Asked a funny Question...

[M1911]

Oh come on, cops are lousy shooters, but they are that bad

Sharpshooter in IDPA isn't that bad. Most shooters in IDPA are marksman. And yes, most police are that bad. I've shot with them.

 

[cekim]

And yes, most police are that bad. I've shot with them.

Like any other physical skill, its a function of how much time/effort they put into it individually...

Anyone who touches a gun once a year to qualify by irritating a paper target from a relatively short distance is going to be correspondingly bad...

If they, or their department put more time into it than that... They will likely be better... If not, worse...

 

[Jose]

I would disagree. in both you want to put hits on target as fast and as accurately as possible to win. Classification will tell you who is better at it.

In a gun fight, who would you want to go against. a GM or some guy that only goes to shooting classes?

I'll bet on the one who trains and practices gunfighting, not gun playing, more.

 

[Supermoto]

I'll bet on the one who trains and practices gunfighting, not gun playing, more.

so what are these gunfighting skills that you train that don't transfer over to gun games?

 

[delgrifith]

Like any other physical skill, its a function of how much time/effort they put into it individually...

Anyone who touches a gun once a year to qualify by irritating a paper target from a relatively short distance is going to be correspondingly bad...

If they, or their department put more time into it than that... They will likely be better... If not, worse...

+2

 

[Titan]

Just think of all the danger to humanity that exists from homeowners who are actually fixing up their own homes without ANY government-mandated proficiency training!

AND THEY'RE USING POWER TOOLS WITHOUT A LICENSE!


What are we going to do? Think of all the homes on the brink of imminent collapse.

My gosh, the emergency rooms will be overflowing with hideous and gruesome injuries.

This carnage must stop!


NO MORE willy nilly home renovations or power tool usage without proper, effective, and fully licensed eduation appropriate to the task!

.

 

[M1911]

Supermoto, from what I understand, you are an outstanding shooter. Look around you at your next IPSC match. Most of the folks with you aren't anywhere near as good as you. And most of your club members don't probably don't go to IPSC matches. And most gun owners don't even belong to a club.

You are not the average bear.

 

[Supermoto]

Supermoto, from what I understand, you are an outstanding shooter. Look around you at your next IPSC match. Most of the folks with you aren't anywhere near as good as you. And most of your club members don't probably don't go to IPSC matches. And most gun owners don't even belong to a club.

You are not the average bear.

Actually at most USPSA matches some of my squad are around the same level, some are better.

But either way, It rare when I get to bust on IDPA and LEO in the same thread, if I could get Lugnut in here with his glock love, I would have a trifecta

 

[06LemansC6]

Sure, it's easy to pick up a gun and pull the trigger... but you lose your fine motor control under extreme stress - making it that much harder to get your gun into play during a REAL mugging.

As we are each individuals, every one reacts differently and deals with stress differently. This doesn't just apply to muggings or bad guys. In an accident some people remain calm and react to help, others just panic and freeze. You can have 10 untrained people react to the same situation very differently, some would handle it well, some would not.

Is it better to get more training and practice? Absolutely! Should it be required? Absolutely not!!

Amazing that NH is one of the safest states, yet no permit or training is required to purchase a firearm.

 

[Kalahari]

And those who can't afford training classes?

Those who can't take time off work because the kids at home are hungry, and rent is due next week?

When they go home they shouldn't be allowed to carry because they've got priorities? Like feeding their children and keeping them healthy? Being able to keep a roof above their heads?

Training takes time and money. Not everyone has the time and money to be able to train "sufficiently" (however you'd define that).

 

[Kalahari]

Amazing that NH is one of the safest states, yet no permit or training is required to purchase a firearm.

Look, I don't agree with Drew, but this is a poor argument. There are far more contributing factors to the general safety of a state than permit requirements, gun ownership levels, etc. I understand what you're trying to say, and I'm sure the lack of gun control contributes to NH's safety, but there are far more factors than guns.

 

[06LemansC6]

there are far more factors than guns.

I agree. My point was simply that you don't hear about mass amount of shootings from untrained individuals despite few restrictions. The blood in the streets and accidental shootings drew describes isn't a common occurrence.

 

[Maj. Boom Boom]

how'd they afford the gun then?

i hit on a scratch ticket, thats how i did it

 

[Kalahari]

I agree. My point was simply that you don't hear about mass amount of shootings from untrained individuals despite few restrictions. The blood in the streets and accidental shootings drew describes isn't a common occurrence.

Gotcha. My mistake!

how'd they afford the gun then?

What, you guys in NH don't get guns when you buy a car?

 

[KMaurer]

how'd they afford the gun then?

The got it from their late grandfather who paid a whopping $25 for it 60-some years ago. Unfortunately you can't inherit training; in fact it's even perishable (except for most state training requirements).

Ken

 

[06LemansC6]

Gotcha. My mistake!

No mistake. I may not have made my point clear in my post.

 

[pbearperry]

These same people drive while talking on their cell phones and text messaging.Can you say the word clueless?

 

[06LemansC6]

These same people drive while talking on their cell phones and text messaging.

While carrying a gun!?

 

[Jose]

so what are these gunfighting skills that you train that don't transfer over to gun games?

If you had any you would know.

But let's start with taking all shots from a static two-handed isoceles position. Yeah, that's smart in a fight.

Or, let's get in a clinch and fight from there. I'm sure ISPC stages have a lot of that.

Do some force on force with people who know how to fight and then let's talk.

 

[cekim]

But let's start with taking all shots from a static two-handed isoceles position. Yeah, that's smart in a fight.

"Witnesses reported that the last thing the victim did was pull out his safety glasses, hearing protection and shooting gloves..."

 

[TomH]

Were in the hell, are you coming up with this Brady Center Bullshit? You have to licensed to do certain things, and in order to obtain certain licenses, you have to be certified or qualified to do so.... So why the hell, should you not have to be properly taught basic firearms safety? Stop using the freaking 2nd Amend, as an excuse for letting people remain ignorant... I'm all for people owning firearms, I'm all for people being able to protect themselves and loved ones... People like me, are trying to change the negative outlook the Anti's are trying to portray... Any body with any common sense, would realize, that if it was mandated to take a basic safety class, then everybody would be educated in safe handling of firearms and the antis wouldnt have a leg to stand on... Some of you are dismissing the fact there so many dumbasses that are getting away with negligence and child neglect/abuse, because their using the 2nd Amend. as a scapegoat for careless or stupidity on their behalf... If they took a safety class and learned how to properly store a firearm when not in use or in your possession then their kid who was left unattended, (another issue I know, but they are linked) wouldnt have gotten a hold of said gun, and shot themselves or another child for matter.... Common sense would tell theese people this stuff, but it still happens... So saying people like me, give fuel to the antis fire is a moronic thing to say....

Sorry but you just quoted some anti rhetoric there.
This:

Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence

"When someone's carrying a gun around and they're not fully trained, oftentimes they'll use it just because it's there,"

http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20090804/1aguns04_st.art.htm

You are using the exact argument of the people trying to eliminate gun ownership. How can you say you are different? What part of "shall not infringe" is not clear? Licensing is the first step to eliminating. Read some history on the terrible regimes out there... start with Nazi Germany for one.

 

[Jose]

"Witnesses reported that the last thing the victim did was pull out his safety glasses, hearing protection and shooting gloves..."

And assume the surrender position before beeping to try to draw a pistol.

 

[Jose]

so what are these gunfighting skills that you train that don't transfer over to gun games?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZAvyXzBE3M

Take a look at this video starting at around 2:50. Please don't tell me that such instinctive, point shooting with VERY dynamic movement is something that USPSA competitors regularly use.

I know better than that.

You and I are coming at this from two diametrically opposed angles, it seems.

 

[vellnueve]

You have to licensed to do certain things, and in order to obtain certain licenses, you have to be certified or qualified to do so.... So why the hell, should you not have to be properly taught basic firearms safety?

Why the hell should I have to get a license to do whatever the hell I want?

 

[vellnueve]

Actually at most USPSA matches some of my squad are around the same level, some are better.

Shoot in my squad. I can absolutely guarantee that someone will shoot worse than you.

 

[Racenet]

You can't legislate common sense. Some people could take all the courses in the world and still not be safe.
Plenty of people grew up with firearms in the house unlocked and readily accesable prior to all this gun control and training without it being a problem.
The difference is that most parents were responsible and they passed this on to their children. Nowadays not anywhere near as much. Most people want to pass the buck.

That pretty much says it all right there. Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[kaetaur]

rights vs ability

The right to defend yourself has nothing to do with your ability in anything else. 2A is defining rights for all citizens of the USA. Firearms help equalize the ability to defend yourself. If you can train you will be better at it than someone who does not train. I would love to afford more firearms training. My budget right now says that I am unable to do so. If necessary I would attempt to defend myself and my loved ones with a firearms regardless of my training level. As soon as I can afford more training and better equipment I will get it. For now I will have to practice basics with what I have and hope I never need it. Now if someone wants to give me a bunch of free training and free equipment I will find the time to take advantage of it. Here is a suggestion I am sure people will jump on the bandwagon for. How about an organization be developed to put firearms and equipment in every household? Now we can give away rent, food, clothing and firearms to the poor! Should my or anyone's right to bear arms be dictated by training? In the end everything in anyone's life is dictated by how much they have or can get. If I find free training I will happily go take it and probably even try to pay for more training after that. So after all is said and done the debate rages on...

 

[drew]

Alot of you are misunderstanding what I am saying... So let me clearify, I am not anti-gun or anti 2nd Amend. I am for people learning basic safety of firearms, which includes handling and shooting fundamentals as well as the laws for each locality or State for which they reside in... Further more, I cannot comprehend for the life of me, why some of you think that mandated training impedes the 2nd Amendment... Yes, everyone has the right to defend themselves and family... I am a certified firearms instructor, in four different disciplines including personal protection... I dont read the anti gun reports, I dont agree with the Brady campaign, but I am about safety safety safety... I am certified through Sig Sauer Academy as a LE and Personal protection Instructor... I'll offer up some training for a very low price, anyone interested, send me a PM.... Heres a small list of some of the materials you will learn:
____ LAWS ON CONCEALED CARRY IN MA

____ SAFE DIRECTION

____ MUZZLE MANAGEMENT

____ TRIGGER FINGER DISCIPLINE

____ GRIP

____ STANCE

____ PRESENTATION OF FIREARM FROM HOLSTER

____ FIREARM BACK TO HOLSTER

____ ACCESSING WEAPON WITH OPEN FRONT
GARMENT

____ ACCESSING WEAPON WITH CLOSED FRONT
GARMENT
____ TRIGGER PRESS

____ SIGHT ALIGNMENT

____ SIGHT PICTURE

____ WALL DRILL

____ POINT SHOOTING

____ PRECISION SHOOTING

____ ONE WHOLE DRILL

____ COMMUNICATION

____ MOVING

____ SHOOTING WHILE MOVING

____ VISUAL PANNING

____ EMERGENCY RELOAD (TWO HANDED)

____ TACTICAL RELOAD

____ TACTICAL RELOAD WITH RETENSION

____ EMERGENCY RELOAD WHILE MOVING

____ TACTICAL RELOAD WHILE MOVING

____ TACTICAL RELOAD WITH RETENSION WHILE
MOVING

____ RELOADING ONE HANDED (EMERG/TACT)

____ SHOOTING WITH SUPPORT HAND

____ SHOOTING ONE HAND ONLY

____ SHOOTING FROM DIFFERENT POSITIONS

____ USE OF COVER

____ USE OF FLASHLIGHT

____ MULTIPLE TARGETS

____ BULLETS AND VEHICLES

____ REAL LIFE SCENARIOS

____ FAMILY PLANNING



____ SAFE DIRECTION

____ MUZZLE MANAGEMENT

____ TRIGGER FINGER DISCIPLINE

____ GRIP

____ STANCE

____ PRESENTATION OF FIREARM FROM HOLSTER

____ FIREARM BACK TO HOLSTER

____ ACCESSING WEAPON WITH OPEN FRONT
GARMENT

____ ACCESSING WEAPON WITH CLOSED FRONT
GARMENT
____ TRIGGER PRESS

____ SIGHT ALIGNMENT

____ SIGHT PICTURE

____ WALL DRILL

____ POINT SHOOTING

____ PRECISION SHOOTING

____ ONE WHOLE DRILL

____ COMMUNICATION

____ MOVING

____ SHOOTING WHILE MOVING

____ VISUAL PANNING

____ EMERGENCY RELOAD (TWO HANDED)

____ TACTICAL RELOAD

____ TACTICAL RELOAD WITH RETENSION

____ EMERGENCY RELOAD WHILE MOVING

____ TACTICAL RELOAD WHILE MOVING

____ TACTICAL RELOAD WITH RETENSION WHILE
MOVING

____ RELOADING ONE HANDED (EMERG/TACT)

____ SHOOTING WITH SUPPORT HAND

____ SHOOTING ONE HAND ONLY

____ SHOOTING FROM DIFFERENT POSITIONS

____ USE OF COVER

____ USE OF FLASHLIGHT

____ MULTIPLE TARGETS

____ BULLETS AND VEHICLES

____ REAL LIFE SCENARIOS

____ FAMILY PLANNING

ist of some of the materials you will learn:

 

[Ish]

You know what people like that guy thinks, right? They are the kind of people that think that only Asians knows martial arts and only Spaniards play the guitar, so only LEOs have training with guns. Stupid, it is just stupid.

Ish.

 

[drew]

No I dont think that, only Asians know martial arts and only Spaniards know how to play the Guitar... For one, I have a background in three different martial arts... Two, my old guitar instructor was a Caucasian, and very very good at his his job... And as for the Sensei, he also was Caucasian, with a 3rd degree Black Belt in four different forms... So before you continue to talk out your ass, think before you type!!!! I do realize that there are alot of LEOs out there that dont know how to shoot, Thats why I became an Instructor... I also became an Instructor, so people that cant afford the expensive schools, can get further firearms training at an affordable price... I like I said in one of the posts, most people don't think they need any further training, outside of the Basic Safety class....