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ATF issues rule change proposal regarding pistol braces
- Thread starter DispositionMatrix
- Start date
Mesatchornug
NES Member
I think there's a date for a date...
DispositionMatrix
NES Member
ATF has submitted a supporting statement for changing the Form 1 to accommodate a limited amnesty and waiving of the $200 tax for when people are forced to NFA register, destroy, or surrender their firearms to the government once the ATF declares most braced pistols to be SBRs in December.
Justification for OMB 1140-0011 (ATF F 5320.1) 8.31.2022 - OMB 1140-0011
In case they try to hide that:
https://archive.ph/o9tLY
This is the first insight we have as to how bad it is going to be.
Original 2021R-08, “Factoring Criteria for Firearms with Attached ‘Stabilizing Braces’” .pdf
https://www.atf.gov/file/154871/download
ATF page containing 2021R-08:
Factoring Criteria for Firearms with Attached “Stabilizing Braces” | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
2021R-08 in the Federal Register:
Federal Register :: Request Access
Schedule:
Regulations.gov
Justification for OMB 1140-0011 (ATF F 5320.1) 8.31.2022 - OMB 1140-0011
In case they try to hide that:
https://archive.ph/o9tLY
This is the first insight we have as to how bad it is going to be.
Original 2021R-08, “Factoring Criteria for Firearms with Attached ‘Stabilizing Braces’” .pdf
https://www.atf.gov/file/154871/download
ATF page containing 2021R-08:
Factoring Criteria for Firearms with Attached “Stabilizing Braces” | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
2021R-08 in the Federal Register:
Federal Register :: Request Access
Schedule:
Regulations.gov
Not a surprise, after Bruen they know they would get f***ed in court if they demanded surrender or demanded the tax be paid..... enough evidence basically holds ATF culpable for "creating" the AR pistol thing to begin with.. they were trying to skinflint on hiring more NFA examiners at the time because they were getting swamped with SBR applications.... so it's pretty obvious they told some guy well we have to expand the pistol brace thing and then basically allow a bypass for this stupid law while we figure something else out.... of course a couple regime changes and a senile leftist has "people" telling the ATF to crank up enforcement. The political bs WRT the ATF is best resembles something from the byzantine empire.
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So, if you do an amnesty with a braced gun, are the brace and the gun married, or once it's an SBR can you upgrade to a real stock?
Boghog1
NES Member
sounds like it, or don't bother to register it and since it is a felony add the stock and a giggle switch.
Once the pistol is "registered" in the NFA registry, does it then fall under the other controls?
An approved 5320.20 for interstate travel?
A $200 transfer tax if you decide to sell it?
Notice that the ATF hasn't addressed these issues (to my knowledge) in anything they've divulged yet to the public.
You cannot give amnesty for something that was previously not a crime. These braces have been legal for years.
This is NOT like the amnesty that was given to register machineguns, which were taxed via congress in 1934 via the NFA.
Machineguns that were illegally ( not tax paid) brought back by soldiers returning from wars after 1934 or manufactured after 1934 and were in possession of individuals and not in the registry were "contraband" and the amnesty in that case allowed them to become legally transferrable guns. Same for the amnesty in 1986 when new manufacture of machineguns for civilian sale became prohibited.
An approved 5320.20 for interstate travel?
A $200 transfer tax if you decide to sell it?
Notice that the ATF hasn't addressed these issues (to my knowledge) in anything they've divulged yet to the public.
You cannot give amnesty for something that was previously not a crime. These braces have been legal for years.
This is NOT like the amnesty that was given to register machineguns, which were taxed via congress in 1934 via the NFA.
Machineguns that were illegally ( not tax paid) brought back by soldiers returning from wars after 1934 or manufactured after 1934 and were in possession of individuals and not in the registry were "contraband" and the amnesty in that case allowed them to become legally transferrable guns. Same for the amnesty in 1986 when new manufacture of machineguns for civilian sale became prohibited.
Remember when everyone was saying things like:
“Bump stocks are stupid anyways so who cares.”
Who could have thought the ATF wouldn’t stop there.
News flash to all the idiots who held the above opinion: It won’t stop with pistol braces either unless you cucks understand that anything, no matter how much you don’t personally care about (like bump stocks), is a SIGNIFICANT matter that needs fighting for.
If you haven’t been paying attention, they’re currently also going after FRT’s, binary triggers, receivers (both complete and 80%), and worse, any and all firearm components.
“Bump stocks are stupid anyways so who cares.”
Who could have thought the ATF wouldn’t stop there.
News flash to all the idiots who held the above opinion: It won’t stop with pistol braces either unless you cucks understand that anything, no matter how much you don’t personally care about (like bump stocks), is a SIGNIFICANT matter that needs fighting for.
If you haven’t been paying attention, they’re currently also going after FRT’s, binary triggers, receivers (both complete and 80%), and worse, any and all firearm components.
It’s Trump who empower them and set the precedent when he directed them to come up with a way to ban bump stocks.
headednorth
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Kids get thier lunch money stolen by the bully, they say so what, I wasn't hungry anyway. Easier than fighting.Remember when everyone was saying things like:
“Bump stocks are stupid anyways so who cares.”
Who could have thought the ATF wouldn’t stop there.
News flash to all the idiots who held the above opinion: It won’t stop with pistol braces either unless you cucks understand that anything, no matter how much you don’t personally care about (like bump stocks), is a SIGNIFICANT matter that needs fighting for.
If you haven’t been paying attention, they’re currently also going after FRT’s, binary triggers, receivers (both complete and 80%), and worse, any and all firearm components.
xtry51
NES Member
You're not going to be able to remove the stock and claim its not an SBR. The ATF has always enforced "once an SBR, always and SBR".
Mark my words they are going to come after every person they can find a social media post on with a brace that they don't find a Form1 for.
Mark my words they are going to come after every person they can find a social media post on with a brace that they don't find a Form1 for.
That would only be true if it was built or bought originally as an SBR and had/has a STOCK on it.
A receiver built as a pistol from a virgin receiver that has never had a stock on it, is a pistol and will always be a pistol. UNLESS or UNTIL a 16 inch or longer barrel is mounted on it, then it becomes a RIFLE.
A rifle cannot later be configured as a pistol with a shorter than 16 inch barrel on it UNLESS it is registered as an SBR.
An originally bought or built pistol CAN become a rifle by configuring it with a 16 inch or longer barrel, the type of stock is immaterial.
A rifle CANNOT become a pistol/SBR by adding a shorter than 16-inch barrel unless a $200 making tax is paid on it, the receiver properly engraved, prints and pictures submitted, and it is registered in the NFA registry with an approved form and tax stamp returned to the maker.
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Good luck with that.
I think I have a half dozen pistol builds. All from bare receivers. All registered as "firearm".
They all have braces of one kind or another. Some have carbine buffer tubes, some have pistol tubes None have stocks on them although the carbine buffer tube fitted ones could take a stock with no changes.
At one time I thought the definition of pistol included language like , " and may not be easily fitted with a stock."
Maybe my imagination.
Other than a buffer tube change I'm not contemplating any BS compliance.
Eff them.
This makes no sense to me and sounds more like fear mongering than fact.
If an AR pistol that has a brace was never 'registered' as an SBR, how the hell can the ATF claim it's always been an SBR if I remove the brace and toss it into the wood chipper? Is the ATF a bunch of mystics that somehow knew you once had a brace on your AR pistol? How would they have known what you had on it at any given time in the past?
Now, if someone was stupid enough to post a picture of their AR pistol with a brace on Twatter or some other social media cesspool, I would call that self inflicted stupidity. Designer social media will bring down a lot of idiots in the end, and that's a good thing IMHO.
That example aside, let's not get all panicky here folks and try and keep our wits about us, shall we?
groundscrapers
NES Member
typically that would be how its done but I think they will deal with it differently in this case
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I was going to say you can un SBR an SBR.. You just file some paperwork.. Or maybe it’s you just sell it with a 16 inch plus barrel.. All I know is I wouldn’t want my lower receiver that’s registered as an SPR floating around out there and that’s another reason not to put your name as the maker. I don’t remember what I did I think mine was done on a trust.. Either way I’m not sure if you’re allowed to remove the markings.
I don’t member what it was I thought it was like once a pistol always a pistol or possibly once a rifle always a rifle I forget which one
I think it’s once a rifle always a rifle you can’t turn it back into a pistol that’s why when you build an ar 15 pistol you’re supposed to get it transferred to you as a pistol..
I stop paying attention all of this, because I don’t buy new guns anyway.
You are right about Trump opening the door with the bump stock thing
I don’t member what it was I thought it was like once a pistol always a pistol or possibly once a rifle always a rifle I forget which one
I think it’s once a rifle always a rifle you can’t turn it back into a pistol that’s why when you build an ar 15 pistol you’re supposed to get it transferred to you as a pistol..
I stop paying attention all of this, because I don’t buy new guns anyway.
You are right about Trump opening the door with the bump stock thing
You guys are taking "once a machine gun, always a machine gun' too far
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Theres something about pistols and rifles too I just don’t remember what it is but yes once a machine gun always a machine gun. But why would you want to unmachine gun a machine gun? Maybe if you’re an FFL and you built it as a machine gun and you wanted to keep it as a semi After you give up your FFL?
All the stuff gets so convoluted and then they change the definitions of things
groundscrapers
NES Member
FIFY
They don't have enough goons to even attempt an enforcement of a brace ban.
The time for "them" to ban guns, or heavily restrict ownership, was under Bush after 9/11 fOr OuR sAfEtY. They didn't do it then. Now gunowners are much more aware of how forces in our government would love to bring about a communist nightmare here. Many fudds will hand them over, but we have a whole new generation of gun people who will in no way comply. And frankly, are kinda looking forward to the day the .gov shits or gets off the pot.
xtry51
NES Member
I'm not fear mongering. I'm simply pointing to what I'm 99%sure the ATF is going to do. The government is weaponized. The FBI, ATF and IRS are all targeting conservatives while protecting Dems. The ATF will make an example of osome people. Watch. And no one in gov will stop them. No one stopped them at Waco. No one stopped them at Ruby Ridge.
No one will stop them now. They're going hard to hole on MAGA.
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The people stupid enough to let them in their house, turn their shit over without a warrant.. Their gonna have a problem they can’t prove you didn’t just throw the brace out while you were operating under the standards that they establish in the first place.
The government fails on so many levels I wouldn’t be too worried about it but honestly since the whole entire nfa is a tax scam… Maybe that’s why they’re getting all those new agents
The government fails on so many levels I wouldn’t be too worried about it but honestly since the whole entire nfa is a tax scam… Maybe that’s why they’re getting all those new agents
CatSnoutSoup
NES Member
Just say'n ...
