Bolt Carrier

sschevy

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I'd love to see the websites on the interwebs where all this lmt quality control information hides. Why not post it right on the website?. I'd be bragging about that high level of quality control, I think any company would
Cuz listening to forum blabber isnt believable, as SSchevy had stated earlier.
Claims of Mpi testing aluminum charging handles is the first sign of not believing the hearsay.
HMMM ....Guess you can't search a website effectively , its all right on the LMT site in black and white


copied directly from the LMT site:

LMT® MWS barrels come in a wide array of lengths, materials, and calibers allowing the shooter, or an organization, to tailor fit one system to almost any mission. Our barrels are cryogenically treated for lasting durability and thoroughly tested for quality and accuracy. Barrel change does not require any special tools, is as simple as the removal of two screws, and can be performed in under one minute

LMT® produces the only one-piece upper receiver in the industry. Made of high grade aluminum, this provides a top end that is both durable and accurate. Its unique design allows the operator to change barrel length and caliber in under one minute with minimal point of impact shift. There are three styles of upper receiver to choose from.

thats just the tip of the iceberg for info on the site

and as far as the charging handle MP testing , you can believe what you choose but I only said it because I saw it happening right in from of me
 

dcmdon

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Somebody above mentioned that it comes down to what you are going to do with the gun/part.

I couldn't agree more.

Burn up an upper playing with a select fire lower - PSA all the way. $250 for a free floated upper - throw it away when it breaks, but it probably won't break for a while.

Need a decent BCG for a toy AR. - Its tough to be an $80 AIM BCG.

Need a BCG for your go to rifle - spend a bit extra.

LMT BCGs are not $350. The retail price is $229 for a high quality inspected mil spec BCG. The $350ish number comes from their proprietary "enhanced" BCG. Whic isnt necessary if you want LMT quality. The enhanced bolt isn't worth it based on my FIRST HAND experience, primarily because it doesn't seem to work any better than any standard quality BCG with a Crane O ring, and also because it uses proprietary springs.

I will admit though, I haven't looked at their stuff in several years, and I'm a bit startled at the price increase.
 
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Dennis in MA

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4D993E39-9D3D-4C1F-A7A2-7A35CB8F3D26.jpeg

Here is the Toolcraft. Just doesn’t seem deep. Wondering if I should contact the reseller or just try and fix it myself.
 

dcmdon

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Just found this photo from c 2008. My first non-Colt AR.

A LMT MRP upper on a rare in-spec Olympic Arms pre-ban lower with a Japanese Nikon 1-4 scope and a crappy mount. Oh, and a Timney drop in trigger.

Loved the MRP upper. The key selling point of it was that you could change the barrel by loosening 2 allen bolts and it would return to zero when the same barrel was put back.

I hated those cheese grater handguards.



IMG_3982.JPG
 
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sschevy

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Please show us on the doll where LMT touched you.

-Mike
Nobody has a PSA with 10k rounds down the pipe? Or a colt, or a bcm, or a spikes, etc etc, That's still run fine?

There has to be specs and testing that show LMT is better than milspec, are they more reliable than mil-spec? Let's see the testing specs on all the components that are "better than milspec"
So far, from the research I've done, there is nothing that blows the mind when it comes to LMT testing, unless I just havent seen it yet.

Yes, rounds down the pipe helps, but it's not like it's the end all be all. Plenty of FN's ,etc etc with 10s of thousands of rounds without issues.
So the LMT bolt has a burlier extractor spring, wow.
its a lot more that just the extractor spring
View attachment 318149

Here is the Toolcraft. Just doesn’t seem deep. Wondering if I should contact the reseller or just try and fix it myself.
Those look fine , and nicely done too

The bolt heads are serrated so it doesn’t take much to keep them from loosening up and a good neat machine staking like the one in your photo is plenty to keep them in place
 

rkwjunior

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HMMM ....Guess you can't search a website effectively , its all right on the LMT site in black and white


copied directly from the LMT site:

LMT® MWS barrels come in a wide array of lengths, materials, and calibers allowing the shooter, or an organization, to tailor fit one system to almost any mission. Our barrels are cryogenically treated for lasting durability and thoroughly tested for quality and accuracy. Barrel change does not require any special tools, is as simple as the removal of two screws, and can be performed in under one minute

LMT® produces the only one-piece upper receiver in the industry. Made of high grade aluminum, this provides a top end that is both durable and accurate. Its unique design allows the operator to change barrel length and caliber in under one minute with minimal point of impact shift. There are three styles of upper receiver to choose from.

thats just the tip of the iceberg for info on the site

and as far as the charging handle MP testing , you can believe what you choose but I only said it because I saw it happening right in from of me
You can't MP test aluminum, or any non ferrous metals, so your eyes deceived you. So you can believe whatever you want. And now I'm supposed to believe internet forums?
The quotes you dropped from LMT's site does not in any way show the levels of quality control you are swooning over.

Lmts website is full of tacticool sexy parts.
M-lock rails
Piston uppers
Quick change barrels
Monolithic uppers
Full ambi lowers
Suppressor ready monolithic uppers.
Rifle length rails for the Chris Costa lobster claw.
I guess maybe these things are the norm now, so they really arent sexy anymore to everyone.
Non sexy to me would be clam shell handguards and carbine, delta ring quad rails, similar to colts line-up.
Lmt absolutely caters to the tacticool civilian market, way more than you want to accept, they really arent the military dedicated company your claiming.
Which means listening to internet forums isnt smart.
 

mac1911

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I thought complaining about and obsessing over gas key bolt staking went out with quad rails. Ha. Just breaking your balls. But in all seriousness, it takes like 10 minutes to fix.
It does but I go through this with parts suppliers. I pay you to make the parts so I dont have to or spend my time fixing it
They might as well send the bolt in pieces and charge less.
I also feel people think you need to see a huge displacement of metal across the entire gas key for the staking to hold.
Just need a good displacement from the side.
 

mac1911

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that is a bunch of crap about the batch testing , I've been there and witnessed the operation with my own eyes in person , i dont draw my conclusions from what I read on the internet , I learned that lesson years ago
What is crap, some companies batch test some dont.
Thought LMTs stance was they check every part ? Unlike assembly lines with bins of parts that if it fits its good.
 

mac1911

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View attachment 318149

Here is the Toolcraft. Just doesn’t seem deep. Wondering if I should contact the reseller or just try and fix it myself.
thier jig is probably fixed on one side . Old lady Malinda feeds it into the jig and pushed the foot switch . Kaklunk , staked , next. Looks fine to me also. It really does not take much. The ones that are staked across the top that look like chisel marks are not displacing enough energy/force as nice side stakes. I dont see a lot of ARs but I do look at all my friends ARs when problems arise. Seems gas key staking is less of a issue these days. My camera skills suck but its time for my yearly inventory check and clean . If I remeber i will post pics of the 8 different bolts I have on hand to compare stake marks.
Heres some From a google search.
Theres also some super fancy gas key retainer bolts with heavy "grooves" that you can smoosh more displaced metal into to. They look like your front sight post detents. For those that remember what front sights are.....
 
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rkwjunior

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that is a bunch of crap about the batch testing , I've been there and witnessed the operation with my own eyes in person , i dont draw my conclusions from what I read on the internet , I learned that lesson years ago
Yet you want me to believe what I'm hearing here in this thread ?
Especially the part about MP testing aluminum.
Credibility, gone.
 

PappyM3

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...
Lmts website is full of tacticool sexy parts....I guess maybe these things are the norm now, so they really arent sexy anymore to everyone.
....
Lmt absolutely caters to the tacticool civilian market, way more than you want to accept, they really arent the military dedicated company your claiming
Yes, those things you described are no longer sexy and are the norm now. But, I do think you missed their standard patrol models:
EDCB8EB7-8754-4553-959F-8CADF1B82B42.jpeg

They’re a company of less than 150 people who provide full weapon systems to the UK and Kiwis on contract, and also to many police departments. They also provide parts to the DoD. I don’t have the numbers, but I would wager they spend most of their time selling to government agencies.

So yes, they are heavily weighted to selling to professionals.
 

rkwjunior

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thier jig is probably fixed on one side . Old lady Malinda feeds it into the jig and pushed the foot switch . Kaklunk , staked , next. Looks fine to me also. It really does not take much. The ones that are staked across the top that look like chisel marks are not displacing enough energy/force as nice side stakes.
I think you mean Juana, not Malinda..
 

rkwjunior

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Yes, those things you described are no longer sexy and are the norm now. But, I do think you missed their standard patrol models:
View attachment 318194

They’re a company of less than 150 people who provide full weapon systems to the UK and Kiwis on contract, and also to many police departments. They also provide parts to the DoD. I don’t have the numbers, but I would wager they spend most of their time selling to government agencies.

So yes, they are heavily weighted to selling to professionals.
Never missed those, but i was told here that they arent a company that caters to sexy parts. So I guess I was surprised to see sexy parts at all.

It's funny, when Colt bagged out of the game, all the haters said Colt was out of the game cuz they didnt make sexy parts like all the other sexy brands.
So now I'm confused, is sexy good or bad?

So if those things are not sexy, what is sexy now?

All of a sudden piston Ar's are good to go.?
 
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PappyM3

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Never missed those, but i was told here that they arent a company that caters to sexy parts. So I guess I was surprised to see sexy parts at all.

It's funny, when Colt bagged out of the game, all the haters said Colt was out of the game cuz they didnt make sexy parts like all the other sexy brands.
So now I'm confused, is sexy good or bad?

So if those things are not sexy, what is sexy now?
Captive buffer systems, anything with the Geissele name on it for some reason, mini-recces, retro XM177 clones, Mk18 clones... sexy isn’t necessarily about cutting edge with ARs. All the things you mentioned as being sexy on the LMT page are things that provide value in some form to a professionally used firearm. They’re not done just for looks or neckbeards.

But oh yeah, I forgot LMT also won a contract for the Estonian defense force and a contract to a South American country. They sell to civilians, but they’re not their target audience.
 

rkwjunior

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Captive buffer systems, anything with the Geissele name on it for some reason, mini-recces, retro XM177 clones, Mk18 clones... sexy isn’t necessarily about cutting edge with ARs. All the things you mentioned as being sexy on the LMT page are things that provide value in some form to a professionally used firearm. They’re not done just for looks or neckbeards.

But oh yeah, I forgot LMT also won a contract for the Estonian defense force and a contract to a South American country. They sell to civilians, but they’re not their target audience.
Your basic Ar15 with milspec parts as the previous picture shows is non sexy. You know it and I know it. That's exaclty why you sent a picture of a non sexy Ar15. Your digging deep now.
To You all these "NON" sexyparts from lmt are valuable, if they were made by spikes or BCM youd question their value and call them sexy.
I see the bias here. I'm not blind

There are lots of companies with small military contracts around the world.
Lwrc has had a few for sometime. But I remember when they were sexy.

Lmt targets to civilians more than colt ever did, judging by all the accessories and uppers etc etc on their website
 
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Dennis in MA

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its a lot more that just the extractor spring


Those look fine , and nicely done too

The bolt heads are serrated so it doesn’t take much to keep them from loosening up and a good neat machine staking like the one in your photo is plenty to keep them in place
Good to know. My 2 Bushy ones are heavily staked. Like dimpled into the screw head
 

mikelawtown

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This is a PSA premium one that I bought for a spare like five years ago
It’s ok.
I’ve been using an AIM surplus NIB and for probably eight years and maybe about 7000 rounds and it is still slippery and very smooth cycling ,that rifle I have never had a failure
 

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PappyM3

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Your basic Ar15 with milspec parts as the previous picture shows is non sexy. You know it and I know it. That's exaclty why you sent a picture of a non sexy Ar15. Your digging deep now.
To You all these "NON" sexyparts from lmt are valuable, if they were made by spikes or BCM youd question their value and call them sexy.
I see the bias here. I'm not blind

There are lots of companies with small military contracts around the world.
Lwrc has had a few for sometime. But I remember when they were sexy.

Lmt targets to civilians more than colt ever did, judging by all the accessories and uppers etc etc on their website
1.No, I didn’t show that picture because of any opinion of mine. I showed it because it’s precisely what YOU described as not sexy.

2.Over $20 million for the Estonian contract alone, nevermind the UK and Kiwi contracts. They are not a small player in the defense world.

3.Unlike LWRC, LMT’s presence in the defense world is not fleeting. They have solid history.

4. The parts you call sexy are valuable, you’re right. They have known value add to professional weapons. Years ago, I could agree that the monolithic uppers were “sexy”. But they’ve been around long enough that that’s not the case anymore. Government customers don’t want non-free float anymore either.

5. LMT does advertise to civilians a little, so yes they advertise to civilians more than Colt, but that’s a very low bar.
 
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rkwjunior

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1.No, I didn’t show that picture because of any opinion of mine. I showed it because it’s precisely what YOU described as not sexy.

2.Over $20 million for the Estonian contract alone, nevermind the UK and Kiwi contracts. They are not a small player in the defense world.

3.Unlike LWRC, LMT’s presence in the defense world is not fleeting. They have solid history.

4. The parts you call sexy are valuable, you’re right. They have known value add to professional weapons. Years ago, I could agree that the monolithic uppers were “sexy”. But they’ve been around long enough that that’s not the case anymore. Government customers don’t want non-free float anymore either.

5. LMT does advertise to civilians a little, so yes they advertise to civilians more than Colt, but that’s a very low bar.
I said I see sexy parts all over LMT's website.
So you send a pic of a basic rifle to prove its NOT all about sexy on their website. So you agree that a basic m4 is not sexy. Totally agree.

95% of the US military uses delta ring, fsp quad rails, or the plastic clamshell. Full free float hasnt proven its strength, without support of both ends of the rail.
The sexy stuff is valuable to YOU, the consumer. The grunt in the hole doesnt give crap about monolithic uppers, or Chris Costa rails.
They want it to run reliably, which a few brands have done for 50+ years.

So long story short. Are we saying that LMT's prices are worth the price of admission? Can any other companies say that?
 

mac1911

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1.No, I didn’t show that picture because of any opinion of mine. I showed it because it’s precisely what YOU described as not sexy.

2.Over $20 million for the Estonian contract alone, nevermind the UK and Kiwi contracts. They are not a small player in the defense world.

3.Unlike LWRC, LMT’s presence in the defense world is not fleeting. They have solid history.

4. The parts you call sexy are valuable, you’re right. They have known value add to professional weapons. Years ago, I could agree that the monolithic uppers were “sexy”. But they’ve been around long enough that that’s not the case anymore. Government customers don’t want non-free float anymore either.

5. LMT does advertise to civilians a little, so yes they advertise to civilians more than Colt, but that’s a very low bar.
$20mil contract dont mean much unless you know the details. How much of that is for the rifles and associated support parts ? Shipping, importexport taxes/fees blah blah blah.
Many "gov/mil" contracts are to the lowest bidder that can meet what ever the "specs" are for that part.

What do you think a government agency is willing to pay for M4s
Heck do we all believe Norinco cant put out a mil spec AR that will run and run and run?

Its all fun and you go with what you feel is best for your $$$
 

PappyM3

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I said I see sexy parts all over LMT's website.
So you send a pic of a basic rifle to prove its NOT all about sexy on their website. So you agree that a basic m4 is not sexy. Totally agree.
You clearly didn't read my post and the reason why I posted that picture.

95% of the US military uses delta ring, fsp quad rails, or the plastic clamshell. Full free float hasnt proven its strength, without support of both ends of the rail.
Cost is a factor for a force as large as the U.S. military. Strength is a factor, but is not the issue. DD free float rails on SDM M16s, Mk18s, Mk12s, SOCOM M4A1s, all with free float rails with no strength issue in combat for nearly the duration of GWOT. It's a cost issue and big Army / mil isn't going to change over until the current issued gear needs a new contract. You can bet that when the next large solicitation comes out for a standard issue carbine, it'll be free float.

The sexy stuff is valuable to YOU, the consumer. The grunt in the hole doesnt give crap about monolithic uppers, or Chris Costa rails.
They want it to run reliably, which a few brands have done for 50+ years.
False. I don't actually even have a use for LMT as a civilian. Their equipment is too heavy for my civilian use. It's built to be robust for military use, and would be overbuilt for my civilian needs. As an Infantryman before, or in my current .mil role, I would very happily run an LMT. Yes, the "grunt in the hole" absolutely cares about durable free float rails with enough space for good manipulation and lights/lasers etc. Otherwise Rangers and SF wouldn't have been rocking DD free float quad rails on their carbines for years already. Now do they care about monolithic uppers in particular? Probably not. But it just happens to be one way to obtain a durable free float handguard.

So long story short. Are we saying that LMT's prices are worth the price of admission? Can any other companies say that?
Price is a different story. I'm just saying they cater to militaries and police agencies, while not really advertising much to civilians. For me, the price is a downside. They make good products, but for civilian use, I'll go with other companies, with quality products, that are competitively priced for the civilian market.

Now, I'm very unbiased about LMT. In fact, they did have growing pains when they won the New Zealand contract. There were parts failures, but they have since been fixed and no further issues have arisen. But, this is the only LMT quality issue I've ever heard of.
 

PappyM3

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$20mil contract dont mean much unless you know the details. How much of that is for the rifles and associated support parts ? Shipping, importexport taxes/fees blah blah blah.
Many "gov/mil" contracts are to the lowest bidder that can meet what ever the "specs" are for that part.

What do you think a government agency is willing to pay for M4s
Heck do we all believe Norinco cant put out a mil spec AR that will run and run and run?

Its all fun and you go with what you feel is best for your $$$
The contract is for 16,000 rifles. Regardless of how much is getting absorbed by other costs, that is a very significant order for a company with less than 150 employees. It helps prove my point that their focus is on contracts and civilian sales are a side focus.

Generally, you are correct about contracts being won by the lowest bidder who can meet the specs. However, the specifications can include various thresholds and objectives. Many times a contract will be won by a company who can satisfy some of the objectives too, even if it costs a little more. Also, track records and manufacturing ability come into play frequently.

For the LMT / Estonian contract, I actually just came across this about the bid review process for Estonia:
In the review of the proposals, the outcome of a shooting test made up 10% of the overall score, the guaranteed number of shots throughout the weapon's life cycle 20%, length of the useful life of the weapon 30%, and the price 40%.

Lastly, the U.S. is willing to pay about $650 for an M4, but that's with a large order. For smaller orders, that price is likely to be higher. Estonia wouldn't be getting that deal with their smaller order, even from companies such as Colt/FN/Sig.
 

sschevy

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What is crap, some companies batch test some dont.
Thought LMTs stance was they check every part ? Unlike assembly lines with bins of parts that if it fits its good.

that's exactly what I'm saying , LMT does test every single part. unlike windham and dozens of others that only test 1 in100 and assume the other 99 are good to go
 

rkwjunior

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You clearly didn't read my post and the reason why I posted that picture.



Cost is a factor for a force as large as the U.S. military. Strength is a factor, but is not the issue. DD free float rails on SDM M16s, Mk18s, Mk12s, SOCOM M4A1s, all with free float rails with no strength issue in combat for nearly the duration of GWOT. It's a cost issue and big Army / mil isn't going to change over until the current issued gear needs a new contract. You can bet that when the next large solicitation comes out for a standard issue carbine, it'll be free float.



False. I don't actually even have a use for LMT as a civilian. Their equipment is too heavy for my civilian use. It's built to be robust for military use, and would be overbuilt for my civilian needs. As an Infantryman before, or in my current .mil role, I would very happily run an LMT. Yes, the "grunt in the hole" absolutely cares about durable free float rails with enough space for good manipulation and lights/lasers etc. Otherwise Rangers and SF wouldn't have been rocking DD free float quad rails on their carbines for years already. Now do they care about monolithic uppers in particular? Probably not. But it just happens to be one way to obtain a durable free float handguard.


Price is a different story. I'm just saying they cater to militaries and police agencies, while not really advertising much to civilians. For me, the price is a downside. They make good products, but for civilian use, I'll go with other companies, with quality products, that are competitively priced for the civilian market.

Now, I'm very unbiased about LMT. In fact, they did have growing pains when they won the New Zealand contract. There were parts failures, but they have since been fixed and no further issues have arisen. But, this is the only LMT quality issue I've ever heard of.
Your saying those parts I listed arent sexy for the sake of argument. They are sexy parts, you know it, I know it. Hence the picture of the basic m4 you thought I missed. That's the only reason you posted it, cut the crap, I wasn't born yesterday.
Special forces etc etc are a small niche. In the grand scheme of things the grunts put more wear and tear on equipment than anyone else. Not taking away anything from special forces of course but the general population tends to be tougher on equipment. Of course price is an issue. But it cant cost much to swap over a free float rail to the military masses. It's just not enough benefit to justify it.
Too robust for civilian use? Lol. I mean cmon. You expect me to believe that?
I'll take robust, whether it sits in my safe or not.
The fact is the pricing is geared for the civilian market, sexy parts equal sexy prices.
And nothing I've seen here has remotely shown how amazing lmt quality control is. Especially when New Zealand gets a batch of bad rifles? How does that happen at all when each part is inspected individually, and such low volume?
Isnt that the basis of this LMT love fest, the fact that they will have less chance of issues? Yet they send out bad rifles for a military contract?..lol
Yup. This is the internet...lol
All credibility, gone.
I rest my case.
 

mikelawtown

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my AIM NIB BCG’s have been flawless in probably 6-7k rounds. Still slick to the touch and was like 109 dollars
Big Edit: After many rounds the BCG I thought was flawless broke, yup my bolt broke earlier and now deciding which bolt to get between BCM, SOLGW or Sharps ( which I like)
 

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