Asked a funny Question...

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Food for thought: you drop an item, you bend over to pick it up or crouch down to pick it up, you loose your balance, and you fall over into someone else or into the line of fire... Not all ranges have stalls or deviders....
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I understand why you wouldn't at PTown, but what's your reasoning while on a firing range?

Thats funny shit right there, I dont care who you are....[wink]
 
drew said:
Some one had stated, if you give a mouse a cookie, he will want the glass of milk too...
That is the second time I heard something to that effect... I understand alot of you think I'm some kind of anti 2nd Amend, some of you think I'm an Idiot... Regardless to what you or any one else thinks of me, too many people have firearms,that do not receive training even though they should, (because that have too much pride and ignorance to go get training) even if it was afforadble... Common sense, is not that common, and alot things around firearms isnt just common knowledge.... If we just relied on what family members and friends taught us, which for the most part is a lot of bad habbits or leave something out that is vital... Not all cases I know, not all people or gun owners obviously... I'm talking about the dumbasses that bring beer bottles to the range to shoot, the types of dumbasses that shoot porta potties etc. etc... I know it also comes down to respecting other peoples property and all other kinds of other issues, the most important thing about safety classes is the knowledge that isnt very common... Ex: Why shouldnt you bend over to pick up dropped Items while on the firing line? Never chew gum or food or smoke while shooting.... Never shoot into large bodies of water etc. etc. All common sense to most, but you would not believe how many people never would have thought about theese things.... And its things like this, that get innocent by standers seriuosly injured or killed, just wait til it happens to you or a loved one too see my point... As far as the govt. wanting the milk after they get the cookie, thats a given, but thats we have the Supreme court to help things in check....
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I still fail to see how limiting or denying someone their RIGHTS will solve this. There is irresponsible behavior involving products other than guns. Why is it that you want to single out gun ownership? Injury and death had occurred from use of automobiles, lawnmowers, swimming pools, power tools, toys for children and everything in between. I don't see the same outcry to restrict or ban other items as much as I see for guns. You are correct that common sense isn't very common, but that applies to everything, not just guns. the same type of person that brings beer to go shooting is likely the same kind of person that will drive home with a beer between his legs, or operate a lawnmower intoxicated while navigating between children while doing so. Also that kind of person will likely go swimming, or boating while intoxicated. Life is full of risks. Hell you could go out to your grill while carrying a plate full of silverware, trip and fall on a knife right through the heart and die. Should we ban or restrict anything more dangerous than safety scissors? Life is full of risk and there are dumb-asses everywhere than could cause you to be injured from their poor use of a power tool, car or hundreds of other dangerous products. It's a risk I'm willing to take to remain free. So I can only conclude that you sir, do not agree with living in a free country. Your statements show that the general public should be protected from themselves, and by force if necessary. I say thanks, but no thanks, I'll take my chances and remain free.
 
drew said:
Food for thought: you drop an item, you bend over to pick it up or crouch down to pick it up, you loose your balance, and you fall over into someone else or into the line of fire... Not all ranges have stalls or deviders....
Click to expand...

Holey stretch, batman. What are the chances. I'd venture to guess I'd be just as likely to stop near the curb of a busy street, bend over to tie my shoe, loose my balance and...........[rolleyes]
 
06LemansC6 said:
Holey stretch, batman. What are the chances. I'd venture to guess I'd be just as likely to stop near the curb of a busy street, bend over to tie my shoe, loose my balance and...........[rolleyes]
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We should regulate bending over to only approved and licensed individuals. Seeing as the state is good at getting people to bend over, they are more qualified than you or I to instruct in the correct methods and procedures. It's for the children, only the gov can prevent needless and senseless tipping over.
 
TomH said:
We should regulate bending over to only approved and licensed individuals. Seeing as the state is good at getting people to bend over, they are more qualified than you or I to instruct in the correct methods and procedures. It's for the children, only the gov can prevent needless and senseless tipping over.
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We need to issue licenses so we can sort out who is and is not authorized to bend over, therefore eliminating the threat of injury. I think it's far fetched that you lose balance and fall when you pick something up (I've never done it, but maybe to others it's a cronic problem?) and even more far fetched that you will fall head over heels past the red line and therefore drawing now angled fire from everyone else on the range which will pump you full of lead before you can retreat behind the line of safety. [rofl]
 
Seriously, what the f**k is wrong with you guys, this is a gun forum, so thats why the discussion is on guns... Yes more kids die from swimming pools, drinking and driving, and all the bad things that we do as whole... Just because it hasnt happen to you yet, doesnt mean its not going too.... It happens, just not to you, to all the millions of gun owners who accidents havent happen too, god bless em.... How the hell did you come up with this assinine statement?

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So I can only conclude that you sir, do not agree with living in a free country. Your statements show that the general public should be protected from themselves, and by force if necessary. I say thanks, but no thanks, I'll take my chances and remain free.

Just curious....
 
drew said:
How the hell did you come up with this assinine statement?

Quote:
So I can only conclude that you sir, do not agree with living in a free country. Your statements show that the general public should be protected from themselves, and by force if necessary. I say thanks, but no thanks, I'll take my chances and remain free.

Just curious....
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Strange that you are the only one here that thinks it's an "assinine" statement.

It is clear you either don't understand or don't want to understand the point. I am no longer going to contribute to the thread. It is useless to try and educate the willingly ignorant.
 
drew said:
Seriously, what the f**k is wrong with you guys, this is a gun forum, so thats why the discussion is on guns... Yes more kids die from swimming pools, drinking and driving, and all the bad things that we do as whole... Just because it hasnt happen to you yet, doesnt mean its not going too.... It happens, just not to you, to all the millions of gun owners who accidents havent happen too, god bless em.... How the hell did you come up with this assinine statement?

Quote:
So I can only conclude that you sir, do not agree with living in a free country. Your statements show that the general public should be protected from themselves, and by force if necessary. I say thanks, but no thanks, I'll take my chances and remain free.

Just curious....
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Freedom is not found in a society that tells you what to do, what to buy, and how to live. The second amendment is one of the most basic rights of freedom that were given to us by our forefathers. Saying that there are conditions that anyone clear of a criminal record must abide by before we are allowed these rights is in exact contrast to what we hope to achieve.
Every new law that has a new condition for us to follow is slowly chipping away at our freedom to keep and bear arms. I'm not telling you this to continue this argument, but merely to explain why many people oppose your viewpoint.
 
Just to prove a point, and before this really gets out of hand...

How many agree with drew?

How many disagree with drew?

That's all you need to post - forget qualifying your "yea" or "nay".
 
wether you agree with me or disagree, its my opinion and its the opinion of alot of different people who have been around firearms of all types, and around people of all different skill levels... This includes lawyers as well, and every single one them do not see how mandating free safety classes in order to own or posses or use firearms, inhibits the 2nd Amend. Theese people have seen some incredibally stupid things being done, that some of you and I would consider, simple common sense shit.... Alot of them are high ranking Officers and Enlisted personnel, with some of them going on many deployments, & have had many different MOS'.... I do understand some of the points made here, some I think are based off of fear, from govt. fearing nut jobs, who for years have been drilling things into young easily persuadable minds.... Not one of the people I have spoken to in person, can grasp how this Idea, infringes on the 2nd Amend.... So i'm not the only one... As far as the dropped items thing, read the safety sheet that every student gets & has to sign, from the Sig Sauer Academy classes... Oh yeah thats right they dont know what their talking about up there do they? One of the things that you agree upon, is not to pick up dropped items while on the shooting range.... Why do you think that is???
 
Appeals to popularity aren't going to win the argument for either side, Drew.

It bothers me that you won't consider the fact that many people simply do not have the time or money to take the training you recommend.

Gun ownership is a right. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

Do I need to take a safety course to use my oven? How about my propane grill? Taken a driving test lately? Its a joke. What about alcohol? Do I need to take alcohol and drug education before I can drink/consume them?

And these aren't even guaranteed by the Bill of Rights..
 
drew said:
wether you agree with me or disagree, its my opinion and its the opinion of alot of different people who have been around firearms of all types, and around people of all different skill levels...
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You are welcome to your opinion as long as it remains "your opinion" and not the law...

As soon as it becomes the law, we have a problem...
drew said:
This includes lawyers as well, and every single one them do not see how mandating free safety classes in order to own or posses or use firearms, inhibits the 2nd Amend. Theese people have seen some incredibally stupid things being done, that some of you and I would consider, simple common sense shit....
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Drew, again, I haven't seen anyone argue against more training or the stupidity of their fellow man...

You are confusing "a good idea" with "a good law"... Training=good, Elitist law requiring it=BAD

The trouble starts when you "require" training to exercise a RIGHT... As I pointed out, many times in the past elitists such as yourself (some well intentioned, others not) have attempted to set out "reasonable standards" for people to meet before they can do dangerous things like VOTE. Voting has killed 100's of millions of people (people killed by the state at the request of the "majority").

Again, the reason we feel so passionate about this subject is that YOU are a fine example of how we have reached this point of restriction of our right to keep and bear arms...

People like YOU have supported the moon-bat lunatics "reasonable limitations" which started a long time go with small concealable handguns, then machine guns, now knives, batons, hand guns, etc...

The moon-bats we expect to behave badly and try to infringe on our rights. Those who understand firearms should know better...
 
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I have one question to ask all of you,

If you yourself, havent been attacked yet, then why do you carry a gun for personal protection or home defense?
Think about this question, and how it would apply to all the posts that have posted here on this thread....

Most common Answer will probably be: To have the tools to help better my chances of surviving an encounter... 2) To have the proper tools, to 9 out of 10 times deter the crime from happening....
Now apply this to mine and many others idea, and you will see what I am getting at... And for those who cant, basic safety classes are a tool to have, to help minimize or prevent the chance of a serious injury or even death... A majority of the population, who want to voice their 2nd Amend right, don't feel they need to take a safety class... But yet, almost every one of you here, agree, that safety classes are a major asset... I dont know, sounds like we have some hipocrits in the audience..
 
drew said:
wether you agree with me or disagree, its my opinion and its the opinion of alot of different people who have been around firearms of all types, and around people of all different skill levels... This includes lawyers as well, and every single one them do not see how mandating free safety classes in order to own or posses or use firearms, inhibits the 2nd Amend. Theese people have seen some incredibally stupid things being done, that some of you and I would consider, simple common sense shit.... Alot of them are high ranking Officers and Enlisted personnel, with some of them going on many deployments, & have had many different MOS'.... I do understand some of the points made here, some I think are based off of fear, from govt. fearing nut jobs, who for years have been drilling things into young easily persuadable minds.... Not one of the people I have spoken to in person, can grasp how this Idea, infringes on the 2nd Amend.... So i'm not the only one... As far as the dropped items thing, read the safety sheet that every student gets & has to sign, from the Sig Sauer Academy classes... Oh yeah thats right they dont know what their talking about up there do they? One of the things that you agree upon, is not to pick up dropped items while on the shooting range.... Why do you think that is???
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You are the worst kind of gun owner; the kind that will sell out the rights of others just because you don't find it personally inconvenient. You don't just get to make up restrictions and laws because you feel like it. They have to stand up against what is allowed in the Constitution. Mandated teaching to exercise a right should not be on this list. You don't have to attend political training to vote for a candidate, yet you can do serious damage if you vote for the wrong one. That is freedom. The freedom to make good choices and bad choices. The freedom to be an idiot. The freedom to do anything you want. But you will face consequences if it infringes on another.

I really doubt that most people in the armed forces believe what you say they do. I recall a conversation with my college roomate's dad once. He flew F-15s for the airforce. I asked him how do you go about purchasing a firearm, as I was getting interested at the time. He responded: "you just go to a gun store and buy one... the Constitution gives us that right." At the time, I responded that I lived in MA, and there were restrictions. He was actually surprised at this! He lived in a free state and didn't even fathom that the government could restrict such a thing. Needless to say this a man I have a great respect for.
 
drew said:
And for those who cant, basic safety classes are a tool to have, to help minimize or prevent the chance of a serious injury or even death... A majority of the population, who want to voice their 2nd Amend right, don't feel they need to take a safety class...
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Actually the only training I'd be interested in is the type to maximize the chance of injury/death during a violent encounter. The basic gun rules are simple, and I don't have to pay $250 for a class to tell me not to point the muzzle at anyone or anything you don't want to shoot. You're not going to have an epiphany at a class telling you dumbed down gun safety.
 
A majority of the population, who want to voice their 2nd Amend right, don't feel they need to take a safety class... But yet, almost every one of you here, agree, that safety classes are a major asset... I dont know, sounds like we have some hipocrits in the audience..
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I could also say that a majority of the population, who want to exercise their right to chose their elected officials, don't feel they need to be required to take a current events or political history class... But yet, almost every one of us here agree, that politically informed voters are a major asset... I dont know, sounds like no hypocrisy to me.
 
drew said:
I have one question to ask all of you,

If you yourself, haven't been attacked yet, then why do you carry a gun for personal protection or home defense?
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Presumptuous much?

First, I have been attacked... I defended myself without a gun against deadly force and 3:1 odds...

Next time I want to make sure I don't have to rely on the lack of skill of my attackers to get through with nothing more than some superficial injuries..

Drew said:
I dont know, sounds like we have some hipocrits in the audience..
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Fail #2...

Nope... I just recognize that oppressing someone by forcing them to do something that is good for them is just as bad as oppressing them by forcing them to do something that is bad for them:

"I don't believe in a government that protects people from themselves" -Reagan...

I am willing to suffer for my freedom in the form of the possibility of injury from my fellow American's stupidity. I understand this price. I understand that I was the victim of a violent crime because of my belief in freedom and due process that allowed them to not only be out of a cage when they attacked me, but walk free after the fact...

Freedom isn't free...
 
Drew, if you want to find the hypocrite look in the mirror... You live a free country, own firearms and took an oath to protect the defend the Constitution did you not?
 
drew said:
Seriously, what the f**k is wrong with you guys, this is a gun forum, so thats why the discussion is on guns... Yes more kids die from swimming pools, drinking and driving
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So from this statement would it be a fair thing to conclude that you believe that there should be mandatory swimming classes before someone can own a pool? I mean, we already know how successful the state-mandated driving classes are... [rolleyes]


Lynne;1044964How many [B said:
disagree[/B] with drew?
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Disagree; he's an idiot and I'm about one more post away from putting him on my ignore list, as he just keeps parroting the same line, ignores my points and in general, is just a shill for the Brady Campaign.

drew said:
Now apply this to mine and many others idea, and you will see what I am getting at... And for those who cant, basic safety classes are a tool to have, to help minimize or prevent the chance of a serious injury or even death... A majority of the population, who want to voice their 2nd Amend right, don't feel they need to take a safety class... But yet, almost every one of you here, agree, that safety classes are a major asset... I dont know, sounds like we have some hipocrits in the audience..
Click to expand...

Look, just because I think wearing a helmet when you're riding a motorcycle is a great idea, it doesn't follow that I think it should be a LAW.

FREEDOM is about having the freedom to choose what you will do, without having the nanny state government ORDER you to do it.
 
I did take an oath to defend the constitution, my fellow americans, and my self and my family... Were am my saying that you cant bear arms??? If the classes are free, and they are frequently held, and you gain knowledge, which is power, the nay sayers and the govt. will have no quarrel with us legal, educated in the subject gun owners...

Under no circumstance, do I want us to lose our rights or privilidges...
As far as being attacked and the attacker getting away with it, try being a law enforcement officer, making a great arrest, then having the criminal getting set free because of some panzy ass judge, that believes the punishment doesnt fit the crime of the poor victim (meaning the criminal) of their enviroment....

I'm not a hypocrite, I just believe very strongly in gun safety education... If it becomes free training, how would I propser from it... I dont expect any of you to agree with me, alot of you are afraid of change until something severe happens to you... Like when some idiot shoots a rifle round accross the water, the bullet ricochets, hitting you or one of your family members causing death or paralization... If you have never lost your freedom of mobility or your senses, then you might want to think about the sacrifices that you are willing to suffer for someone elses stupidity..... Not common Iknow but it does happen....
 
Once again, my opinion and the opinion of others... I do respect all of your opinions, and you can close the thread any time you want.... No hard fealings towards anyone, and hope you dont keep on-going hard feelings towards me or my fellow associates...

Thank you for the input....[smile]
~Drew
 
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