Blackfive: POTUS less involved that sheer pirate stupidity

[andrew]

http://www.blackfive.net/main/2009/04/how-the-rescue-happened.html

I just finished listening to the press conference w/ ADM Gortney about the rescue of Captain Phillips. At the time it happened the USS Bainbridge was towing the lifeboat to calmer waters as the sea state was deteriorating. One of the pirates was on board the Bainbridge as the talks about obtaining Phillip's release continued. The lifeboat was approx. 25 m behind the Bainbridge when snipers on the fantail observed one of the pirates in the pilot house of the lifeboat pointing an AK-47 at the back of a tied up Phillips and the other two pirates on board were visible (at least shoulders and heads). The standing authority gave them clearance to engage the pirates if the life of the captain was in imminent danger. The on scene commander deemed this to be true and gave the order to fire. All three bad guys were taken out and then a rigid inflatable boat went to the lifeboat to retrieve Phillips. Iti is unknown at this point whether the shooters were SEALs or Marine Scout Snipers as both would have been available. This was not a rescue attempt ordered by National Command Authority i.e. the President. It was a reaction by the on scene commander under standard authority to safeguard the life of a hostage.

 

[Admin]

Edited... Never mind.

 

[BBQ.Uncle]

I'm sure we can all count on our glorious media to portray it this way:

Dear Leader Obama swung in on a vine, scooped up Captain Phillips and saved him from the clutches of those icky pirates, then commanded the sailors to open fire. Isn't he just dreamy? Then Obama returned Phillips to the Bainbridge, stuck a stimulus check in his hand, and flew off into the night to save another.

 

[celisup78]

I'm sure we can all count on our glorious media to portray it this way:

Dear Leader Obama swung in on a vine, scooped up Captain Phillips and saved him from the clutches of those icky pirates, then commanded the sailors to open fire. Isn't he just dreamy? Then Obama returned Phillips to the Bainbridge, stuck a stimulus check in his hand, and flew off into the night to save another.

Your story is close, but I think that you have one small part wrong. The sailors did not open fire on the pirates. Nope. Instead, Obama (using a teleprompter) convinced the pirates to turn on each other. Yep, I am sure that that is what happened.

 

[matt1956]

sad, but this will make him out like a hero to our press when he didnt do shit.

 

[tele_mark]

I'm sure we can all count on our glorious media to portray it this way:

Dear Leader Obama swung in on a vine, scooped up Captain Phillips and saved him from the clutches of those icky pirates, then commanded the sailors to open fire. Isn't he just dreamy? Then Obama returned Phillips to the Bainbridge, stuck a stimulus check in his hand, and flew off into the night to save another.

 

[dwarven1]

I'm sure we can all count on our glorious media to portray it this way:

Dear Leader Obama swung in on a vine, scooped up Captain Phillips and saved him from the clutches of those icky pirates, then commanded the sailors to open fire. Isn't he just dreamy? Then Obama returned Phillips to the Bainbridge, stuck a stimulus check in his hand, and flew off into the night to save another.

It will no doubt be in issue two of Barack The Barbarian.

 

[rcinma]

According to the Herald report:

The SEALS arrived on the scene by parachuting from their aircraft into the sea, and they were picked up by the Bainbridge, a senior U.S. official said.

Whoever took the shots, 3 shots - 3 kills, at night from the fantail of a moving ship. Granted the distance was only 25-30 meteres but that is still some damn fine shooting in my book.

 

[Pilgrim]

I heard people praising O on IMUS this morning and saying he wasn't the wimp that many think he is.

 

[Climbnsink]

Taken hostage on Wed. Deadly force authorized by POTUS on Fri. That is some decisive hard line leadership. The thing that struck me was before this ended the news reports all said POTUS was being kept aware of the situation. Not POTUS was conferring with military experts to work on this. Even if he isn't leading you would think his friends in the press could pretend.

 

[Bob P]

Honestly, IMO the best leadership the POTUS could excercise in this situation is the simple order 'take the shot when it presents itself' and then step the hell out. The last thing you want is him calling plays from the sidelines.

 

[vellnueve]

Honestly, IMO the best leadership the POTUS could excercise in this situation is the simple order 'take the shot when it presents itself' and then step the hell out. The last thing you want is him calling plays from the sidelines.

+10000.

I'm appalled at all the people who think POTUS should be micromanaging the situation. I do have an issue with him not authorizing lethal force earlier, but other than that, the decision needed to be left to the captain of the Bainbridge, which it was.

Micromanaging from the White House gets you:

1) No AC-130 support in Mogadishu.

2) Desert One

3) Vietnam

 

[FiremanBob]

The correct Presidential order would have been secret, on first being informed of the hijacking: "Admiral, you have full authority to save our hostages and kill the pirates at your earliest opportunity."

The correct response to the reporter's question was not: "Guys, we're talking about housing here." It would have been: "I'm sure you will understand that I cannot comment publicly on sensitive, ongoing operations."

The correct press statement after the rescue would have included: "I also want to thank the military personnel who so skillfully and professionally resolved this situation."

But these unAmerican clowns in the White House would never imagine saying such things. It wouldn't fit their ideology.

 

[BigWarden]

Had the plan backfired and the Captain been killed I'm sure we'd be hearing about how the Commander had acted without authority from the President and how he and the shooters responsible would be losing their careers over the incident.

 

[Bob P]

Had the plan backfired and the Captain been killed I'm sure we'd be hearing about how the Commander had acted without authority from the President and how he and the shooters responsible would be losing their careers over the incident.

Unfortunatly that's SOP nomatter who's in the White House.

 

[FeeBear]

The correct Presidential order would have been secret, on first being informed of the hijacking: "Admiral, you have full authority to save our hostages and kill the pirates at your earliest opportunity."

The correct response to the reporter's question was not: "Guys, we're talking about housing here." It would have been: "I'm sure you will understand that I cannot comment publicly on sensitive, ongoing operations."

The correct press statement after the rescue would have included: "I also want to thank the military personnel who so skillfully and professionally resolved this situation."

But these unAmerican clowns in the White House would never imagine saying such things. It wouldn't fit their ideology.

I understand that most people on here don't like the President, that is a right we all have but come on. He got out of the way and let the heroes do what they needed to do to save American Life. It is over, or do you think McCain would have done anything different?

Fireman, I hope that someday you become President so that you can have 300 Million people second guess your every move.

Fee

 

[RI_John]

It is over, or do you think McCain would have done anything different?

McCain would have sent Palin to shoot the pirates from a helicopter!

 

[Evergreen]

But these unAmerican clowns in the White House would never imagine saying such things. It wouldn't fit their ideology.

We should steer clear of terms like "unAmerican". Questioning someone's patriotism, no matter how much you disagree with them, is not constructive.

I have no problem with "clowns", though.

 

[TomH]

Thats funny, the media is reporting the order came straight from Obama... I highly doubt this because it was described as a very last second decision based on what was happening at that moment.

 

[P-14]

I give O a +1 for this. He let the Navy handle it and they did - superbly. Other fearless leaders, like William Jefferson Clinton, wouldn't have allowed the Navy to make the call and the Captain would have been dead.

Please, before you crucify me, I gave O a -10000 for the pork bailout package. So, in my book, he's -9999 and has a long way to go.

 

[2000GM]

I would like to think ANY President would have OK'd the order. They're making it sound like Obama came up with the plan. Saying this improves/proves his "toughness" is like saying a dog is a good dog simply because he didn't bite the guy who just walked past you.

 

[Bob P]

1 I hate Obama

2 He made the right call in giving the Navy the OK to proceed.

3 We may like to think all POTUS's would have made the same call but before yesterday ALL of us were expressing grave doubts he would do so - so credit where it's due. It was the first direct forign threat the administration's had to deal with and it was handled well.



Does this all mean anything? No.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day

 

[Negotiator]

I give O a +1 for this. He let the Navy handle it and they did - superbly. Other fearless leaders, like William Jefferson Clinton, wouldn't have allowed the Navy to make the call and the Captain would have been dead.

Please, before you crucify me, I gave O a -10000 for the pork bailout package. So, in my book, he's -9999 and has a long way to go.

Well put Bob...

Tactical command of any hostage situation has to be with the senior officer at the scene. The order to use deadly force would need to be a tactical decision based on events as they unfolded in front of the team dealing with it...It could NOT and would not have been POTUS's call as the real time volatile nature of any such stand off renders remote control of the situation not only dangerous but total impractical.

POTUS would have given approval for the DF option from the outset, then got the hell out of the way of the professionals and let them do their jobs.

Tactically, this had dragged on for way too many days, given the unlikely event of a negotiated end to the stand off. But, when the shot presented itself for all three hostiles - and it had to be all three - the sniper team took them out. Damn fine piece of shooting in my opinion.

 

[vellnueve]

Yep, it was the best chance they'd had the whole time. Because one of them was on the ship and the other three were dumb enough to show themselves at the same time.

 

[VinylSquares]

I'm glad Obama was able to fit saving this poor man into his busy schedule between "picking the presidential dog" and "pissing off/bowing before various heads of state".

Hope and Change!!

 

[terraformer]

Honestly, IMO the best leadership the POTUS could excercise in this situation is the simple order 'take the shot when it presents itself' and then step the hell out. The last thing you want is him calling plays from the sidelines.

Exactly. He could have easily said this was a civil matter and this would have removed any possible naval support from the picture. Without the navy, there would have been no brainbridge and no 25 m shot, et al; Just the cost of the insertion jump off the coast of somalia probably cost a couple of hundred grand to put in motion and was risky. He could have placed serious limitations on the operation like requiring them to travel to africa and then helio to the bainbridge (which has a pad) which would have seriously delayed the deployment time. However, he signed off on the op, stayed out of the details and left the rest to be handled by the professionals. Clinton and Bush's 41 and 44 should have been so circumspect.

These types of decisions to not provide support for kidnappings are made daily and have resulted in numerous hostages killed or never recovered in South America and elsewhere. BO did the right thing. It should never have been in question nor should he be hailed a hero for it.

 

[M1911]

1) No AC-130 support in Mogadishu.

Also no armored vehicles in the Mog.

 

[freedom2012]

I heard people praising O on IMUS this morning and saying he wasn't the wimp that many think he is.

I heard that too.

Imus is like a boot full of shit, no matter what size you wear, it will mold to the prevailing foot.

 

[Negotiator]

Exactly. He could have easily said this was a civil matter and this would have removed any possible naval support from the picture. Without the navy, there would have been no brainbridge and no 25 m shot, et al; Just the cost of the insertion jump off the coast of somalia probably cost a couple of hundred grand to put in motion and was risky. He could have placed serious limitations on the operation like requiring them to travel to africa and then helio to the bainbridge (which has a pad) which would have seriously delayed the deployment time. However, he signed off on the op, stayed out of the details and left the rest to be handled by the professionals. Clinton and Bush's 41 and 44 should have been so circumspect.

These types of decisions to not provide support for kidnappings are made daily and have resulted in numerous hostages killed or never recovered in South America and elsewhere. BO did the right thing. It should never have been in question nor should he be hailed a hero for it.

+1

 

[vellnueve]

Also no armored vehicles in the Mog.

Well, they had the Pakistani tanks... I think the AC-130 would have been of much more utility though. Nothing says F*** off like a rain of 20mm and 40mm shells.