AR-15s for Dummies

[JAMMIN]

You guys still aren't getting it... Look, when you start teaching someone to shoot, do you immediately start talking about the difference between +P and standard pressure rounds? Do you immediately start telling someone about unsupported firing chambers leading to a big kaboom? Of course you don't. You start with "This is a gun", and "the bullets go here". Actually, you probably start with "the difference between a bullet and a round is...". THAT'S the level I'm looking for here, folks - think raw newbie and you're not far off.



dwarven1, when you go to purchase a car you don't buy it on looks and literature alone, you test drive it and compare, for what its worth and IMHO you should go to a range that lets you rent them and try many different AR's. They are all pretty much the same in orientation but one will surely pop out at you as the one that stands out the best. Cost obviously is a factor but for what you need it for will justify that. I stand firmly behind RRA they are a great company and easy to deal with. Good luck in your search and I'm sure any of these nice guys here would have you shoot any of there guns you are more than welcome to try mine.

 

[dwarven1]

Question on the uppers - is the barrel permanently attached to upper, or can you change out barrels easily? Since I see that you'd use different twist rates for different applications. Or would you just get two whole uppers instead?

 

[Cross-X]

Question on the uppers - is the barrel permanently attached to upper, or can you change out barrels easily? Since I see that you'd use different twist rates for different applications. Or would you just get two whole uppers instead?

You _could_ change out a barrel on an upper, if you had the proper tools and know-how.

Most people don't.

They just buy another upper.

Much easier that way, and less risky if you don't really know how to do the barrel swapl

 

[doobie]

Question on the uppers - is the barrel permanently attached to upper, or can you change out barrels easily? Since I see that you'd use different twist rates for different applications. Or would you just get two whole uppers instead?

You *can* change the barrel on the upper, however you do need special tools and it isn't something you would probably be able to do in the field. You would probably just want a second/third complete upper.

You can field swap the bolt so you wouldn't need multiple bolts, unless of course you are using a different caliber. I mentioned in another post (or PM) trying to ensure you have rails on your uppers. This will help you swap your toys from one barrel to another.

 

[1903Collector]

Another great thing about ARs these days is you are not stuck with 223, you can get them in 308, 260 Rem, 6.8 SPC, 243 Win, 458 Socom, 204 Ruger, just to name a few.

 

[Twigg]

I had read an interesting article in a back issue of Guns and Ammo and did a search to find it. Here it is; America's Rifle: The AR, has eight pages of information about complete rifles, components / parts and accessories.

I also found an article with a similar title at the Shooting Times web site America's Rifle: From The Grip Up where the author takes readers step-by-step through the building of an AR chambered for .204 Ruger. The step-by-step process is not as detailed as presented in other links provided in this thread but other posters but it covers what tools are used, how to use them and a useful trick or two.

Personally I found them both helpful. I think I'm going to wind up building a lower and purchasing a complete upper.

 

[Wildweasel]

Ross if you want to assemble one I will be happy to provide tools and the place to do the work.
(there are a few tools that are nice to have assembling the lower for example. ) I also have the stuff to do most barrel installations.

 

[andy t]

Question on the uppers - is the barrel permanently attached to upper, or can you change out barrels easily? Since I see that you'd use different twist rates for different applications. Or would you just get two whole uppers instead?

LMT and VLTOR have released upper/handguard combinations that allow you to change the barrel with only an allen wrench as a tool. However, these platforms are rather expensive - running in the neighborhood of $700-900 for upper/FF rail combo.

Here is LMT's version:
http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,14632,Soldiertech_RailPlatform,,00.html

 

[Joe R.]

You guys still aren't getting it... Look, when you start teaching someone to shoot, do you immediately start talking about the difference between +P and standard pressure rounds? Do you immediately start telling someone about unsupported firing chambers leading to a big kaboom? Of course you don't. You start with "This is a gun", and "the bullets go here". Actually, you probably start with "the difference between a bullet and a round is...". THAT'S the level I'm looking for here, folks - think raw newbie and you're not far off.

Then let's try this tack with you Ross. The most basic AR to start with that most people do is a 20" HBAR or standard goverment profile barrel. The rifle can be used for most anything that you throw at it and can be one of the cheaper ways to get into an AR. Next would be any of the 16" carbine rifles that will be okay to start with. What does either of these give you for the money? It gives you a fully functional AR rifle that will allow you to start getting used to what one is and how it handles. It also gives you the lower that can be moved to other uppers when you figure out what else strikes your fancy. I grabbed a Bushmaster 20" HBAR for $750 back in 1997 or so and played with that until I got the High Power bug back. $500 or so got me a RRA CMP service upper and another $70 or so got their match trigger that turned the rifle into a competition rifle. The choice is yours to decide.

Joe R.

 

[RM007]

http://www.mgimilitary.com/

 

[Wildweasel]

Go with a 20" (1/9 twist) Flat top (A4 with carry handle and sights))or A2 configuration to start, you can shoot it in CMP matches if you wanted to, and Optics are still possible. down the line if you like it you can swap the barrel or the upper etc..
AT the next gun show get a Kit (450.00) and a lower (In the 100.00 range) and come on out to the homestead and we will put it together, have a visit and feed ya too. Done.(And test fire it)

If you are really interested in CMP you should go with a 1/7 barrel but I can help you install one in the future.
Keep the investment low for now and you can buy a good barrel and I can upgrade the rear sights for you if you want then. (there are a few tricks to tighten up the rear sight on an A2. I have done one before and it isn't hard for me. (I have the machine tools)

 

[Cross-X]

http://www.mgimilitary.com/

Have you ever tried any of their quick change rifles?

 

[cdkayak]

I would lean towards Joe R.'s recommendations here. You could start with a stock AR with a 20" barrel, flat top upper and removable carry handle. That would give you the flexibility to shoot with iron sights or remove the carry handle & put a scope on it. With the carry handle on you could try your hand at High Power & see if you like that.

Then if you like the AR platform you could look into different uppers, match triggers, .22 conversions etc. Just about anything you can think of.

I've been happiest with my Bushmasters. Had some mionor issues with Stag & LMT.

Assembly of lower & upper receivers is not difficult as long as you take your time. The lower mostly requires a few punches and patience. The upper requires a few special tools(receiver block & barrel wrench) to do the job correctly.

 

[KMM696]

I would lean towards Joe R.'s recommendations here. You could start with a stock AR with a 20" barrel, flat top upper and removable carry handle. That would give you the flexibility to shoot with iron sights or remove the carry handle & put a scope on it. With the carry handle on you could try your hand at High Power & see if you like that.

Then if you like the AR platform you could look into different uppers, match triggers, .22 conversions etc. Just about anything you can think of.

Excellent recommendation, that. The flat top upper with the removable carry handle will be a little more expensive than an A2 upper, but gives you more options on optics mounting if you decide to add them later, and lets you shoot iron sights now. Once you've used it for a while, you'll figure out what direction you want the rifle to go - if any.

Now that I'm thinking about it, the only decision you have to make up front is whether you will ever want a collapsible/folding stock or a bayonet on it. If you do, than spend the extra $$ for a preban that will give you more options. The flash hider/muzzle brake issue has work-arounds that make it less of an issue.

Once you have the rifle, you (as in you, at home, with some inexpensive specialty tools and some parts catalogs) can make it into anything you want, change it back, whatever you need it to be. Most of the rifle is assembly work, not gunsmith work. In many cases, like better triggers, you can buy the gunsmith work, and still assemble it yourself.

If there's any specific questions in the process, there are a lot of people out there with the answers, here, AR15.com, the M4 site. The chances are excellent that someone out there has already done what you want to try, and is just DYING to tell you about it, at length, whether you want them to or not. Like if I start telling you why I went from an A2 stock to a collapsible to an A1....

 

[Admin]

No. Only the lower has a serial number, so once you register the one completed gun, you may add a many uppers - in as many calibers - as your wallet and interest permit.

The same as putting a Ceiner conversion on your 1911 or a Mech-Tech conversion on a Glock.

+1 Get as many uppers as you want. Have them shipped to your door.

 

[Scrivener]

Instead of playing with loose bits and pieces of the trigger group, you might want to consider dropping in a Chip McCormick modular unit or equivalent. I replaced the parts in my Olympic with the CM unit - took about 10", if that. For a new install, insert unit, insert 2 pins, done.

 

[RM007]

Yes.
new Quick Change Barrel system has revolutionized the AR15 / M16 / M4 Weapon System. This new upper receiver is completely compatible with your M16 (small front pin) lower receiver and allows you to change barrels in just seconds. This makes it possible for the system to be extremely compact and concealable, as well as giving the operator the option of having multiple barrels for multiple functions.
The best part of our QCB Upper Receiver is that it utilizes standard M16 barrels!

 

[Admin]

Yes.
new Quick Change Barrel system has revolutionized the AR15 / M16 / M4 Weapon System. This new upper receiver is completely compatible with your M16 (small front pin) lower receiver and allows you to change barrels in just seconds. This makes it possible for the system to be extremely compact and concealable, as well as giving the operator the option of having multiple barrels for multiple functions.
The best part of our QCB Upper Receiver is that it utilizes standard M16 barrels!

I need to check one of those out.

 

[Snapshot]

Really? Please explain how mindlessly submitting an unnecessary and improperly filled out form is "a good thing."

~snip~

"Help" like that you can live without....

Ahhh my first run in with the infamous Scrivener. I feel like I’ve completed some rite of passage.

Scrivener, did anybody ever tell you…. Nahhh.... I’m sure they have… many times.

The problem is that all of the above assumes that we are dealing with a system that is fair and just towards gun owners. If this were a perfect world I would agree with everything you’ve said. But alas, this world… or more to the point, this state is anything but perfect. Therefore, I will gladly take any little piece of paper I can get my hands on to prove to a jury that I did all that I could to stay above the board.

If the dealer did something wrong, it’s on him. It makes no problems for me and makes me look good in the eyes of anybody who ever gets brought in after the fact.

So while it may be "useless", what problems does it cause me?

 

[striped1]

first decide if this is a fighting rifle that you want to stake your life on or is it a plinker.

If it is a stake your life on it gun, then stay with the following:

Colt
LMT
Noveske
Larue
Defensive Edge

If not, you can due fine with bushmaster, DPMS armalite, etc. The will require some work, like checking and fixing the gas key staking and an extractor upgrade with propert insert and o ring, but it can be done with some research.

You do not need a M4 cut barrel. The length of the barrel isn't as important as the length of the gas system. Longer the gas tube, generally the more reliable.

Twist, 1/7 is better is 1/9. It will stabilize heavier bullets and will allow you better performance at longer ranges.

a flat top upper is best which will allow you to mount optics an still utilize stock irons if you want or better yet, don't buy the carry handle, and get some good (midwest industries or larue back up iron sights (BUIS).


Personally, go with LMT lower with the stock configuration of your choice.
a flat top lmt upper with a 16" barrel

buy some good magazines

never buy anything from GG&G. If you buy aftermarket parts, stay with the following:

larue
daniel defense
midwest industries
surefire
aimpoint
magpul
vltor
troy industries

 

[Scrivener]

The problem is that all of the above assumes that we are dealing with a system that is fair and just towards gun owners. If this were a perfect world I would agree with everything you’ve said. But alas, this world… or more to the point, this state is anything but perfect. Therefore, I will gladly take any little piece of paper I can get my hands on to prove to a jury that I did all that I could to stay above the board.

If the dealer did something wrong, it’s on him. It makes no problems for me and makes me look good in the eyes of anybody who ever gets brought in after the fact.

So while it may be "useless", what problems does it cause me?

And what do you think a superfluous FA-10 will do to protect you from a jury? Or is this just a desperate attempt to rationalize a pointless act?

As far as problems; you have the legal obligation to register the gun if and when it actually becomes a gun, as opposed to a glorified doorstop.

However, your "helpful" dealer has already submitted an FA-10 with that same serial number. So - which do you think will be the more likely to be tossed as redundant?

And if it's your necessary FA-10 which gets tossed, as opposed to the previously - but improperly - filed FA-10, it is you who are actually (if only theoretically) exposed by NOT having your now-completed gun duly registered.

Care to explain that subtle nuance of Mass. firearms law to a jury?

Care to tell us again how "helpful" your friendly dealer was?

I'll bet he also refuses to sell NIB Ruger rifles to FID holders, despite the facts that:

1. NO Ruger long arm is on the "Assault Weapons Roster;" and

2. NO Ruger long arm was or is sold to the general public with "large capacity" magazines. *

You know - he just wants to be "helpful." Fabricating imaginary "laws" and then restricting us further with them is so beneficial......



* NOTE: This does NOT apply to used Rugers sold with after-market mags.

 

[Jose]

Another great thing about ARs these days is you are not stuck with 223, you can get them in 308, 260 Rem, 6.8 SPC, 243 Win, 458 Socom, 204 Ruger, just to name a few.

You cannot take a lower from a 223 AR and slap on an upper chambered in 308, 260, or any other 308-based cartridge. It is physically impossible.

The AR15 and the AR10 (and its clones) are two very different rifles dimensionally speaking.

 

[bpm990d]

I think he is talking about the modular lower receiver that was posted a little while ago. It has a magazine well that comes off the trigger group and you can switch it out for a larger one.

Neat concept.

B

 

[Jose]

I think he is talking about the modular lower receiver that was posted a little while ago. It has a magazine well that comes off the trigger group and you can switch it out for a larger one.

Neat concept.

B

Oh, never heard of those.

 

[massnee]

how about taking a ar15 lower and making it a .50bmg...

 

[Snapshot]

And what do you think a superfluous FA-10 will do to protect you from a jury? Or is this just a desperate attempt to rationalize a pointless act?

As far as problems; you have the legal obligation to register the gun if and when it actually becomes a gun, as opposed to a glorified doorstop.

However, your "helpful" dealer has already submitted an FA-10 with that same serial number. So - which do you think will be the more likely to be tossed as redundant?

And if it's your necessary FA-10 which gets tossed, as opposed to the previously - but improperly - filed FA-10, it is you who are actually (if only theoretically) exposed by NOT having your now-completed gun duly registered.

Care to explain that subtle nuance of Mass. firearms law to a jury?

Care to tell us again how "helpful" your friendly dealer was?

I'll bet he also refuses to sell NIB Ruger rifles to FID holders, despite the facts that:

1. NO Ruger long arm is on the "Assault Weapons Roster;" and

2. NO Ruger long arm was or is sold to the general public with "large capacity" magazines. *

You know - he just wants to be "helpful." Fabricating imaginary "laws" and then restricting us further with them is so beneficial......



* NOTE: This does NOT apply to used Rugers sold with after-market mags.

I don't even know how to respond to all of that. You clearly have some sort of personal bias. Maybe it's just the principle of it all. I don't know. Either way, no matter how logical it sounds, with all the sarcasm and loaded rhetoric on your response, I have no choice but to question the source.

I don't think it hurts. Maybe I'm wrong. Nobody said you have to agree. All I know is that the only reasons you've given to NOT do it is redundancy and an extremely iffy hypothetical. Not that my hypotheticals are any less iffy but hey... if I'm wrong then I'll have nobody to blame but myself. I'd rather take that then the advice of somebody who clearly has some sort of unknown ax to grind.

 

[bpm990d]

Oh, never heard of those.

MGI

 

[Jose]

MGI

IIRC the width of the upper and lower on an AR10 are also greater than on an AR15.

 

[bpm990d]

The guy that makes them is right here in Bangor. I've never seen one but it looks kind of neat. Not sure exactly how it works though or about what kind of magazines it uses or what calibers it will shoot.

I'd have to measure the receiver to let you know about the AR10 width. Near the trigger group it is the same since the triggers are the same as the AR-15 ones. The magazine well is a little larger but not much. I'll measure it tomorrow.

B

 

[1903Collector]

You cannot take a lower from a 223 AR and slap on an upper chambered in 308, 260, or any other 308-based cartridge. It is physically impossible.

The AR15 and the AR10 (and its clones) are two very different rifles dimensionally speaking.

Yes, I know this as I have owned both, I was just trying to say that you can get the AR platform in other chamberings other than 223. Is that a better way of saying it?