Boston LTC range test requirement question

JackO

JackO

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As most of you know, as part of licensing process, Boston requires applicants to take a range test (Moon Island). Moreover, people who have their LTCs issued by any cities (towns) other than Boston, upon moving to Boston, are required to take the same range test at their renewals.

The only other town that I know of that has this ridiculous and not required by MGL range test as part of application process is Brookline, MA. As a certified firearms instructor, I had many students in Brookline, and I found out that Brookline allows any certified firearms instructor give a range test to the applicant, and the results (target) and a letter from the instructor will suffice to fulfill the requirement of a range test. This way students can avoid going to the police range on Moon Island, and arrange the test at their convenience with a friendly local firearms instructor.

Does anybody know or have any experience if Boston PD allows the similar practice?
 
JackO said:
As most of you know, as part of licensing process, Boston requires applicants to take a range test (Moon Island). Moreover, people who have their LTCs issued by any cities (towns) other than Boston, upon moving to Boston, are required to take the same range test at their renewals.

The only other town that I know of that has this ridiculous and not required by MGL range test as part of application process is Brookline, MA. As a certified firearms instructor, I had many students in Brookline, and I found out that Brookline allows any certified firearms instructor give a range test to the applicant, and the results (target) and a letter from the instructor will suffice to fulfill the requirement of a range test. This way students can avoid going to the police range on Moon Island, and arrange the test at their convenience with a friendly local firearms instructor.

Does anybody know or have any experience if Boston PD allows the similar practice?
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No, Boston requires that the test only be administered by Boston PD at Moon Island.
 
I just turned in my application for my ltc last week and the lo said that he was surprised that everyone didn't have to take some form of the moon island test.
 
lemme get this straight. Before I could get an LTC in Boston, I'd have to pay to take a "range test" at some firing range, using the police's .38? What if I only ever wanted to hunt with a shotgun (and don't say I should just apply for an FID!)? Would they let the applicant take the "range test" with a shotgun? I've never shot a .38, and cannot for the life of me guess whether I'd pass this test. Do they give you practice time before the 'test?' I took a basic homeowner gun safety class. We 'handled' revolvers, semi-automatics, rifles, and shotguns in the class, but there was no live fire requirement as part of the state-mandated curriculum, so I'm confused how a city or town can impose some regulation above and beyond the State's requirement.

Would the Keller or McDonald rulings have any effects on these old judgments? Perhaps time to re-file the appeal?? If Chicago can't impose restrictions, how can Boston??
 
StevieP said:
lemme get this straight. Before I could get an LTC in Boston, I'd have to pay to take a "range test" at some firing range, using the police's .38?
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Yup.

What if I only ever wanted to hunt with a shotgun (and don't say I should just apply for an FID!)?
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Too bad. Get an FID or take the test.

Would they let the applicant take the "range test" with a shotgun?
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No.

I've never shot a .38, and cannot for the life of me guess whether I'd pass this test.
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It isn't that hard, but you do want to practice. I can help you practice for it if this is a real question, rather than a rhetorical one.

Do they give you practice time before the 'test?'
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No. You can dry fire, but no live practice.

I took a basic homeowner gun safety class. We 'handled' revolvers, semi-automatics, rifles, and shotguns in the class, but there was no live fire requirement as part of the state-mandated curriculum, so I'm confused how a city or town can impose some regulation above and beyond the State's requirement.
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The law gives police chiefs near total discretion in issuing LTCs. They can issue them, or not. They can add extra hoops, or not.

Would the Keller or McDonald rulings have any effects on these old judgments? Perhaps time to re-file the appeal??
Click to expand...
Eventually, maybe, but not any time soon.

If Chicago can't impose restrictions, how can Boston??
Click to expand...
Chicago didn't have restrictions. Chicago had an outright ban. Boston doesn't have an outright ban.
 
StevieP said:
lemme get this straight. Before I could get an LTC in Boston, I'd have to pay to take a "range test" at some firing range, using the police's .38? What if I only ever wanted to hunt with a shotgun (and don't say I should just apply for an FID!)? Would they let the applicant take the "range test" with a shotgun? I've never shot a .38, and cannot for the life of me guess whether I'd pass this test. Do they give you practice time before the 'test?' I took a basic homeowner gun safety class. We 'handled' revolvers, semi-automatics, rifles, and shotguns in the class, but there was no live fire requirement as part of the state-mandated curriculum, so I'm confused how a city or town can impose some regulation above and beyond the State's requirement.

Would the Keller or McDonald rulings have any effects on these old judgments? Perhaps time to re-file the appeal?? If Chicago can't impose restrictions, how can Boston??
Click to expand...

I don't know what they require of FID applicants. Unless someone is <21 yo I can't see anyone going for an FID instead of a LTC. Both have essentially the same MGL requirements and cost. Why pay $100 for a hot dog when the same place offers fillet mignon (or lobster) for the same price?

You can only take the Boston test at Moon Island (Boston PD training range) with their guns/ammo/range officers. They do not charge extra for this.

As for training, Home Firearms Safety (or even Basic Pistol) is not meant to make you a marksman, nor real preparation for a test (210/300 is passing) like the Moon Island test.

For those that want training specific to that need, I do offer this at the Braintree R&P Club and to date nobody who has come to me prior to taking the Moon Island test has failed it on the 1st attempt.
 
LenS said:
For those that want training specific to that need, I do offer this at the Braintree R&P Club and to date nobody who has come to me prior to taking the Moon Island test has failed it on the 1st attempt.
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I had a fellow who came to me after he failed. We spent a few hours together on a three occasions and he then passed easily.

It isn't a particularly hard test. Yes, it is BS, but it isn't going away soon.
 
sevenMMmag said:
what is the course of fire for this Moon Island test?
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The short answer:

12 rds @ 7 yds, 1-handed, double-action
18 rds @ 15 yds, 2-handed, single-action (actually you can do it either way . . . as I noted usually results in better scores)

They are also watching your range safety and do things in a way to really test that. You definitely can fail on safety.
 
StevieP said:
lemme get this straight. Before I could get an LTC in Boston, I'd have to pay to take a "range test" at some firing range, using the police's .38? What if I only ever wanted to hunt with a shotgun (and don't say I should just apply for an FID!)? Would they let the applicant take the "range test" with a shotgun? I've never shot a .38, and cannot for the life of me guess whether I'd pass this test. Do they give you practice time before the 'test?' I took a basic homeowner gun safety class. We 'handled' revolvers, semi-automatics, rifles, and shotguns in the class, but there was no live fire requirement as part of the state-mandated curriculum, so I'm confused how a city or town can impose some regulation above and beyond the State's requirement.

Would the Keller or McDonald rulings have any effects on these old judgments? Perhaps time to re-file the appeal?? If Chicago can't impose restrictions, how can Boston??
Click to expand...

When I took my test, it was the second time I had ever fired a handgun - the first being the 'safety test' at the club I joined a week before Moon Island. I actually did pretty well on the test, but I agree, it's complete BS. Also, you don't have to pay anything in addition to the $100 license fee to take the range test.
 
the test isn't that serious. when i took it the guy next to me shooting couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. i think he put a few through my target.[laugh] he still passed. good guys up there. maybe they were feeling good that day.
 
bill o said:
It's particularly hard and painful if you have arthritis.
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Yup. Or if you have small hands and are undergoing treatment for lung cancer. That student gave up -- there was no way she could take the test on an outdoor range on Boston Harbor in February.
 
mvagusta77 said:
the test isn't that serious. when i took it the guy next to me shooting couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. i think he put a few through my target.[laugh] he still passed. good guys up there. maybe they were feeling good that day.
Click to expand...

I agree, the officer that was there the day I took the test really wanted everyone to pass. As long as you have the slip they give you with the date / time you're supposed to show up and you're on time it shouldn't be much of a problem. We were allowed to shoot the whole thing with two hands even though there's a one handed requirement. After becoming a member of a local club, going to the police station, paying $100, the test a Moon Island was the easy part.
 
my dad used to give the tests in the 90's...they got rid of the guy who was handing the applicant a loaded gun, if the applicant didn't ask to open the cylinder and check the weapon before receiving it, this guy was failing them.
dad: 'move closer, you better not be shooting anybody at 50ft!"
 
I was thinking the ADA, which was enacted after Macnutt, in 1990. It wouldn't apply though.
 
bill o said:
It's particularly hard and painful if you have arthritis.
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Yup, there is no way that my Wife would be able to shoot a random revolver double-action either. The gun I use to teach students for the Moon Island test actually belongs to my Wife and I had Greg Derr do a trigger job on it so that my Wife could operate it double-action.

M1911 said:
Yup. Or if you have small hands and are undergoing treatment for lung cancer. That student gave up -- there was no way she could take the test on an outdoor range on Boston Harbor in February.
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Understood

bill o said:
If only there were a federal law prohibiting discrimination based on disability...
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M1911 said:
That approach was already tried. We lost:
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The Karen MacNutt (Atty) case was before ADA became law.

I've been hoping and praying that someone will bring an ADA action (in FEDERAL court, MA courts are a lost cause) against BPD/Mumbles for this test. Hasn't happened since ADA became law and LE flaunt the fact that Karen MacNutt lost her case and therefore Boston/Brookline are free to do as they please.
 
LenS said:
Yup, there is no way that my Wife would be able to shoot a random revolver double-action either. The gun I use to teach students for the Moon Island test actually belongs to my Wife and I had Greg Derr do a trigger job on it so that my Wife could operate it double-action.
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My understanding from my students is that that the revolvers at Moon Island are well worn, but accurate and have a relatively light action.

I still agree that this test is discriminatory and abusive, but your wife might actually be able to pass it.
 
M1911 said:
My understanding from my students is that that the revolvers at Moon Island are well worn, but accurate and have a relatively light action.

I still agree that this test is discriminatory and abusive, but your wife might actually be able to pass it.
Click to expand...

Not living in Boston and since I will NEVER live there, it's a non-issue to us personally. Just used my Wife as "live example" of someone with Carpal Tunnel, etc. and unable to do some of these actions. If she ever had to endure that type of test, she'd just walk away and say "forget it" . . . and I think that this is the real intent by the higher ups that mandated this sort of testing.
 
LenS said:
Not living in Boston and since I will NEVER live there, it's a non-issue to us personally. Just used my Wife as "live example" of someone with Carpal Tunnel, etc. and unable to do some of these actions. If she ever had to endure that type of test, she'd just walk away and say "forget it" . . . and I think that this is the real intent by the higher ups that mandated this sort of testing.
Click to expand...
It certainly does have that affect. I really felt bad when my student gave up, but I understood why she came to that decision. She had lung cancer and had to decide how to spend her limited time that she had left. It pissed her off, though. And me too.
 
Has anyone ever challenged it under the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment? Just curious.


I thought about this example.

The CoP of Boston in essence can manipulate the State law where residents of Boston have to drive at a speed limit of 25 miles per hour. Another resident of Massachusetts from a different town, if authorized by the CoP in his city of residence can drive in Boston at 40 miles per hour.
 

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