Black teen shot after ringing the wrong doorbell while picking up his siblings, police say

[StevieP]

so, this is one old man shooting one young POC.

Is this thread open for "whataboutisms?" Because we can find a metric buttload of black on white crime. Home invasions. Burglaries. "Knock out game" The summer of love mostly peaceful demonstrations, etc.

These pieces of crap go out looking to cause trouble for innocent people. So, yeah, an old dude in his own house was scared for his safety after observing a lifetime of black-on-white crime. Forgive me for mostly giving him a pass.

 

[ThePreBanMan]

I meant it as a colloquialism for age-related cognitive decline. Moreover, I used the language "propose an explanation" in concert with other known facts, which does not imply that it is a narrative I am promoting. I presented it as an alternative to the conclusion that you so eagerly leapt to. Their accounts are consistent in every detail save two. One is Yarl trying to open the door and the other is what Lester said (if anything) after shooting. The latter does not seem important, but the former is the very crux of Lester's story. One of them has this wrong.

If Lester has it wrong, how would you explain his behavior, hypothetically speaking?

But in any case, do tell why you presume Lester's account is the truth and Yarl's account not? Please note that this is different from play-acting as jury in the criminal case. We know the state has the burden of proof, so as jurors we would be required to give Lester the benefit of any reasonable doubt. Frequently that results, or should result, in jurors voting to acquit in cases where they think the defendant is probably guilty. I presume that is what will happen here, anyway, though Crump and friends will do everything they can to try to bully the proceedings.

The conclusion I "so eagerly leapt to" is that he's innocent until proven guilty...

"But in any case, do tell why you presume Lester's account is the truth"

...because our system of justice is based upon the presumption of innocence...

If you have a problem with that, I'm not your guy. Take it up with the founding fathers.

 

[Tinkermatic]

.

The kid was trying to open the front door. I don't care who you are, you don't start opening doors into a stranger's home. Even just screen doors.

That's what got him shot. If somebody was on your front porch trying to open your front door, and the Split Second that follows something tells me you would have a very different opinion of the situation.

I open every storm door I encounter to knock on the entry door. Most people can’t hear you knocking on aluminum or glass. The thud of an entry door does the trick. Perhaps he was trying that method when gramps finally showed up and opened the prime door?
Also, most storm doors I encounter are in rough shape and knocking on them brings the risk of breaking them, just like the guy in the article Reptile posted, which also got him shot. Jesus, I need a new line of work.

 

[ThePreBanMan]

.

I open every storm door I encounter to knock on the entry door. Most people can’t hear you knocking on aluminum or glass. The thud of an entry door does the trick. Perhaps he was trying that method when gramps finally showed up and opened the prime door?
Also, most storm doors I encounter are in rough shape and knocking on them brings the risk of breaking them, just like the guy in the article Reptile posted, which also got him shot. Jesus, I need a new line of work.

That's what the doorbell is for bro. I don't think it's appropriate to open someone's "storm door", "screen door" or whatever flavor of the moment you want to call it. That's attempted entry IMHO. A door is a door, and unless it's opened for you, you got no business opening it yourself....

So what do you do if someone has their 2nd "main door" open and just the screen door closed? You just let yourself into their house? Why should you behave differently when their main entrance is closed then?

You may not think it's a big deal.. But, consider that your opinion doesn't mean shit when you're on someone else's property.

 

[Tinkermatic]

That's what the doorbell is for bro. I don't think it's appropriate to open someone's "storm door", "screen door" or whatever flavor of the moment you want to call it. That's attempted entry IMHO. A door is a door, and unless it's opened for you, you got no business opening it yourself....

So what do you do if someone has their 2nd "main door" open and just the screen door closed? You just let yourself into their house? Why should you behave differently when their main entrance is closed then?

Fun tidbit, less than half the doorbells I encounter work. Heck, I disconnected mine years ago. Obviously if the main door is open I’m knocking on the storm because they’ll definitely hear it with an open door. These are just my observations and opinions on the matter as someone who’s knocked on roughly 20 doors a week for the last 7 years. I even have a routine. Ring bell, count to 30 and listen for audible cues (thank you dog owners) then start knocking. With a closed entry door and shit storm door, I’m far less likely to rouse someone, hell yes I’m opening your storm door to knock, otherwise reconnect your doorbell.

 

[meh]

The conclusion I "so eagerly leapt to" is that he's innocent until proven guilty...

"But in any case, do tell why you presume Lester's account is the truth"

...because our system of justice is based upon the presumption of innocence...

The presumption of innocence is a premise, not a conclusion, hence the word "presumption". I'm on record as saying the matter should be decided in court. I expect he will be acquitted because of the benefit of the doubt. I have no problem with that. I applaud that about the system, in fact. But, if you ask me what I think happened and why it happened, I'm going to tell you I wasn't born yesterday.

 

[MAGA99]

so, this is one old man shooting one young POC.

Is this thread open for "whataboutisms?" Because we can find a metric buttload of black on white crime. Home invasions. Burglaries. "Knock out game" The summer of love mostly peaceful demonstrations, etc.

These pieces of crap go out looking to cause trouble for innocent people. So, yeah, an old dude in his own house was scared for his safety after observing a lifetime of black-on-white crime. Forgive me for mostly giving him a pass.

It’s nobody in this situations fault, but to deny that a black kid yanking on a door, uninvited, unexpected, is not a real threat is to deny reality. It’s not the old man’s fault. It’s not the kids fault. It’s all the black people before him that have given people with his pigmentation a really bad (but statistically accurate) rap.

It sucks, but that’s the truth of the matter.

 

[MAGA99]

Fun tidbit, less than half the doorbells I encounter work. Heck, I disconnected mine years ago. Obviously if the main door is open I’m knocking on the storm because they’ll definitely hear it with an open door. These are just my observations and opinions on the matter as someone who’s knocked on roughly 20 doors a week for the last 7 years. I even have a routine. Ring bell, count to 30 and listen for audible cues (thank you dog owners) then start knocking. With a closed entry door and shit storm door, I’m far less likely to rouse someone, hell yes I’m opening your storm door to knock, otherwise reconnect your doorbell.

My house never had one to begin with, built 86-87. But if your on my front porch I already knew you were there….

 

[Tinkermatic]

My house never had one to begin with, built 86-87. But if your on my front porch I already knew you were there….

Many homes still don’t have them and with those that do, very few are ever locked. They’re not added security by any means, especially with a screen in place. Before central air they were vital to get a good cross-breeze flowing through your house. They also help in winter, an air gap between your entry door does wonders (and keeps snow at a distance as well). Just to add to my willingness to open them, as many houses that have non-functioning doorbells have door knockers on their entry doors, behind a storm door. I love door knockers and I’m opening your storm door to use it.

In full disclosure, I’m knocking on the doors of people I have had previous contact with and or are hopefully expecting me (assuming I have the correct information, which isn’t always true).

 

[pastera]

I have a working doorbells and two way audio cameras at my doors - plus you can hear the bell when you ring either.
If you are tugging on a handle at that point you are trying to enter, not alert.

 

[Waher]

View: https://twitter.com/DC_Draino/status/1649436462151254018

 

[KBCraig]

The kid was trying to open the front door.

And you know this... how?

 

[T-Unit]

Supposedly, it was an S&W 1888 Safety Hammerless Revolver in .32 S&W (Short).

Smith & Wesson Safety Hammerless - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The guy is 84, not 184. It was probably an H&R .32 Long topbreak.

 

[T-Unit]

It’s nobody in this situations fault, but to deny that a black kid yanking on a door, uninvited, unexpected, is not a real threat is to deny reality. It’s not the old man’s fault. It’s not the kids fault. It’s all the black people before him that have given people with his pigmentation a really bad (but statistically accurate) rap.

It sucks, but that’s the truth of the matter.

I agree. If Black kids were revered for their pacifism and politeness like the Amish this guy wouldn't have had good reason to shoot him.

 

[Bonesinium]

That's what the doorbell is for bro. I don't think it's appropriate to open someone's "storm door", "screen door" or whatever flavor of the moment you want to call it. That's attempted entry IMHO. A door is a door, and unless it's opened for you, you got no business opening it yourself....

So what do you do if someone has their 2nd "main door" open and just the screen door closed? You just let yourself into their house? Why should you behave differently when their main entrance is closed then?

You may not think it's a big deal.. But, consider that your opinion doesn't mean shit when you're on someone else's property.

I don't have a door bell and knocking on a screen door seems rather futile if the point of knocking is to get someone's attention.

 

[EJFudd]

The guy is 84, not 184. It was probably an H&R .32 Long topbreak.

That was direct from the police report posted above. Some cop apparently knows his antiques.

 

[Toast]

The conclusion I "so eagerly leapt to" is that he's innocent until proven guilty...

...because our system of justice is based upon the presumption of innocence...

Well, not really. A jury is supposed to start with a presumption of innocence. No one else in the system (or general society, for that matter) is under any such presumption. You would never get to prosecution if everyone did so, let alone bail, detention, or the rest.

The jury is supposed to start with the defendant innocent and wait for the state to prove otherwise. The rest of us, not so much. As an example, I don't care what the jury said, OJ did it.

So what do you do if someone has their 2nd "main door" open and just the screen door closed? You just let yourself into their house? Why should you behave differently when their main entrance is closed then?

That's an easy one. If the main door is open and there's a screen, you yell "Hello? Is anyone home?" with the expectation that they will hear you.

 

[Dr_Scholl]

I dunno - lots of services (lawn, oil, etc.) put the invoice in the screen door. If it’s windy, Amazon will put an order in the screen door rather then let it blow away. But only in the daylight. Kids with no smarts don’t deserve shooting, though.

The only time I can recall hearing the screen door open at night and a hard, long knock was the PD looking for my son. When I said he’d been at OSUT at Ft Benning for 22 weeks and just shipped to Ft Brag for Paratrooper school, their jaws dropped. They left without any explanation - clearly fingered wrongly (that time). Motion-activated lights came on and I could see cops and their cruiser parked in the street, so I responded with no firearms visible.

My take on this whole situation is he was a panicky old man, with probably not too great mental faculties, who was way too quick to start shooting.

 

[ThePreBanMan]

It’s nobody in this situations fault, but to deny that a black kid yanking on a door, uninvited, unexpected, is not a real threat is to deny reality. It’s not the old man’s fault. It’s not the kids fault. It’s all the black people before him that have given people with his pigmentation a really bad (but statistically accurate) rap.

It sucks, but that’s the truth of the matter.

Yea, pretty much sums it all up.

 

[MGnoob]

Huh?
Do you shoot at people turning around in your driveway too? I think there’s a difference between knocking on a door and refusing to leave “muh property” but I just can’t put my finger on it.

Come by and see what happens. I didn’t get this way overnight.

 

[headednorth]

So, yeah, an old dude in his own house was scared for his safety after observing a lifetime of black-on-white crime. Forgive me for mostly giving him a pass.

This is racist, but Blacks crying about the statistically minute number of, for the most part, violent criminals that end up eating a cops bullet justifies turning society upside down 3 years ago

 

[headednorth]

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I open every storm door I encounter to knock on the entry door. Most people can’t hear you knocking on aluminum or glass. The thud of an entry door does the trick. Perhaps he was trying that method when gramps finally showed up and opened the prime door?
Also, most storm doors I encounter are in rough shape and knocking on them brings the risk of breaking them, just like the guy in the article Reptile posted, which also got him shot. Jesus, I need a new line of work.

I think most of us would hear a knock on the storm door, but theres just something in our psyche that makes us want to open the storm door and knock on the entry door.

 

[MGnoob]

I think most of us would hear a knock on the storm door, but theres just something in our psyche that makes us want to open the storm door and knock on the entry door.

Answer your door is the worst possible thing you can do. It never ends well.

I don’t even lock my door at this point. To tired of replacing it.

 

[headednorth]

That's what the doorbell is for bro. I don't think it's appropriate to open someone's "storm door", "screen door" or whatever flavor of the moment you want to call it. That's attempted entry IMHO. A door is a door, and unless it's opened for you, you got no business opening it yourself....

A lot of bells dont work. I dont think theres anything wrong with opening a storm door to knock on an entry door.

So what do you do if someone has their 2nd "main door" open and just the screen door closed? You just let yourself into their house? Why should you behave differently when their main entrance is closed then?

If the storm door is closed and the entry door is open, then yeah Id leave it alone and knock on the storm door. If I open a storm door, the main door is still closed and Im relying on them to open it. Theres still a closed door between me and them and its up to the homeowner to decide if they want to open it or not. If the entry door is open already and the storm door is closed, its customary to leave it alone and let them decide to open it or not.

 

[headednorth]

Answer your door is the worst possible thing you can do. It never ends well.

I don’t even lock my door at this point. To tired of replacing it.

ANswering your door never ends well? Never?

 

[headednorth]

As long as we're on door knocking etiquette, taking a few steps back after youve knocked isnt a bad idea either, particularly if you dont know the person and they may or may not know youre coming. Puts everyone a little more at ease.

 

[Agnotology]

My without all the facts and lacking omnipotence makes me think this is going to fall into "lawful but awful"

Hope the kids lives and makes a full recovery.

 

[weekendracer]

.

I open every storm door I encounter to knock on the entry door. Most people can’t hear you knocking on aluminum or glass. The thud of an entry door does the trick. Perhaps he was trying that method when gramps finally showed up and opened the prime door?
Also, most storm doors I encounter are in rough shape and knocking on them brings the risk of breaking them, just like the guy in the article Reptile posted, which also got him shot. Jesus, I need a new line of work.

Well, do you knock on doors at 10pm?

I get what you're saying, when I was younger I did door to door sales and whatnot for various school/sport orgs. Not only am I white, but I didn't do it at night.

I'm still hoping for some video. I know, I know, it's not always available, but this incident has me REALLY thinking about installing a security system.

 

[fencer]

I think the kid is full of shit.

In his formal statement, he said he was shot in the head and while he was laying on the ground, the old man shot him a second time in the arm. Think about that.

 

[millbilly]

That's what the doorbell is for bro. I don't think it's appropriate to open someone's "storm door", "screen door" or whatever flavor of the moment you want to call it. That's attempted entry IMHO. A door is a door, and unless it's opened for you, you got no business opening it yourself....

So what do you do if someone has their 2nd "main door" open and just the screen door closed? You just let yourself into their house? Why should you behave differently when their main entrance is closed then?

You may not think it's a big deal.. But, consider that your opinion doesn't mean shit when you're on someone else's property.

Bro you're out of touch with reality. I do service work mostly on residential homes and so many bells don't work. If the door trim is vinyl or aluminum clad a knock doesn't make enough noise. Nobody in real life gets upset about you knocking on their entry door.