate situation is better option. I still operate under rule of never pointing a gun at something you don't intend to destroy, if it gets to that point there is going to be lots of paperwork and lawyers involved.
 
Read the law again. In a MV it is "direct control", legally undefined but usually other than your person fails that definition in a courtroom.

There was a nurse in W. Mass who put her gun on her dashboard (IIRC) when a trucker started to play chicken with her. She was convicted and the bottom line was that she ended up committing suicide.
 
If you're worried about other drivers making things up, get a dash cam. There's also the theory that this is the one case where being chicken little (calling 911 at the first sign of a problem) works to your advantage.

Len-2A Training said:
Read the law again. In a MV it is "direct control", legally undefined but usually other than your person fails that definition in a courtroom.
Click to expand...
There's what is legal (varies by state), and what is wise.

Since 2012, New Hampshire's RSA 631:4 specifically permits action that'd be "brandishing" in Massachusetts many other states. Doesn't mean it's a smart move to "wave somebody away".
 
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Kevin_NH said:
If you're worried about other drivers making things up, get a dash cam. There's also the theory that this is the one case where being chicken little and calling 911 at the first sign of a problem works to your advantage.


There's what is legal (varies by state), and what is wise.

Since 2012, New Hampshire's RSA 631:4 specifically permits action that'd be "brandishing" in Massachusetts. Doesn't mean it's a smart move to "wave somebody away".
Click to expand...
MA does not have a "brandishing" law. They call it assault with a deadly weapon here.
 
Len-2A Training said:
Read the law again. In a MV it is "direct control", legally undefined but usually other than your person fails that definition in a courtroom.

There was a nurse in W. Mass who put her gun on her dashboard (IIRC) when a trucker started to play chicken with her. She was convicted and the bottom line was that she ended up committing suicide.
Click to expand...

OMG that is so sad! Explicit example of how the laws in the PRM are so screwed up. This would have been a non-issue in just about any 'red' state.

Assuming OP is in Mass because of the Blackstone Valley location. NEVER brandish in this state, nor should you 'stow' a firearm anywhere in your vehicle that could be construed as brandishing during a conflict. Neither of your scenarios makes sense here in the PRM. Holstered in your car but not on your person? Violates direct control rule and will get you tripped up in court. If you are not able to escape and you are in immediate danger of deadly force- draw and shoot until the threat is neutralized.

Also there are too many shitty, whiney people here. They will cause the trouble and think they want to kick your ass, yet are perfectly happy to call cops if you get the drop on them.
 
Direct control is having it in your vehicle while you are in it. If you get out to pump gas or perform any other task it is no longer under your direct control unless obviously holstered or tucked in your waistband.

What if it was a woman (or a tranny) who carries in her purse? Purse is on the passenger side seat next to her. Pretty friggin hard to conceal wearing a dress unless you dress like Killery.

I was taught if you have to pull it you better be in fear of your life and ready to use it so closed fists don't cut it but a tire iron or other weapon does. Do not get out and confront attacker but get out of area ASAP if you can. Call LE ASAP and yes, if you are not filming it you can bet some douche is so make sure you're 110% sure.
 
Kevin_NH said:
If you're worried about other drivers making things up, get a dash cam. There's also the theory that this is the one case where being chicken little (calling 911 at the first sign of a problem) works to your advantage.
Click to expand...
The way our family lawyer put it was, “When in doubt, he who wins the race to the Police wins.”
 
If you're in a Liberal sh*thole state? (ESPECIALLY) in Massachusetts?.. You VERY politely swallow your pride, toughness and (Irish) RAGE (which I absolutely undoubtedly possess) and you say "Yknow, sorry dude. It's been one of those days and...".. And then you PRAY that he doesn't notice a g-g-g-GUN!!!! anywhere on you or near you (or not even near you, for that matter.
Cuz in MassaScrewchetts, if you have a g-g-g-GUN!!!! you're obviously, clearly, undoubtedly in the wrong, you're a lunatic, and you need to have that damned awful thing removed from your possession.. as well as your license to carry it, which you shouldn't even be "allowed" to have, anyways, since guns are bad unless cops have them, and the 2nd Amendment was about the MILITIA and NOT YOU, you disgraceful, disgusting, deplorable person you!
"OFFICER!! ARREST THIS LUNATIC PLEEEZE!! PROTECT THE CHILDREN!!!!!!!"

/sarc
 
FIRST this would be to start your camera and video the whole incident. I would think if you fear for your life, a record of the events will lend to your state of mind at the time.
 
there was a guy arrested a couple years ago. Some sort of road rage stuff. Guy smashes his window with a tire iron, and breaks the driver's nose by punching him in the face. His face was a mess. He returned fire and killed the guy. DA was prosecuting him for murder! Figure that one out.....

So just because some guy is on the other side of a locked door ranting away, do NOT assume you can use that as a self defense argument!
 
In this state?

I’d need to be taking fire myself before I felt 100% legally justified in shooting back. And since you don’t draw unless you intend to shoot, well...

Drive away. Every time. It’s not worth the hassle.
 
Len-2A Training said:
Read the law again. In a MV it is "direct control", legally undefined but usually other than your person fails that definition in a courtroom.

There was a nurse in W. Mass who put her gun on her dashboard (IIRC) when a trucker started to play chicken with her. She was convicted and the bottom line was that she ended up committing suicide.
Click to expand...

That was the clarification I was looking for.
 
These days you have to look at driving sort of like a video game. If people looked at the vehicle as an object to maneuver around instead of the person inside there would be a lot less a**h***s on the road.
 
Asaltweapon said:
Direct control is having it in your vehicle while you are in it. If you get out to pump gas or perform any other task it is no longer under your direct control unless obviously holstered or tucked in your waistband.

What if it was a woman (or a tranny) who carries in her purse? Purse is on the passenger side seat next to her. Pretty friggin hard to conceal wearing a dress unless you dress like Killery.

I was taught if you have to pull it you better be in fear of your life and ready to use it so closed fists don't cut it but a tire iron or other weapon does. Do not get out and confront attacker but get out of area ASAP if you can. Call LE ASAP and yes, if you are not filming it you can bet some douche is so make sure you're 110% sure.
Click to expand...

In Ma. most likely but there is a thing called disparity of force. If the guy is 6'4 275lbs of muscle and young and you're 5'9 200lbs mostly consisting of fat and in your senior years or if you're a 90lb. female clinched fists and the person yelling I'm gonna beat the effin life out of you as he's smashing against your vehicle trying to break the window would probably justify lethal force. As others have said recording it would be great and only pulling your gun and using it only if absolutely necessary.
 
Sterg said:
I sometimes take the snub out and tuck it on the side of my seat for more comfort when I drive.
Click to expand...
Like others have said, guns belong in holsters:
Just prior to ramming the Monte Carlo, Manauzzi had pulled out his service revolver and placed it on the seat in anticipation of a shootout, but the force of the collision flung open his door and sent his weapon flying. Hanlon lost his .357 Magnum service revolver during the initial collision...
Click to expand...
 
The first thing I always do is apologize when I inadvertently commit vehicular douchery. It happens. Lane drifts, blind spots, judgement errors. I am guilty of all of them at one point in time. I have even gone so far when a vehicle was in my blind spot and I started into his lane, as to wait for him to come along side and roll my window down, mouth "sorry" very clearly. Most guys are a bit surprised around here when a big, jarhead guy immediately takes the non confrontational approach.

Regardless of stupid Mass laws, I never unholster in my vehicle. There are a lot of good reasons for this, but the main reason I don't is that I don't want to be separated from my firearm in the event of an accident. Roll your vehicle a couple of times and that center console is gonna fly open and two days later you wake up in the hospital hoping rescue personnel noticed it and not the tow company that inventoried the contents when it got to their yard. " Our records do not show a Colt 1911 among the items in your vehicle when it's contents were catalogued"

In today'sworld, I assume that I am always on camera. If you draw, it will likely get caught on camera. And you will be in deep shit in Mass. But it should also be noted that different town and departments will react differently. (which sucks) In some towns, if you put your hand on the firearm, but don't draw, that will be enough to fry your ass. In others, you may not even be charged. If possible, try to be a clean cut, white male, free of neck tattoos for best results.
Personally, if I had the time when confronted with an irate and aggressive person, who was armed, I would say something like " I don't want to shoot you" or "please don't make me shoot you"
Pretty much the only reason I am going to draw is if I think someone is going to die. Pepper spray is a great idea but the main reason I have it is because I would really hate to hurt someone's dog if it was chewing on someone.
 
My take is: If you have to ask the question, you already know the answer.

Years ago, the (nearly) elderly father of a friend was crossing the street, with the walk light. Car does a "Right-on-red-without-looking" and nearly hits him. His hand was in his pocket, and he hurled, along with epithets, a closed Swiss Army knife at the car. He was charged with assault with a dangerous weapon. YMMV
 
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