Attorney discount for NRA members?

[Xak]

Does anyone know if I can get a discount for a decent firearms attorney if I am an NRA member? Their website is a mess and I can't find anything there. I had heard that GOAL members got discounts from someone here, but alas, I am not a GOAL member.

I am looking for legal advice in MA. A free initial consultation would be nice (like the one I found in NH) but not if it's at the expense of the quality of advice. I'm aware it may cost me, but being both a paramedic, a home owner, and a wedding on the horizon at the same time, I am hoping to minimize the hit to my wallet while still getting sound advice.

I'm aware there are a couple attorneys here on the forum. If anyone would like to chime in either private message or public it would be much appreciated.

 

[Fooped]

IANAL, but become a GOAL member anyways! As a gun owner in Mass, it's the best 30.00 you can spend as they're pretty much the only folks completely on our side in this state.

Just my two cents.

 

[DR]

Does anyone know if I can get a discount for a decent firearms attorney if I am an NRA member? Their website is a mess and I can't find anything there. I had heard that GOAL members got discounts from someone here, but alas, I am not a GOAL member.

I am looking for legal advice in MA. A free initial consultation would be nice (like the one I found in NH) but not if it's at the expense of the quality of advice. I'm aware it may cost me, but being both a paramedic, a home owner, and a wedding on the horizon at the same time, I am hoping to minimize the hit to my wallet while still getting sound advice.

I'm aware there are a couple attorneys here on the forum. If anyone would like to chime in either private message or public it would be much appreciated.

I know of at least one Mass firearms attorney who offers free initial consultations...

...for GOAL members.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Xak, you really need to join GOAL. Likewise since you conviction is in NH, you need a NH attorney to fix that, not a MA attorney.

That's probably a lot easier route to follow than MA where only some convictions can be set aside by appeal . . . but still can be used wrt "suitability".

 

[Xak]

Well, I plan on joining GOAL, but it would be kind of dishonest to join now and expect to be extended benefits for what has happened before I was a member, wouldn't it?

 

[Xak]

Xak, you really need to join GOAL. Likewise since you conviction is in NH, you need a NH attorney to fix that, not a MA attorney.

That's probably a lot easier route to follow than MA where only some convictions can be set aside by appeal . . . but still can be used wrt "suitability".

Well, there is one MA issue I need to potentially address as well, and in order to do that I need to "see the disposition of the docket" (whatever that means) concerning a potentially DQ misdemeanor that was CWOF then dismissed 12 years ago. I have a feeling I would get that far and find myself over my head in legal jargon and be back to square one. The licensing officer said getting the NH misdemeanor expunged should be good enough to finally renew my LTC and doesn't think the state will DQ me on the MA misdemeanor. But, I need to know definitively where I stand, the licensing officer means well, but has been wrong in the past.

The NH issue is a simple case of getting a 1989 NH misdemeanor annulled or expunged. The licensing officer told me how I could do it on my own w/o spending $ on an attorney, I am getting a free initial consultation from a NH firearms attorney to see if it really is that simple.

 

[Len-2A Training]

To "see the disposition" in the docket and get copies, just stop by the courthouse where this took place during their business hours, ask for the file and they can even make copies for you if needed. You may need their help in "translating" the gibberish that sometimes gets scribbled on the forms. The system (if old) is really sub-professional IMNSHO and the clerks are good at helping folks out.

Anyone (literally) can walk into the courthouse and pull the file. If you have a copy you can submit it with your LTC app and save your PD the time and aggravation in trying to understand the issue as well (this may or may not be a good idea depending on what's on it).

 

[Xak]

That sounds easy enough.

The paperwork the licensing officer gave me says you appeared at such and such district court, NH for the charge of blah blah blah. According to their records you plead guilty, finding: guilty and fined such and such $ (which is why I need to get it annulled).

The MA case says: You appeared at such and such district court for such and such offense, case dismissed and noted.

This is the charge I thought was "sealed" that the judge had said I would still have a clean record. The licensing officer said it was CWOF and dismissed. Is it possible the judge did more than just seal it? (yes, I know there is no such thing as a sealed record when it comes to firearms)

Perhaps that's why I was able to get a LTC in the first place and the licensing officer thinks I only have to worry about the NH charge even though both the NH and the MA charge are DQ's.

You can see why I may need some legal advice. Or do you think it's possible to figure out on my own with a bit of reading and persistence?

 

[Cross-X]

Figure it out on your own, without any legal advice?

For you, since you are on the wrong track, I'd say no.

Darius Arbabi
massgunlaw.com

 

[Xak]

Figure it out on your own, without any legal advice?

For you, since you are on the wrong track, I'd say no.

Darius Arbabi
massgunlaw.com

LOL!!!!

 

[Lugnut]

LOL!!!!

What's so funny? Did I miss something?

 

[Len-2A Training]

At least get copies of the documentation. Then take it to a lawyer!

 

[Xak]

What's so funny? Did I miss something?

Here I am thinking I'm getting a grasp of what's going on and turns out I may be way off. Just struck me funny is all. Must be all the stress.

 

[Xak]

At least get copies of the documentation. Then take it to a lawyer!

Yes, I have copies of the docs the licensing officer gave me and I'll get a copy of the MA misdemeanor file before I meet with an attorney.

 

[depicts]

I won't try to explain better than Cross X, but the idea of "expungment" might be part of it.



I think you owe it to yourself to get a good attorney. My case went back over 30 years and took a lot of my own time finding records at District Court and getting letters and documents. Then I paid about $1400 in lawyers fees and filing charges and document reproduction, as well as a court appearance by my attorney.

Best money I ever spent. I am glad I cleared up a stupid incident I was involved in at age 19. I'd rather have that cleared up than go on a honeymoon, it's made my life so much easier since I got that decision in court.

 

[Xak]

Right, seems the more I try and do this stuff all on my own the more a mess I make of it and the more confused I get at the same time. But, how the heck did you get away with just $1400 in lawyers fees? Many of the nightmare stories (which is exactly what this is turning in to) the people end up paying many thousands of dollars.

Oh, BTW, thank you all for showing interest in my dilemma and taking the time to ponder it and reply. I know people say that constantly, but it really is a good feeling to know there are some people out there that give a &%$*& about others experiencing rough waters. Like someone in the crowd throws you a life preserver, even if you don't catch it and drown anyway at least someone cared to try and the others around them were like "poor guy, I feel for him" as opposed to simply being alone and drowning.

...yes it's late and I get sentimental when I have a couple drinks... but really thanx for all your advice.

 

[Len-2A Training]

DUI was a "minor offense" in MA until a certain date, after which it became a "trip point" (penalty increase) to a lifetime DQ for a LTC.

That is what his incident sounds like.

 

[M1911]

A free initial consultation would be nice (like the one I found in NH) but not if it's at the expense of the quality of advice.

Most lawyers I've spoken to give a free initial consultation. You explain the problem to them, they explain what they think the best course of action would be and how much it might cost.

 

[Mr Weebles]

Most lawyers I've spoken to give a free initial consultation. You explain the problem to them, they explain what they think the best course of action would be and how much it might cost.

+1.

Most attorneys are reasonable folks and will do this (when they're not busy worshipping Satan and killing puppies, that is). Keep in mind, though, that if an attorney says it's gonna cost $2,000 (for example) that it's an estimate. It could get more expensive. They don't work for free, nor should they.

My attorney (not a gun guy) gives me a best estimate when I need stuff done and is usually close to the number given. On a couple of occasions he's been more expensive but in the long run I'd rather get competent legal representation than go "on the cheap."

There's a reason law school is expensive ...

 

[Mr Weebles]

One more thing ...

If it's a firearms issue, get an attorney with experience in that area. They know that arena and can probably get it done more efficiently and less expensively than the guy who handled your will or real estate transaction.

My lawyer is incredibly versed in real estate and family law but doesn't know jack shit about guns.

 

[depicts]

Crap, maybe I should just shut up while the going is good.

I contacted: http://www.edwardgeorgeassociates.com/index.jsp

and Ed George had one of his associates, Karen McNutt handle my case. Many people here will recognize Karen's name, she is well known in GOAL and other Pro Gun activities. She was once a candidate for Attorney General in Massachusetts.

LenS has said he knows Karen. Maybe he can tell you how to get in touch with her, I can only find one reference in GOOGLE. I know she retired from the Natl Guard Adjutant Generals office this past year. She may have retired from practicing law.

I'm sure Cross X or others could handle the case as well. I can't guarantee prices, but when I went to Ed George almost ten years ago, he offered a 50%discount on his hourly fee for GOAL members.

As I said, I did a lot of the legwork myself, at Karen's direction.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Ed George represented Sharon F&G when the PD shut the outdoor ranges down for 2 years (for an incident that happened at Massapoag Sportsmen's Club, ~2 miles away). It cost SF&G ~$15K and 2 years to get re-opened. I attended at least one meeting with Ed George and the Selectmen and I was NOT impressed with his representation. I like Ed as a person, but I personally would not put him high on my list of gun attorneys based on that experience.

I've known Karen MacNutt (please note spelling, especially if you are trying to Google her name) for 31 years. I like and respect Karen, have discussed MGL with her numerous times, attended a seminar she gave at MIT many years ago, etc. Her direct contact info is below:

Karen MacNutt, Esq.
10 Mazzeo Dr., Ste.211
P.O. Box 458
Randolph, MA 02368
(781) 963-6337

I won't give out her Email as I'm not convinced that she reads it often enough for that to be useful info. When I need to reach her, I call her. She's not a "computer person".

Luckily, I have never needed legal advice/representation personally so I have never used any attorney for such matters. That said, I know who the first few attorneys are that I would call.

 

[dwarven1]

Xak, let me pipe in here with a couple of things.

1 - this won't help you now, but it may help someone else reading this. When I had an incident, many years ago and far away, after the charges were dropped I immediately had my lawyer move to get the record expunged. In NJ, that means that the PD is supposed to tear up it's arrest records and trashcan them. The only record is in the FBI's database (or so it was explained to me at the time), and it can only be accessed if I get arrested... or the People's Republik of MA wants to investigate me. So the lesson is: Take care of things immediately rather than waiting for them to bite you in the butt.

2 - CALL A LAWYER. Scrivener. Cross-X. jcohen. I don't post phone numbers, but you can get Cross-x's from his website massgunlaw.com, you can get Scrivener's number from his ad in the Outdoor Message. Or PM me and I'll gladly give them to you. But for G-d's sake, get a pro involved in your case ASAP. Yes, it might be expensive. But if you don't... think of all the money you could save over the rest of your life if you can't buy guns.

 

[Xak]

Recieved! I will asap this week and get the ball rolling. Thank you guys so much.

 

[depicts]

LenS, thanks for your information about Karen.

Ed George handled a club issue in Hamilton, MA, that also took a long time, so you may be right. It was expensive too. I think maybe you two guys are a little bit the same both of you are just (now don't get offended) a little abrasive. I can see where you might not click with him.

Like I said, I went to Ed based on what the president of the Hamilton gun club told me, and Ed got me Karen. Worked out good for me, she's great, and my Police Chief couldn't believe a women could know so much about gun law.

 

[M1911]

I spoke with Cross-X for advice on a firearms issue and would do so again. His fee was very reasonable.

 

[rscalzo]

In NJ, that means that the PD is supposed to tear up it's arrest records and trashcan them. The only record is in the FBI's database

Not quite true. The records are not destroyed but sealed and not available to anyone without a subpoena. As far as our database would show, 6the records did not exist. But as far as a background investigation would go for a law enforcement job, they were available when the prints were sent in by the applicant.

I processed a lot of expungements through my office. They are not hard to file. They must be sent into the town of jurisdiction, the state's Criminal Identification Division and the Federal govt. While most did go through a lawyer, some did not. The approval was pretty much a given except for anything high profile. I never remember objecting to any of the requests.

The biggest problem I had was that the submitter never followed up with the final approvals needed for me to process the expungement. This was the case for both the lawyer and personal filings.

 

[dwarven1]

I followed up. I have the paperwork to prove it, too.

And was I ever pissed to learn that MA even looks at expunged records for LTCs. What's the point if they're going to do that crap anyway?

Weird thing, though... when I went for my renewal I put down the whole story on the application (complete with 4 part harmony) and Officer Obie put in the computer as "NO", I'd never appeared as a defendant. He'd run my record the week before when I made the appt with him. Go figure. I can't.

 

[Len-2A Training]

LenS, thanks for your information about Karen.

Ed George handled a club issue in Hamilton, MA, that also took a long time, so you may be right. It was expensive too. I think maybe you two guys are a little bit the same both of you are just (now don't get offended) a little abrasive. I can see where you might not click with him.

A little explanation is in order here:

- I was a member of both the PD (Special PO) and the BOD of SF&G when this incident happened. I never discussed this issue with the chief (who is now deceased).

- The club president contacted GOAL and they recommended Ed George. All interactions with Ed George were done between Ed and the club president. I was never present.

- The only time I may have spoken with Ed about this affair (and I don't recall if I did or not) was after we left the Selectmen's meeting and were all walking together to our cars.

So regardless of whether I (or Ed) have abrasive personalities or not, Ed and I never had any disagreements about what went on . . . at least not directly. I have never discussed this case with him since that time either.

My objections to Ed as a gun attorney, based on this one case are:

- SF&G was NOT party to the incident. The club was shut-down as a means of "revenge" by a particular police chief (not the one currently in that position).

- An aggressive attorney would have challenged the Selectmen's authority to shut down a club where no involvement occurred. Especially after a MA State Police ballistics expert (no idea who) visited the club and apparently wrote a report (never saw it) stating that the state has no standard for ranges, but that he found SF&G outdoor range to be more than adequate fwrt safety by any reasonable standard. [Either the PD or Selectmen had the MA State Police check the range, it wasn't done by the club.]

- The club was poor and had no reserve account, barely making ends meet each year. The cost of renovations to get the Selectmen's blessing was >$15K which had to be funded by voluntary bonds bought by the club members (with no interest paid, redeemed by drawing over x years as money became available to pay them back).

- We could have accomplished the same result without lawyer fees. Simply bending over and grabbing our ankles (BOHICA) . . . and then doing whatever the Selectmen came up with to satisfy their need for revenge.

- The club president, other officers and the BOD all concluded that we weren't "well represented".

BTW, I saw Ed as a "big teddy bear" who just rolled over on any/all demands by the town without question or protest. I did not see him as aggressive at all. [Based on listening to him speak on our behalf at this one Selectmen's meeting.]

Subsequently I have "passed the time of day" with Ed numerous times at GOAL events. I find him to be a likable guy, just NOT aggressive enough in my mind to tackle gun issues for my liking.

Let's just say that today I know a few attorneys on this forum who would have reacted very differently to the extortion heaped on that club. FWIW, this probably happened before most of these attorneys graduated law school.

 

[depicts]

Thanks Len, I appreciate your opinion. It makes me doubly glad Karen MacNutt handled my problem.