Best way to make a purchase online

[Al-Jim19]

I’m a member of another gun related forum that does not have a feedback system like NES. I’m thinking I’m going to purchase some items from a member there but I’m a bit apprehensive since I don’t know the guy. Seems like a straight shooter but I’m hoping to be sure(er).

If you were making a purchase like that how would you go about it? Specifically looking for feedback about sending money and making sure he ships the items he’s agreed to ship.

 

[SKumar]

Zero chance I would pay first. Anything that's shipped is paid at the time the FFL receives it. Even here with NES feedback system, you still gotta do things the right way.

 

[92G]

DavidK posted a clever option a while back. IIRC it involved doing an FFL -> FFL. He would call the out-of-state FFL to confirm the seller is there and the firearm looks legit. There's no way an FFL would be involved in a scam of this variety. As soon as issued a tracking # he would send them payment. Personally I find it a solid option because any legit seller wouldn't have an issue with this. If they are FOS then they'd balk.

Zero chance I would pay first. Anything that's shipped is paid at the time the FFL receives it. Even here with NES feedback system, you still gotta do things the right way.

sounds wonderful in principle but put yourself in perspective of the seller. I've done sales through gunbroker and would not be cool with that. just ship your firearm off and then when buyer gets to examine at their FFL then they pay? it puts too much control in the buyer. further the receiving FFL has NOTHING to do with the financial side of the transaction. the seller cannot expect them to act like some sort of advocate for their shitty deal.

on GB buyers/sellers have feedback. however i've done transactions with people who have no feedback and it's gone fine. most of the people who get scammed deserve it, especially on armslist.

 

[dw617]

Does the seller have a good rep on the forum? You might be able to even look at his old posts much like we can do here on NES.

I have bought and sold many rifles from other forums.

As an honest seller, I would not go for the FFL -> FFL option referenced in the post above me, unless there was some additional financial incentive for my time.

I also would not go for the "payment when my FFL receives the package" either, that would be a hard pass. You want the item shipped? I need payment and your FFL, thanks.

 

[whatluck]

You could always use certified mail to exchange a contract drafted by an attorney and certified by a notary, and put the money in an escrow account. Usually people do this for very large purchases like exotic cars or high end audio gear.

 

[daekken]

Definitely tricky. On another forum I'm on a guy got scammed out of $900 last week after he found out his "seller" had made an ad using pictures from someone else's listing.

I do most of my buying online but through FFL to me (C&R). The only non-FFLs I've bought from have been face-to-face.

I wonder if there's a business opportunity out there for a firearms escrow service?

 

[Al-Jim19]

It’s a few smaller non regulated items of medium value. There really shouldn’t be an FFL involved.

If it makes a difference he has like 2000+ posts on various topics and has been a member since 2007.

Is it reasonable for me to ask that he proves he ships first and then send whatever payment as soon as I can after that?

 

[FalArAk]

Get his address for a USPS money order.
a) This will give you a day or so to do research

Cross check his address for a residence and name on the internet.

Google his name,state etc.

Facebook.

Search his username on the forum for other forums he may belong to.

Takes 10 minutes.

If you aren't comfortable after that,eject.

 

[Al-Jim19]

Just to emphasize, it’s like $240 worth of parts, not a gun or receiver.

 

[jron]

Is it reasonable for me to ask that he proves he ships first and then send whatever payment as soon as I can after that?

No thats not reasonable. How is he to know the buyer wont skip out on payment? I for one am not shipping out dick without payment, and do not expect someone else to do so. I have done some transactions that made me weary where you could get screwed but never have been. Question is can you live with losing that money? If yes roll the dice, if no pass on the deal. It is like gambling at that point with no feedback or 3rd party like GB backing you up.

2 General rules to go by

If its too good to be true it isn't.

NEVER ship anything on Armslist.

 

[SKumar]

sounds wonderful in principle but put yourself in perspective of the seller. I've done sales through gunbroker and would not be cool with that. just ship your firearm off and then when buyer gets to examine at their FFL then they pay? it puts too much control in the buyer. further the receiving FFL has NOTHING to do with the financial side of the transaction. the seller cannot expect them to act like some sort of advocate for their shitty deal.

on GB buyers/sellers have feedback. however i've done transactions with people who have no feedback and it's gone fine. most of the people who get scammed deserve it, especially on armslist.

How about if the FFL does consignment on the condition that the seller gives the OK to transfer the gun? Maybe an extra few bucks on top of the regular transfer fee?

 

[ScottS]

DavidK posted a clever option a while back. IIRC it involved doing an FFL -> FFL. He would call the out-of-state FFL to confirm the seller is there and the firearm looks legit. There's no way an FFL would be involved in a scam of this variety. As soon as issued a tracking # he would send them payment. Personally I find it a solid option because any legit seller wouldn't have an issue with this. If they are FOS then they'd balk.

I'm a legit seller, and there's no way I'd put up with this. I'd tell the buyer "Sorry. Move on." and sell to the next guy. NFW I'd go through this hassle. There's always another buyer. And, this is non-FFL shit anyway. OP, if you can't make a decision based on what you've seen on him on the forum, move on.

 

[LuvDog]

I’ve bought and sold here and other forms where I’ve had to ship or be shipped items.

Always payment up front before anything even gets packaged or tracking number is provided. Why should I pay for a tracking number and then have the buyer back out?

I do my homework though... look through their history. Are they a solid contributing member? Have they bought and sold other items?
If your gut tells you they seem shady, then move on.

 

[Al-Jim19]

I’ve bought and sold here and other forms where I’ve had to ship or be shipped items.

Always payment up front before anything even gets packaged or tracking number is provided. Why should I pay for a tracking number and then have the buyer back out?

I do my homework though... look through their history. Are they a solid contributing member? Have they bought and sold other items?
If your gut tells you they seem shady, then move on.

Gut tells me the guy is good to go, but I wanted to ask around to be sure(er).

Would you guys use PayPal? Mail a check?

 

[LuvDog]

I prefer to use PP, just because it’s easy and fast. I’m finding a lot of sellers who don’t take PP though, so I’ll mail a check.

Ask the seller... lots of people like USPS money order. It provides some protection on both sides.

 

[drgrant]

I’ve bought and sold here and other forms where I’ve had to ship or be shipped items.

Always payment up front before anything even gets packaged or tracking number is provided. Why should I pay for a tracking number and then have the buyer back out?

I do my homework though... look through their history. Are they a solid contributing member? Have they bought and sold other items?
If your gut tells you they seem shady, then move on.

This.... a phone call, some vetting and due diligence goes a long way.

-Mike

 

[92G]

Zero chance I would pay first. Anything that's shipped is paid at the time the FFL receives it. Even here with NES feedback system, you still gotta do things the right way.

is that how you purchase from Buds or Grabagun? hey ship to my FFL and i'll pay when it arrives?

I'm a legit seller, and there's no way I'd put up with this. I'd tell the buyer "Sorry. Move on." and sell to the next guy. NFW I'd go through this hassle. There's always another buyer. And, this is non-FFL shit anyway. OP, if you can't make a decision based on what you've seen on him on the forum, move on.

firearm transfers across state lines require at least one FFL. further, many FFL's will not accept firearms from out-of-state non-licensees. in other words it has to come from an FFL. the scheme that I posted requires no extra work from anyone except a phone call to the FFL that is outbounding the firearm.

obviously if it's just parts that we're shipping no FFL would want to be involved in that and I can't blame them. I wouldn't go to an FFL to ship my DVD collection.

 

[TomMontana]

The lack of feedback ratings is worrisome. But I've sent more than $240 a few times to strangers on the internets with no feedback ratings for stuff and haven't been burned yet. The worst case scenario is that you lose $240. Are the savings worth the risks? It was worth it to me.

 

[FalArAk]

Gut tells me the guy is good to go, but I wanted to ask around to be sure(er).

Would you guys use PayPal? Mail a check?

Send a USPS money order so you can get his address,also if you get scammed is becomes Federal mail fraud.

If the guy won't accept a money order,bail.

I sent $5k with money orders once for a rifle..That was scary..I got the guys phone number and everything,but still scary as F.

 

[pinefd]

PayPal is always my first choice for something like this, if it's available. That way, you have full protection (unless using PayPal "Gift").


Frank

 

[ScottS]

firearm transfers across state lines require at least one FFL. further, many FFL's will not accept firearms from out-of-state non-licensees. in other words it has to come from an FFL. the scheme that I posted requires no extra work from anyone except a phone call to the FFL that is outbounding the firearm.

I've sold many guns on GunBroker, and right in the ad it says "Buyer's FFL must accept shipment from non-licensee, or don't bid or find another FFL." Never had a problem with a sale. There are far too many buyers out there to put up with any extra BS.

 

[Nick Fury]

I prefer to use PP, just because it’s easy and fast. I’m finding a lot of sellers who don’t take PP though, so I’ll mail a check.

Ask the seller... lots of people like USPS money order. It provides some protection on both sides.

Send a USPS money order so you can get his address,also if you get scammed is becomes Federal mail fraud.

If the guy won't accept a money order,bail.

I sent $5k with money orders once for a rifle..That was scary..I got the guys phone number and everything,but still scary as F.

USPS Money Orders suck ass. They don’t do shit but charge you like $50 to even verify if it was cashed and by whom. Other money orders play a similar game. That douchebag MichealJR of Quentin Defense GB fame cost me $15 just to find out it was never even deposited. Cash was king during that scam... lol

 

[jpm]

Use paypal GOODS option, not friends & family and pay with a credit card and eat the 3% surcharge as your insurance against getting ripped off.

Asking him to prove he shipped before you pay would never work with a legit seller since he's not an idiot. The only one who would send you 'proof' before you pay them is someone shipping you a box of rocks that weighs about the same as what you are buying. Then when you pay and get the box of rocks, he can say you're lying because look at the weight on my proof of shipment. Seen it done before.

 

[FalArAk]

USPS Money Orders suck ass. They don’t do shit but charge you like $50 to even verify if it was cashed and by whom. Other money orders play a similar game. That douchebag MichealJR of Quentin Defense GB fame cost me $15 just to find out it was never even deposited. Cash was king during that scam... lol

If it was cashed,then you can pursue mail fraud and have the Postal Inspector investigate,no ?

And if it wasn't cashed,you can start the paperwork to get your money back ?

Thankfully I never had to deal with that situation,but that's how I understood USPS worked.

 

[LuvDog]

USPS Money Orders suck ass. They don’t do shit but charge you like $50 to even verify if it was cashed and by whom. Other money orders play a similar game. That douchebag MichealJR of Quentin Defense GB fame cost me $15 just to find out it was never even deposited. Cash was king during that scam... lol

The famous QD group buy. I should take my QD builds out to shoot just to relive the memories.

 

[Davidk]

PayPal is always my first choice for something like this, if it's available. That way, you have full protection (unless using PayPal "Gift").


Frank

Paypal offers NO protection once they find out that it is firearm related. Worse, they will lock up your account for months

 

[pinefd]

Paypal offers NO protection once they find out that it is firearm related. Worse, they will lock up your account for months

Well THAT sucks! I use it all the time for everything else. Who da thunk it?!?

 

[jpm]

Paypal offers NO protection once they find out that it is firearm related. Worse, they will lock up your account for months

yes but they'll also lock up the other guy's account too.

And if you use a credit card as I described, you don't need paypal to help. You file a dispute with the CC and let them do the work. You'll almost always win and get your money credited back to your card. They'll take it from Paypal and you don't have to tell paypal it was gun related.

 

[Nick Fury]

If it was cashed,then you can pursue mail fraud and have the Postal Inspector investigate,no ?

Yeah kinda like that. In theory anyways. Purchase was for $125 on Ebay. Shortly after the neg reps started piling up. A quick look at other completed sales clearly spelled disaster. Yeah I got $75 back but what a fiasco it ended up being and this was a clear cut scam. I’d hate to see how a transaction that just differed in opinion ended up...

 

[Hardwired]

OP, not sure which board your talking about, cmpforum maybe? As was mentioned you can search prior posts and decide for legitimacy. If the user is an old timer and prior wts with no complaints then should be low risk. Send postal MO and confirm address. $200 for parts is comparatively small potatoes compared to ffl transfer arms.

And a talk over the phone is no guarantee there's not a scammer on the other end. Saw others fooled and scammed by this. Long time board reputation and standing go a long way. Last long gun I bought sight unseen from a legally blind gentleman. Delivered exactly as described.

Also when it comes to buying firearms online I always consult with eggspert former FBI director Jim Comey. Retired /fired now but you can reach him on Twittah these days.
FBI Director Apparently Doesn't Know How Buying a Gun on the Internet Works | OutdoorHub