Bass Pro wouldn't sell me a gun today UPDATE Post 56

[PappyM3]

Not to derail the thread, but does the Commonwealth not send you a new LTC when you change your address? I haven't had this issue come up yet.

They don't, because the LTC is issued by the town from which you applied.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Not to derail the thread, but does the Commonwealth not send you a new LTC when you change your address? I haven't had this issue come up yet.

Read Post # 24.

They don't, because the LTC is issued by the town from which you applied.

This has nothing to do with it. It just is an administrative policy at the state level.

 

[mrjones]

Gotcha. I had mis-remembered the strict requirement to keep your LTC address current and hallucinated that it would mean that you would receive an updated card upon changing your address. But this is Massachusetts, so I'm not surprised that the opposite is true.

 

[PappyM3]

This has nothing to do with it. It just is an administrative policy at the state level.

Thanks for the correction. I was under the impression that it was because the original town essentially controlled one's LTC.

 

[PrimusTactical]

I thought they don't issue you a new LTC because when you move you fall under a new issuing authority. So they can't just assume that a new town would agree with what your license states. For example, you live in town A and they issue you a LTC unrestricted and you move to Town B where they always put restrictions, then when you move your supposed to notify Town B and they decide your license restrictions? Just like when you renew you would then renew in Town B and they can decide how to issue the license or what hoops you have to jump through. Is that wrong?

 

[PappyM3]

I thought they don't issue you a new LTC because when you move you fall under a new issuing authority. So they can't just assume that a new town would agree with what your license states. For example, you live in town A and they issue you a LTC unrestricted and you move to Town B where they always put restrictions, then when you move your supposed to notify Town B and they decide your license restrictions? Just like when you renew you would then renew in Town B and they can decide how to issue the license or what hoops you have to jump through. Is that wrong?

When you move, town B has no say in your current LTC's restrictions. When you go to renew, that's when the new town has a say. Notifying the new Chief is just that, a notification so they can keep tabs on you like a pedophile

 

[PrimusTactical]

When you move, town B has no say in your current LTC's restrictions. When you go to renew, that's when the new town has a say. Notifying the new Chief is just that, a notification so they can keep tabs on you like a pedophile

Thanks for the clarification. Yea that's what I meant, when you renew they have a say in your license. I don't think they can just decide that your LTC is void? Can they? I assume they still have the right to pull it if you do something stupid, but cant jsut change it because of policy.

 

[Quiet]

No, my understanding is the issuing town owns you until you renew.

 

[PrimusTactical]

No, my understanding is the issuing town owns you until you renew.

Does that apply for violations too? Like say something happens and you are charged or w/e and they want to pull your license, the old town does that or the new one? Haven't seen it yet, just curious how that works.

 

[Quiet]

Yes, as far as I've heard. They own you just as if you lived there.

 

[KBCraig]

Per the instructions on the 4473, the FFL must make sure that the address you (the buyer) put on the 4473 matches what ever .gov issued, photo identification you give them. What is in MIRCS has absolutely nothing to do with the 4473. If your address has changed, put a updated on on a label on your LTC, it's that simple.

I don't blame them for refusing the sale, I would have (and have in he past) done the same thing. It's not worth loosing a FFL over.

I believe the Massachusetts FRB records fall under "another valid government issued document".

Both are correct.

In Free America, there are no licenses or permits to purchase, and gun dealers aren't electronically hooked into a massive state database with all your info.

In free states, if your .gov photo ID doesn't match what you fill in on the 4473, you have to satisfy the dealer with utility bills, etc., or no sale.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Gotcha. I had mis-remembered the strict requirement to keep your LTC address current and hallucinated that it would mean that you would receive an updated card upon changing your address. But this is Massachusetts, so I'm not surprised that the opposite is true.

What is worse is that if someone changes name (married, divorced or just get court to allow a name change), your DL and LTC will keep the "old" name until expiration. Carrying around a copy of your marriage certificate or court papers is an even bigger PITA!

Yes, the system is F'd up!

No, my understanding is the issuing town owns you until you renew.

Correct. They are the ONLY ones that can change restriction or even suspend/revoke your LTC. Once it naturally expires your new town owns you but not until that time.

 

[Malkin]

Update!! No .22 ammo just was there. Guy told me there was a 10 box limit!!

 

[cbrxx]

Update!! No .22 ammo just was there. Guy told me there was a 10 box limit!!

I saw the OP mentioned 22lr bricks, but I was there at around 8pm last night , so not long after him, and there were no bricks, just some 50rnd boxes of the .22lr.
Grabbed 10 of them, and a box of the .243 projectiles I need. Had to convince the dumb a$$ cashier that they were not really ammo, so should not be considered an 11th box.

They did have some 9mm brass, and a dozen or so assorted cans of powders.

 

[dreadedtrash]

I was there at about 1pm yesterday. People were buying them as fast as they could put them on the shelves.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Forum Runner. I miss the NES app.

 

[Nicole]

Just to add another twist - I had licenses issued in Town A. I moved to Town B, which was generally known as green and friendly. For a number of reasons, I wanted my licenses to reflect my address in Town B and I had several years left before they expired. So I sent in my $$$ to Town B and asked for a renewal. They REFUSED to process the renewal, despite me articulating valid concerns, including the exact scenario the OP described. They said they didn't care what my reasons were, they weren't processing my renewal early and I would just have to wait several years, tough luck if that ended up causing me problems.

I didn't even bother talking to them when my name changed and pretty much simply abandoned the idea of buying a gun other than through Adam at that point.

Reason 723,235 we left.....

 

[dreadedtrash]

Thanks everyone for confirming that I was not in the wrong. I still have yet to hear back from the manager that I sent an email to yesterday. I am going to give him another day then I am going to get a hold of someone at corporate. I am sure that will likely get me no where but it is worth a shot. The funny to me thing is that I only moved about 3 blocks away. Still in the same town.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Forum Runner. I miss the NES app.

 

[WPDC13]

Had the same issue at BPS a few years back. I was living on the Cape and renting so I was pretty much moving every year or half year (seasonal rentals). Job didnt pay even close to enough to buy which I am grateful for now. I had to run out and grab my registration which luckily I had recently renewed so it had the current address. Thought it was BS as well and never had an issue anywhere else buying a gun. I understand it more after I read the post about the FFL, but it is the ONLY place it has ever been an issue....

 

[Pilot172]

Different address on my LTC - no problem buying guns at Four Seasons or Collectors.

 

[BostonFJ40]

Why even have an address on the license?

 

[Nicole]

Why even have an address on the license?

Why even have a license?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Just to add another twist - I had licenses issued in Town A. I moved to Town B, which was generally known as green and friendly. For a number of reasons, I wanted my licenses to reflect my address in Town B and I had several years left before they expired. So I sent in my $$$ to Town B and asked for a renewal. They REFUSED to process the renewal, despite me articulating valid concerns, including the exact scenario the OP described. They said they didn't care what my reasons were, they weren't processing my renewal early and I would just have to wait several years, tough luck if that ended up causing me problems.

I didn't even bother talking to them when my name changed and pretty much simply abandoned the idea of buying a gun other than through Adam at that point.

Reason 723,235 we left.....

They cannot issue an early renewal unless the agency that "owns" your license expires it early, and any attempt so will be rejected by the FRB.

But, since you filed a change of address, it is correct in the MIRCS system and I expect a duplicate issued by Town A would bear your new, correct, Town B address.

Although a MA drivers license is not routinely reprinted after a change of address, you can order a duplicate on-line for $25 and it will reflect the new address.

But, I'd guess you get a decent discount at Adam's shop.

 

[Nicole]

They cannot issue an early renewal unless the agency that "owns" your license expires it early, and any attempt so will be rejected by the FRB.

But, since you filed a change of address, it is correct in the MIRCS system and I expect a duplicate issued by Town A would bear your new, correct, Town B address.

Although a MA drivers license is not routinely reprinted after a change of address, you can order a duplicate on-line for $25 and it will reflect the new address.

But, I'd guess you get a decent discount at Adam's shop.

Huh. Did not know that. But I don't think they know that either. I did speak with them and they told me, repeatedly, that they flat out would not process it. Not that processing it wasn't possible, or that FRB would reject it, but just that they wouldn't do it. Had they told me it was FRB idiocy, they would have got rid of me much faster and with less friction.

Never had an issue with the RMV. I had licenses reissued when necessary, even the name change was smooth as silk. You have to wait FOREVER, but once they get you to the counter, no worries.

 

[ClickBoom]

Can you call ahead of time and have everything checked out, you know save a trip and disappointment? I would hate for this to happen to me when I get my new LTC after waiting 5 plus months.

Tim

 

[JRCustomCar]

I've moved twice since my ltc was issued. I've needed a backup form of id when purchasing that has a current address on it. Most recently, I went through a good friend to transfer a couple glocks into MA and he's known me for years and still asked to see something with my name on it and where I currently reside. I was lucky because while my LTC had one address, my drivers license has another, but my registration for my car was in the glovebox outside with my new updated address. So I would say they were right in asking for something with your current address on it. Then again, I have an old paper laminated ltc that's nearly expired...so I don't have a PIN

 

[dreadedtrash]

This is the email that I got back from them today

Hi dreadedtrash,

My name is Bob and I reviewed your email and the issue that you ran into at the gun counter. From what I understand, the address you entered on the 4473 that you filled out was your new address. Your LTC and your driver’s license both showed your old address. As a result we were unable to transfer possession of a firearm to you. I can understand that this is a frustrating situation, but the ATF is very clear about the transfer of firearms.

According to the instructions for line 20B on the Federal Form 4473 that you filled out, you must provide a Government issued document with the correct current address on it (see below)

Federal 4473 Requirements
If the transferee's picture ID address does not match the address entered on form 4473, then you must obtain from the transferee:
· Another valid, government-issued document showing the transferee’s residence address. This alternate documentation
should be recorded in question 20.b, with issuing authority and type of identification presented. Do not take a copy of the
document. Simply write down the document issuing authority and type in 20.b. It must be a government issued document.
This is required for any firearm transaction either long gun or handgun.

Regardless of whether the 4473 is submitted electronically or via telephone the same rules apply. When a background check is called in on the phone, the associate simply reads off the data on the 4473. If the transfer of ownership were allowed to take place with two different addresses on record, an ATF audit would result in a significant error and jeopardize the good standing of our Federal Firearms License.

I did check on the MA RMV website and there is a whole section dedicated to change of address. I’m not sure if this will result in an updated registration but it’s a good starting point.

https://secure.rmv.state.ma.us/ChangeOfAddress/Intro.aspx

Once you have a Government issued document listing your current address we would be happy to process your firearms purchase.

Thank you for your inquiry,

Bob Pope
Assistant Store Manager
Foxborough, MA
508-216-2000

This was my response

Bob,

Thank you for getting back to me and taking the time to research the problem that I am having. I assure you that I have visited the RMV website and have changed my address with them. For the 4473 you are correct and I did put my new address in to the laptop as required by law. The 4473 was filled out correctly up until the point I stopped because I was told I could not make the purchase. The problem with the great state of Massachusetts is that they don’t send you anything new once you change your address. However, if my fingerprint was scanned in to the MIRCS system that would have brought up my information from the state maintained database. Would that not be better than an easily faked drivers license? All of my info was updated with the state weeks ago and would show my new address. Would that not be considered " Another valid, government-issued document showing the transferee’s residence address"?

I completely understand and respect that you want to stay on everyone’s good side and not risk your FFL. I am just looking for a resolution. Would a hand written label on the back of my drivers license be considered a government issued document? That is what they tell you to do when you change your address for both your car registration and drivers license. I would think that before your people submit the 4473 form they would pull someone up in MIRCS and verify the information on the 4473 matches what the state has. So let me know if you are willing to either take the government database as the information that you need or if I should slap a hand written label on my drivers license. At this point I don’t want to go down there again seeing as how my last trip was an hour and a half for nothing.

Thanks

dreadedtrash

 

[Dench]

Regardless of whether the 4473 is submitted electronically or via telephone the same rules apply. When a background check is called in on the phone, the associate simply reads off the data on the 4473. If the transfer of ownership were allowed to take place with two different addresses on record, an ATF audit would result in a significant error and jeopardize the good standing of our Federal Firearms License.

This is wrong. The address is never read over the phone.

I don't even think the NICs transaction is typical saved for long anyway. The form is, which will be audited every year or so.

 

[Gillham]

+1 Address isn't read over the phone. But it sounds like they're caught in a catch 22. The 4473 says confirm on a second form of Gov't issued documentation and MA doesn't give you a second form of ID.

Like you already mentioned - Will BPS use MIRCS to verify your address.

 

[Kevlar]

Pursuant to MA regulations, the FFL is required to complete the MIRCS portion of the of the transaction (thereby confirming the name, address, license validity etc.) prior to completing the NICS check...

10.06:Electronic Transmission of Gun Transactions Records

(1) If a purchaser holds a license issued via MIRCS, the gun dealer shall proceed with a gun transaction as follows:

(a) The gun dealer shall submit via MIRCS the following required information:​

1. the license number as displayed on the purchaser’s license to carry or firearms identification card; and

2. the licensing authority that issued the license as displayed on the purchaser’s license to carry or firearms identification card; and

3. the type of gun being purchased; and

4. identification as either a large capacity weapon or a non-large capacity weapon, as defined in M.G.L. c. 140, § 121.​

(b) If MIRCS displays a message that a license is “on hold” the gun dealer shall not proceed with the gun transaction and shall instruct the purchaser to contact the purchaser’s licensing authority;

(c) The gun dealer shall verify identity of purchaser and validity of license as follows:​

1. by use of positive identification device; or if not available

2. by use of personal identification number.​

a. in the event that the purchaser’s identity and the validity of his/her license cannot be ascertained through the use of a positive identification device or personal identification number, the gun dealer shall contact the criminal history systems board.

b. the criminal history systems board shall expeditiously notify the gun dealer on how to proceed with the transaction.​

(d) Upon verification, the gun dealer shall review the accuracy of the gun dealer’s information as displayed on MIRCS and proceed with entering the purchaser’s address, demographics, and personal attributes via MIRCS.

(e) After the purchaser’s information has been completed, the gun dealer shall enter the make, model, serial number, caliber, barrel length, and gun surface finish for the gun transaction. After the gun information has been entered, the gun dealer shall contact the national instant check system...​

http://www.mass.gov/eopss/docs/chsb/firearms/803-cmr-gun-transaction-recording-by-dealers.pdf

 

[Dench]

Pursuant to MA regulations, the FFL is required to complete the MIRCS portion of the of the transaction (thereby confirming the name, address, license validity etc.) prior to completing the NICS check...



http://www.mass.gov/eopss/docs/chsb/firearms/803-cmr-gun-transaction-recording-by-dealers.pdf

I've never seen that done ever in MA.