Body camera video of a police shooting.

While in hindsight this would have been the best choice, the real question in my mind is did the cop act rationally and prudently. The answer is clearly yes. For all we know, the cop might be thinking to himself that he should have just waited. However I don't believe that the cop felt that he could properly secure the perimeter of the house ALONE. You could hear him asking about back exits and windows. He was clearly worried about the guy leaving the house and hurting someone else. Imagine if the cop went back outside and the guy got out and hurt someone. Better to confront the problem. Now, if there were a half dozen guys who could cover all the sides, waiting would be preferable. But given the fact that he was alone, I think going inside was all that cop could do.

Yes, I know I sound like a bootlicker, but its clear by the cops voice, both his tone and his commands that he didn't go into that house hellbent on shooting someone.
 
Looks justified to me. Maybe a case of Death by Cop. The gun (vs Taser) was the right tool as the guy was advancing with the knife. A few quick steps and the cop could have been dead himself. That said, I'm not sure what protocol is once the firing starts. Should he have fired four times? Would once/double tap with pause been adequate to drop the guy?
 
weehooker said:
Looks justified to me. Maybe a case of Death by Cop. The gun (vs Taser) was the right tool as the guy was advancing with the knife. A few quick steps and the cop could have been dead himself. That said, I'm not sure what protocol is once the firing starts. Should he have fired four times? Would once/double tap with pause been adequate to drop the guy?
Click to expand...

The protocol is very simple, shoot until the threat is "neutralized". Don't stop, don't pause, keep squeezing until your problem is gone. Thats why a lot of training has gotten away from the double tap. People would shoot twice, then stop.
 
He has to be a rookie, you could hear the nervousness in his voice. I don't know, I don't usually side with cops but this guy did the right thing IMO. Eliminated what he thought was a threat.
 
LEOs don't shoot to wound. Good luck hitting a knee or arm on a moving target while your heart is racing at 180bpm. If you miss, you're getting cut.

LEOs follow the "shoot to stop" rule and aim for the center mass of the largest available target, which ideally is the chest area. He fired five rounds, the guy went down, and he stopped firing. He was completely in the right.
 
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ColdDayInHell said:
He has to be a rookie, you could hear the nervousness in his voice. I don't know, I don't usually side with cops but this guy did the right thing IMO. Eliminated what he thought was a threat.
Click to expand...

Because you wouldn't be nervous with a mentally unstable man approaching you with a knife. [rolleyes]
 
Given the suspect was essentially trapped in the apartment with no other means of egress, and was armed with only a knife, I think this particular incident would have been a good candidate for less-lethal weapons or even a good hostage negotiator. Perhaps I am an optimist, but after viewing the video I see little reason why the police officer absolutely "needed" to enter the apartment to "negotiate" with his firearm drawn when several other officers and perhaps other resources were available within seconds to minutes. Something like a flashbang, rubber ball grenade, or bean bag projectile could have been effective in rendering the suspect significantly less harmful so that multiple officers could disarm and restrain him.

However, under the (potentially avoidable) circumstances, the officer was certainly justified in shooting the suspect once he started advancing.
 
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He went in because he didn't know that he could contain the suspect. If there were 5 of them, then forming a perimeter would have made sense. But one cop can't keep a guy from sneaking out a back window. Then he's lost a crazed guy with weapon.

This cop did not want to shoot. He even pleads with the guy to come out, it was just a crash, whatever you are thinking of doing isn't worth it. Come out.
 
Did anyone notice the physical reaction of the cop right after he shot the guy?

You can tell his heart was racing and he was breathing heavily.

It set in AFTER the shots were fired but stayed cool up until that point.

This cop will probably never have to kill another person in his career (statistically).

This was probably one of the worst days in his life- one of the worst moments.

He stayed cool though out this traumatic incident but I bet he felt like he was getting sick while his heart and breathing went way up.

I never heard a persons breathing rate documented during a traumatic incident or immediately after.

Being that it was over at that point he did not have to control his heart rate to persevere though anything else but that was an enlightening observation on the tape.
 
Reptile said:
Did anyone notice the physical reaction of the cop right after he shot the guy?

You can tell his heart was racing and he was breathing heavily.

It set in AFTER the shots were fired but stayed cool up until that point.

This cop will probably never have to kill another person in his career (statistically).

This was probably one of the worst days in his life- one of the worst moments.

He stayed cool though out this traumatic incident but I bet he felt like he was getting sick while his heart and breathing went way up.

I never heard a persons breathing rate documented during a traumatic incident or immediately after.

Being that it was over at that point he did not have to control his heart rate to persevere though anything else but that was an enlightening observation on the tape.
Click to expand...

I noticed that too. Sucks to be put in that situation.
 
Body cameras seem to be worth using. But they should try and find a better place for it. The scene was obstructed when you needed to see detail the most. Perhaps on the shoulder would be better.

I think he was pretty reasonable actually, i was wondering how long it was going to take him to get in the damn room. But he was there, and it was obviously a very unknown situation.

Justified.

Edit : I take that back, it is on his shoulder.
 
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djmefitz said:
Justified yes but 5 shots. That guy was trigger happy
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When one decides to "KILL", he should shoot to kill.
5,7, or 18 rounds , don't matter.
You don't know how high the person is and how is he going to take the rounds and so many other variables.
You could say '3 were enough' , could you 100% guarantee that three rounds would have gotten the LEO out of harms way ?
If you'll ever be in the same situation, and decide to "KILL", and you only have two choices, 3 or 5 rounds, which one do you choose ?
The officer decided to "KILL", not "injure" or "disable", given that, he did the right thing, from his perspective.

The only argument from my side would be, was the LEO right in deciding to "KILL", we can all be wise after the fact. The dry facts are, someone has two knifes and is coming at you, what are you going to do?

==Edit==
I don't think the LEO was thinking at that second "Sure, I'm going to Kill him now, Yey me" , but after the fact, knowing that he put 5 rounds into the attacker, there's not much of a doubt that the LEO put maximum reasonable effort for the attacker to have 0% chance of possessing any risk to his environment. When doing so with a firearm or a knife, you are most likely to kill the attacker. You can't 'injure just enough' , if you 'injure just enough' , you may end up dead.
 
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Unless you are an assassin or a soldier, you never shoot to kill. You shoot to STOP.

It doesn't matter whether you are a cop or a citizen. When the aggression ends, so does your ethical right to use deadly physical force.
 
Mr. Gold said:
The officer decided to "KILL", not "injure" or "disable", given that, he did the right thing, from his perspective.
Click to expand...

Ok boss.

phaser.jpeg
 
Mr. Gold said:
When one decides to "KILL", he should shoot to kill.
5,7, or 18 rounds , don't matter.
You don't know how high the person is and how is he going to take the rounds and so many other variables.
You could say '3 were enough' , could you 100% guarantee that three rounds would have gotten the LEO out of harms way ?
If you'll ever be in the same situation, and decide to "KILL", and you only have two choices, 3 or 5 rounds, which one do you choose ?
The officer decided to "KILL", not "injure" or "disable", given that, he did the right thing, from his perspective.

The only argument from my side would be, was the LEO right in deciding to "KILL", we can all be wise after the fact. The dry facts are, someone has two knifes and is coming at you, what are you going to do?

==Edit==
I don't think the LEO was thinking at that second "Sure, I'm going to Kill him now, Yey me" , but after the fact, knowing that he put 5 rounds into the attacker, there's not much of a doubt that the LEO put maximum reasonable effort for the attacker to have 0% chance of possessing any risk to his environment. When doing so with a firearm or a knife, you are most likely to kill the attacker. You can't 'injure just enough' , if you 'injure just enough' , you may end up dead.
Click to expand...

Unless you are an assassin or a soldier, you never shoot to kill. You shoot to STOP. If you happen to take out the person's pelvic support and he crumples to the floor, still very much alive, you have lost your justification to continue shooting. It just so happens that shooting to kill and shooting to stop are usually the same thing.

It doesn't matter whether you are a cop or a citizen. When the aggression ends, so does your ethical right to use deadly physical force.
 
Mr. Gold said:
When one decides to "KILL", he should shoot to kill. 5,7, or 18 rounds , don't matter. ...

If you'll ever be in the same situation, and decide to "KILL", and you only have two choices, 3 or 5 rounds, which one do you choose ?
Click to expand...


Lighten up Francis... and why do I only have the choice of 3 or 5 rounds? Does my firearm only shoot bursts in prime numbers?
 

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