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Best police sidearm
- Thread starter Kisspik002
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OfficerObie59
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I think the appropriate questions is the best police siadearm for what purpose and what benefit. Reliability? Uniformity of caliber? Will the officer ever need to carry it concealed? Capacity? All considerations to ask.
All around--I'd say the M&P. Why? Believe it or not, the interchangable grips.
While I like Glock, they're one size fits all. When my PD had .40 3 gen Smith and Wessons, a few officers with smaller hands actually had to carry the gun in 9mm because the tip of the .40 was too much. We found the problem was solved with the M&P due to the grips--and now everyone has the .45. Uniformity of ammo is important in the shit and streamlines procurement of ammo and accessories. The .45 also does not have the same kick as the .40 or 9mm for the more-recoil adverse officer.
The M&P .45 is not without its issues, chief among them it's sheer size. I sometimes find myself wanting my 3rd Gen back when it's jamming into my side when I'm sitting in the cruiser; the mag floor plates and pistol grip base have also torn a bunch of seat backs.
With that said, that's my opinion. YMMV.
All around--I'd say the M&P. Why? Believe it or not, the interchangable grips.
While I like Glock, they're one size fits all. When my PD had .40 3 gen Smith and Wessons, a few officers with smaller hands actually had to carry the gun in 9mm because the tip of the .40 was too much. We found the problem was solved with the M&P due to the grips--and now everyone has the .45. Uniformity of ammo is important in the shit and streamlines procurement of ammo and accessories. The .45 also does not have the same kick as the .40 or 9mm for the more-recoil adverse officer.
The M&P .45 is not without its issues, chief among them it's sheer size. I sometimes find myself wanting my 3rd Gen back when it's jamming into my side when I'm sitting in the cruiser; the mag floor plates and pistol grip base have also torn a bunch of seat backs.
With that said, that's my opinion. YMMV.
OfficerObie59
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On occasion, trigger discipline should be observed.
I think this guy was a cop for a living before he decided to make a full-time gig out of harassing Shooter McGavin on the links.
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TY43215
NES Member
A long time ago in a town not that far away,we were issued S&W 67 but were allowed to carry what we could qualify with as long as it was 38spl or 357MAG. I started with a very nice S&W 19 and when the 586 came out I got one. Carried that for some time. No matter what we carried, we were issued SuperVel ammo in either 38spl or 357MAG 158gr JSP.
I now prefer a Sig 226 in 357SIG. I no longer do that type of work but I still prefer the Sig. Even as a die hard revolver guy, the Sig is my choice.
To the poster that wants a G23, send me an e mail. I have a gen 3 23 for sale but I think it is gone. If the deal falls through, I would let you know.
TY43215
NES Member
If you want to shoot 357sig, let me know. I have ammo and a barrel for your 23. That would give you a perfect comparison of the 2 rounds in the same gun.
There are also concerns about service weapons with safeties.
One school of thought is not to have a service weapon with one as it could be on when the gun is drawn and not taken off, delaying the first shot and putting the officer in danger.
OfficerObie59
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That, and I think there is some concern--however illegitamate--about carrying with the hammer back. Keep in mind a duty gun is exposed and always getting banged around in the car, and the hammer would even potentially have to survive an officer's full body weight + perp if he's rolling around on the ground. Not too much of an issue with the Series 80's, but I think the hammer back makes some police leaders nervous.
FWIW, members of special units are following the lead of LAPD SWAT and moving to 1911's but I don't see it becoming a general issue duty weapon so long as options like the M&P are available in .45 ACP.
Really? It definitely wasn't about marketing or rounds fired in a gun fight.
It takes little training to get someone to perform an immediate action instinctively when you get a FTF. If the pistol is maintained properly, and quality duty ammunition is used the likelihood of a FTF is minimal at best. Most semi auto duty guns are actually cheaper than revolvers as well.
Average rounds fired is well... an average. I don't go hunting with only three shells because that's all that I think I will need based on the average number of shots fired in a season. What if the SHTF and some of the boys from Charlestown hit the bank with AKs? I might need ten rounds to deal with an ambush and ten more to stop the threat. Better to have and not need.
Revolvers have their place, but in my opinion as a back up. Times change and tactics/training evolves.
I carry a M&P 45 at work and off duty. Rugged, reliable, and accurate as hell. I have over 3,500 rounds through my personal gun and zero malfunctions attributed to the gun. Just my $.02.
fsusoldier
Army Veteran
I carry the M&P 40 (no safety) as my duty weapon and fire it on a regular basis. On my drill weekend a few months back we qualified with the M9 on the pop up range. I was dropping the targets without a problem, but then after a mag change I found that when I pulled the trigger, nothing happened. Sooo what did I do? Tap, rack , squeeze... nothing..... tap, rack, squeeze... nothing..... THEN my brain turned back on and said "Hey dip sh*t, this one has a safety".... A safety which I activated by racking over the top like I do on my duty weapon....
Granted, had I fired the M9 more than every 6-12 months for qual this may have not been an issue, but I am a fan of no mechanical safety on my duty weapon.
ochmude
Marine Veteran
1911's actually seem to be rather common in this area for duty carry, much to my surprise. The sheriff's office carries them, and a lot of PD's in this area don't supply a duty pistol, but rather provide a list of approved manufacturers and calibers. As such it seems a lot of cops go with 1911's.
I own several revolvers, including a Model 66 that I've competed with in IDPA. I'm not saying revolvers are inaccurate or impossible to shoot well. My point is that for a given level of training starting from scratch, an auto is easier to shoot. Also, the revo suffers from low ammo capacity and slow reloads. A sub 2 second shot to shot slide lock reload is easy on an auto. With a speedloader revolver, sub 3 seconds is world class.
He was 'the man'. Even though he killed a co-worker
(on accident, the gun just 'went off' kinda thing).And all the 'omghowbadarecopstoday' crowd would crap themselves if he walked into the room. Those guys were hard core like nothing else, if you've read his, and others of his generation of the Patrol, books it's amazing what they got away with.
edited for grievous spelling errors.
fencer
NES Member
My old Baretta 96D had a trigger that would foil anyone trying to shoot it. I gave it to a buddy one day while we were shooting. He 'pulled' the trigger three times and handed it back to me saying something was wrong with it. I had to explain the intricacies of firing a gun with a TWELVE lb trigger. Oh yes, the old INS guns had 12-14 lb triggers.
I am just gonna leave this right here... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLk1v5bSFPw.
Yes, because everyone is a professional shooter with decades of experience with revolvers ;/ (we need a 'not impressed' smiley)
I've carried a few different firearms issued by various departments that I have worked for. My least favorite was a glock 22. I'm not a big fan of the grip angle, nor of the 40 caliber round. Nothing against guys that like glock, they are simple and reliable, just not my cup of tea.
Best weapon for me was a sig 220 in 45. It had great presence and fit my hand perfectly. Talk about point and shoot! I've never had tighter groups with a handgun and love the da/sa action that makes follow up shots a breeze. I miss that gun, it's going to be my next handgun purchase once I have some spare cash.
Edit: iPhone posting is hard.
Best weapon for me was a sig 220 in 45. It had great presence and fit my hand perfectly. Talk about point and shoot! I've never had tighter groups with a handgun and love the da/sa action that makes follow up shots a breeze. I miss that gun, it's going to be my next handgun purchase once I have some spare cash.
Edit: iPhone posting is hard.
ochmude
Marine Veteran
I have never met anyone else besides me that finds a Glock to point naturally. It's actually the only handgun I've ever fired that I can draw and punch out with my eyes closed, then open my eyes and have have the sights perfectly aligned.
lel
NES Member
Same for me. My Glock 23 sights line up perfectly every time from the draw. Doesn't happen every time with my Sig 226 or M&P.
I've seen guys that love em' and guys that hate em'. It's awesome that you found the perfect gun that works for you. I had the same feeling with the sig 220.
I also noticed that my groups always pull right with the Glock, I can't but wonder if it's due to the odd trigger (safety.) I noted the same type of issue with the S&W M&P pistol, though not nearly as pronounced.
I'm sure that with enough time I would get used to the odd feel of those triggers, but alas I no longer have those guns and would rather invest in a pistol that would require minimal retraining on my part.
I wonder if the safety features in those triggers is my issue, or if the polymer grip angles are the main culprit? (Perhaps I'm just lucky with the Sig, and simply a poor shot
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
)
S&W Model 28 357 Highway Patrolman.
or a S&W Model 13, another classic.
Kisspik002
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I see a lot of departments switching over to the .45 over the 40 or 9. The department I work for is changing from glock 22's to M&P .45's
Well, I guess I'm the 2nd person. That's more or less what happens to me, depending on model. They just "drop right into the slot". Glocks and 1911s aren't too bad, despite the difference in grip angles; M&P and XD aren't too bad.. However... If I pick up a newer HK (P3000, HK45, etc) I end up pointing the effing thing at the ground and I have to actually roll my wrists backwards a little to bring up the front.
-Mike
ochmude
Marine Veteran
That's EXACTLY the same issue I have with my P2000. I'm not sure if it's the grip angle or perhaps how the weight is balanced in the hand, but it just naturally points low for me.
BattleSnail
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I recently acquired a glock 30 and was amazed at how the sights just lined right up for me when I raised it up...none of my other pistols point so naturally like that for me.it's weird.
The newest trend has dept.'s switching away from 45 and 40 and going back to 9mm. Within the last 6 months or so there has been in increase in this. St Paul MN, Texas DPS, Wichita Kansas, La sheriffs , Columbia MI, just to name a few. With modern ammunition there is marginal difference between the calibers as far as performance, however the 9MM holds more round, recoils less and is easier to train large numbers of people with. My agency is keeping an open mind about switching back to 9mm from 40. 45 was also mentioned, but few officers showed any interest in this with the biggest reason being capacity and weight. We are allowed to carry 1911's for details etc but only three out of 60 do,even the guys from our place who are on the regional swat team want nothing o do with the 1911 or any pistol that holds less then 10 rounds.YMMV
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