-
If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership The benefits pay for the membership many times over.
-
Be sure to enter the NES/MFS May Giveaway ***Canik METE SFX***
Body camera video of a police shooting.
- Thread starter slugworth
- Start date
Fair point. If I had a guy coming at me with a knife it would be 4-5 rounds, not 2.
Why should the cop exit the house? He is paid to be in those situations, if he left the house then what? Let the guy come outside and maybe add other people into the mix, no way. He did his job and deserves credit for it
- Joined
- May 12, 2013
- Messages
- 4,123
- Likes
- 6,718
I think your post absolutely sums it up. There are infinite what-ifs, but in order to retreat you can clearly see from the video that the officer would have to turn his back to make a swift exit out that door without taking on undue risk of tripping. His odds of escape or subduing the suspect at that point severely diminish. Better believe that kid's adrenal gland was blowing gaskets too...
- - - Updated - - -
Up to 7 in New York. Then you're screwed when unknown guy#2 comes round the corner.
AF83
NES Member
No, If the suspect kept marching towards the door then that is the point I would pull the trigger to avoid your Benny Hill analogy.
It seems as if cops are too quick to shoot in a lot of circumstances. They don't have time to be bothered with trying to calm the situation down. There was another officer available, one of them could have had a tazer on the suspect the other one a firearm. If option A fails, THEN go to option B.
Either way what is done is done. The officer was justified but I wouldn't say it was the right choice.
i assume the adrenaline got the best of him
D
Deleted member 12999
Why at the door? Why is that your bright-line?
Looks fine to me. The LEO did a nice job from beginning to end. I can't see how anyone could question any of it conditional on the LEO having a good reason to be there in the first place (and it seems he did have good reason).
People can still advance towards you after being shot. Let me guess, you would have done a much better job, right? Easy to say when you are sitting behind a computer.
You can Monday Morning QB this all you want if it makes you feel better.
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2010
- Messages
- 99
- Likes
- 14
Since I've been living in this area I can say that it was a good shoot. The officer and the CdA PD are professional. The different agencies out here don't get all JBT like I see in the east. A few years ago a citizen with a CWP (that's what they're called here) stopped a robbery with his pistol. The CdA PD stated in the news article that the citizen did the right thing and had an awards ceremony for him.
I still have ties to the northeast so I like to keep tabs on what's going on up there. I can tell you the last two areas I've lived in the police have a completely different mentality than they do in the east. My friend in CT tells me some horror stories so I tell him about the last two states I've lived in to let him know its not bad everywhere.
I still have ties to the northeast so I like to keep tabs on what's going on up there. I can tell you the last two areas I've lived in the police have a completely different mentality than they do in the east. My friend in CT tells me some horror stories so I tell him about the last two states I've lived in to let him know its not bad everywhere.
AF83
NES Member
It would have given the officer a chance for safety and the suspect may have backed down once the officer was out of HIS house.
"Hey you don't try to kill yourself! That's it, I'm going to kill you so you can't kill yourself."
There is really no point in arguing this. Opinions are like *******s, everyone has one and we both feel as if the other smells like shit. If you want shoot me a PM we'll meet up and get a coffee and talk about it.
It sucked all around. I feel sorry for the cop. He sounded compassionate. He was trying to talk the guy down before he got in the room.
Maybe he could have waited for a second man in, but it still would have ended the same way.
I'm a big fan of these body cams. I predict that we'll see a reduction of overall police misbehavior. Hopefully less dog shootings too...well maybe that's too much wishful thinking. We'll also see a lot more of the lowlife crap that cops have to deal with, which is what gives them the "just get home alive mentality."
Maybe he could have waited for a second man in, but it still would have ended the same way.
I'm a big fan of these body cams. I predict that we'll see a reduction of overall police misbehavior. Hopefully less dog shootings too...well maybe that's too much wishful thinking. We'll also see a lot more of the lowlife crap that cops have to deal with, which is what gives them the "just get home alive mentality."
Can't find anything wrong with the cop's actions here. Yes, a taser would have helped, but then again, too many cops use that as a punishment tool.
Im no fan of overzealous cops with guns, but I don't see what choice the officer had here - I kind of feel bad for him.
- - - Updated - - -
This - keep in mind, this is the same rationale the jury would be presented with if any of US had to fire on someone. Gee, Mr. AngelKing, did you REALLY need to fire ALL 6 shots in your revolver?
Im no fan of overzealous cops with guns, but I don't see what choice the officer had here - I kind of feel bad for him.
- - - Updated - - -
This - keep in mind, this is the same rationale the jury would be presented with if any of US had to fire on someone. Gee, Mr. AngelKing, did you REALLY need to fire ALL 6 shots in your revolver?
a rape whistle would have done the job.... ![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
The mother in Georgia did not too long ago.
I know what you are saying but you can argue that you had to use five rounds which is what it took for him to go down. If the Cop empty his mag then Id be the first to say that it was too much.
Anyhow, we are all different and would react to the same scenario differently.
D
Deleted member 12999
But that's really not the choices at that point. He wasn't sitting in a chair twiddling his thumbs deciding which of his own wrists to slit.
Opiinions may be like *******s, but I'm a police firearms instructor, use of force law instructor, and force on force simulations instructor who puts people in these positions in training to help work through these types of decisions. That's the ******* I am in this discussion. What kind are you?
Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
Homeboy was zombie walking towards the cop, not saying anything - creep factor goes way up if Im the guy with the gun and honestly, if you're committing to the fight, you're panicking said guy with gun - don't be shocked if you get the full volley of what's in the magazine.
dcmdon
NES Member
You shoot until the guy drops or stops his attack. When the guy dropped, the cop stopped shooting. That;s self defense 101.
Unlike some videos of cowboy cops, this guy clearly does NOT want to shoot.
If only Joe Biden were there. He could have offed a couple of shots in the air with his double barrel 12Ga which would have resolved the situation with no loss of life.
Last edited:
Personally would have thought less of the cop (given what I can see on the video) if he let the guy stab him.
I would have done the same if I had the gun and some guy with a knife was coming at me. /shrug
StevensMarksman
I would have done the same if I had the gun and some guy with a knife was coming at me. /shrug
StevensMarksman
Jsfitzgerald85
NES Member
I see nothing wrong with what the cop did, he told the guy several times and even backed up, he gave the guy all the time in the world to drop the knife, it wasnt a shoot first drop the weapon second situation. Anyone here would have done the exact same thing
The cop did what he was trained to do. The person had a deadly weapon and was proceeding towards the officer. Shoot, and shoot multiple times until he stops advancing towards you. It is automatic. It is the training.
As a civillian, I would probably try to back off before and shoot only if I could not back off, assuming he is closing in to 12 feet. I would try to do one shot, wait 2 seconds, and if he does not drop, I'd keep on shooting. This is only if the deadly weapon is a knife or similar.
Of course, I am fully aware I am talking as an armchair shooter, and I have no idea what I would do in reality if I faced that situation.
As a civillian, I would probably try to back off before and shoot only if I could not back off, assuming he is closing in to 12 feet. I would try to do one shot, wait 2 seconds, and if he does not drop, I'd keep on shooting. This is only if the deadly weapon is a knife or similar.
Of course, I am fully aware I am talking as an armchair shooter, and I have no idea what I would do in reality if I faced that situation.
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2010
- Messages
- 99
- Likes
- 14
Myself I wouldn't wait for him to get to 12 feet of me. It only takes a second for someone to lunge 21 feet to you. The FBI is thinking about increasing the 21 foot rule to 30 feet now. The fire 1 or 2 shots and reassess is great for the square range where paper doesn't shoot back. In real life you shoot until the threat is no longer one taking as many shots as needed. It's foolish to even think about using tasers or OC to stop someone with a deadly weapon.
Here's another one for you. It's also ok to use lethal force against someone that is trying to use a taser/stun device or OC against you. This is because their goal is to incapacitate you and make you at their mercy. Just like at your home and someone comes in who isn't suppose to be there, that person isn't using those tools or there to say hi or give you cookies.
speedy
NES Member
I say let the guy cut himself all he wants. It is his right and choice. The second he begins to move in the direction of the cop with a knife, well....that is a different story. All bets are off. Now the cop has to put the situation behind and move on, or live with the question whether or not he could have done something different. Even if you get 1000 reasons justifying your actions, you will always have that burning question, what if.... No winners. Only victims.
After having a little bit of time to think about this(which I realize the cop didn't) I do somewhat disagree with this. When the officer arrives the lady(not sure the relation) says he is in the house. The guy is alone in there so no other life is in danger at this point. So my question would be why enter the house at this point? You can't see him but you are told he is armed. Providing there is no other exit from the apartment wouldn't the right thing to do be to close the door and wait for everyone to show up. Maybe give the guy time to cool off instead the cop entered and further agitated a man he was already informed is in the house and wants to harm himself. By entering the home the cop basically guaranteed that the guy was going to die(not necessarily intentionally). Upon further revue I think that he should have just closed the door and said we are waiting for crisis management if he kills himself he kills himself in the mean time.
dcmdon
NES Member
Glockstones - I struggled with the same thoughts. If the guy is alone in the house and there is only one entrance, why not just hang back. I say this with FULL understanding that it is easy to armchair quarterback this sitting on the couch. The cop didn't have the luxury of time.
I think his primary concern was the guy would go out the back of the house. He wanted to get eyes on the guy to ensure he didn't go hurt someone else. You can hear him asking about back doors and windows.
If there is one thing that is obvious here is that this cop was not a gun happy JBT. He was under enormous pressure and reacted as well as I could imagine anyone reacting. You can hear in the audio, he is concerned about the guy going out the back. Before he shoots, your focus will be on the guy, but pay attention to the background. The cop is moving BACKWARDS trying to avoid shooting the guy. This is not the behavior of some jack booted swat guy who has trained to always move forward and just roll over anyone or anything that gets in his way.
The irony of course is if the guy had charged him and cut him before getting shot, we'd all be saying that the cop should have shot sooner. In my opinion this is about as clean a shoot as you will ever see.
I think his primary concern was the guy would go out the back of the house. He wanted to get eyes on the guy to ensure he didn't go hurt someone else. You can hear him asking about back doors and windows.
If there is one thing that is obvious here is that this cop was not a gun happy JBT. He was under enormous pressure and reacted as well as I could imagine anyone reacting. You can hear in the audio, he is concerned about the guy going out the back. Before he shoots, your focus will be on the guy, but pay attention to the background. The cop is moving BACKWARDS trying to avoid shooting the guy. This is not the behavior of some jack booted swat guy who has trained to always move forward and just roll over anyone or anything that gets in his way.
The irony of course is if the guy had charged him and cut him before getting shot, we'd all be saying that the cop should have shot sooner. In my opinion this is about as clean a shoot as you will ever see.
Last edited:
slugworth
NES Member
I tend to agree with you...
