Apendix and striker fired

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There are advantages and disadvantages to every way of carrying. That is no different for appendix or for 4 o’clock. One of the disadvantages of carrying at 4 o’clock is if someone gives you a hug, they are quite likely to place a hand right on your gun and discover that you are carrying — been there done that. In contrast, only someone very close to you is going to place hand on your belly.

Yup. On point. Except that you forgot to mention the disadvantage that the gun is pointing at you when you sit down.

Here is the reality, and I think even pro-AIWB people will agree with this. If you do everything right, there is very little chance you will get hurt carrying AIWB. Modern guns are massively reliable and very very rarely go off on their own. Even the dreaded Sig P320 problem required a significant fall onto a hard surface.

But it does happen.

Far more likely is that you will make a mistake. Familiarity breeds carelessness. That strange tingle of apprehension you got when you first started AIWB carry that helped you make sure you didn't sweep yourself when you put on the holster is gone. So now every once in a while, maybe 1 in 20 times you angle the gun in towards yourself when you put the holster on.
Of that 1 in 20 times, probably 99,999 out of 100,000 times there won't be a problem.

But that doesn't change the fact that there has been a proliferation of instances with people shooting theiir junk off when holstering and shooting their leg when bending over. It DOES happen.

Guns also go off when you are carrying IWB. But the chance that it will hit you is essentially zero.

So I guess it comes down to the reality that AIWB is less forgiving of gun failures and user error compared to a 4 O'clock carry. Can we agree on that?

I've been shooting for 35 years. I've screwed up. I almost shot my dog because my finger slipped inside the trigger guard of my shotgun when I tripped over a root and I had taken the safety off prematurely anticipating a flush.

I've seen my finger on the trigger during a reload while reviewing video footage of an IDPA match.
I guess thats the difference. Old guys admit that they make mistakes. Young guys are infallible.

I say this and I'm a far better shot then most young guys. No offense, but thats how it is. I don't care if its NRA slowfire rifle, sporting clays, or IDPA/USPSA. I have excellent muscle memory, born of tens of thousands of repititions. AND I STILL SCREW UP SOMETIMES.

/rant

one last thing, don't take the above as cockiness. I am probably top 30% when I compete. But hardly exceptional. But I've found that even mid pack competitors are better than 99% of non competitors. That's just how it is.
 
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That’s not true for me. There are quite a few people who I care about and who care about me whom I haven’t told that I carry. We have very different political views.

The pool of people that I am hugging is probably very small. Outside of family its only going to be maybe 3 people. Wives of good friends that are also shooters. Everyone else gets a nice handshake
 

M1911

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Yup. On point. Except that you forgot to mention the disadvantage that the gun is pointing at you when you sit down.

Oh come on. My post never claimed to categorize all of the advantages or disadvantages of either type of holsters. Let’s turn on the way back machine and reread what I wrote.

There are advantages and disadvantages to every way of carrying. That is no different for appendix or for 4 o’clock. One of the disadvantages of carrying at 4 o’clock is if someone gives you a hug, they are quite likely to place a hand right on your gun and discover that you are carrying — been there done that. In contrast, only someone very close to you is going to place hand on your belly.

As you can see, I only spoke about ONE of the advantages/disadvantages. There are others. I didn’t “forget” about other disadvantages, and your implication that I was deliberately misleading is inappropriate.

I agree that you are more likely to get seriously injured if you have an ND with appendix carry than 4 o’clock carry. But you can also be injured if you have an ND with 4 o’clock carry.

Depending on your body shape, holster, and how you position the holster, if you have an ND with 4 o’clock carry you may well be injured. People have shot themselves in the butt and in the leg while using a 4 o’clock holster. I do suspect it is more likely to be a grazing injury than with AIWB.

People sweep themselves all the time when holstering, even with 4 o’clock carry.

Each method has advantages and disadvantages. Each has different safety issues and, unfortunately, there are no easily accessible statistics about the safety of one method versus another. So pick your poison.
 
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MFSP101

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Thanks guys just need to clear that up. So it’s really preference which is what I thought. Biggest take away for me is don’t be careless.
 

M1911

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Thanks guys just need to clear that up. So it’s really preference which is what I thought. Biggest take away for me is don’t be careless.

I think it is fair to say that AIWB has a higher risk of serious injury than other forms of carry. How much higher a risk seems impossible to quantify.

Some will argue that a striker fired gun with a short trigger pull (like a Glock) has a higher risk of an ND than a DA/SA or a gun with a manual safety.

How much is risk increased if you combine one the two? I don’t think anyone can quantify that risk, so it comes down to your judgment. Clearly different people have different opinions about that risk.
 

Dennis in MA

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It's not the striker that the problem. It's the short light trigger pull and no safety. If it's a striker with a safety then no problem.

Hmmm. I could see someone blowing Richard and the Twins away far easier with a hammer-fired firearm.

Think of your average NES'er. A bit to a lot overweight. Jolly. Just a barrel of fun. Let's say that barrel of fun guffaws once too often and he snaps the safety (which is pressed against his belly) off on that Sig 938 or whatever.

NOW, tell me that striker-fired is either light OR short pull.

In my experience, I've never found (without home modification, which on a carry pistol is a whole uh'nuthuh set of discussions) a striker pistol to be light OR short in trigger pull. Is it less in both cases than a revolver? Sure. But safeties fail. So maybe your fallback position should be wheel guns only. (No Rhino's allowed. LOL)
 
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AIWB for me. All the videos and stories of people shooting themselves is because of improper handling or equipment. I have a solid Hank's belt, a Vedder holster that completely covers the trigger, and never insert the gun into the holster while the holster is inside of my pants. This ensures that there is nothing in the trigger guard when I'm putting the holster in, and with the G19/G43 I carry I have no reason to believe the gun will just "go off" by itself. I'm pretty lanky, so it's super comfortable for me - I have no issues sitting down, or even riding my motorcycle like this.

I'm not careless, my holster ritual is almost religious, so I have no issues with AIWB.
 

Glockster30

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There are a ton of videos showing the proper methods of AIWB and strong side carrying of a firearm. However, I like this one because it covers both in one video. It's a little long at a bit over 12 minutes, but it's very helpful for providing safe handling information including the reholstering of a firearm whether it's AIWB or strong side carry.




Is Appendix Carry Safe? - Lucky Gunner Lounge
 

DPR

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I'll assume that each method of carry has the same % of NDs but a dude ripping one off at their junk because they're an idiot is far more funnier to read. For me AIWB has no advantage over other methods of carry.
 

Brewer

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Glock with all stock internals, one chambered, kydex AIWB. As Squib308 said, I couldn't make it fire while holstered if I wanted to.
most modern strikers are fully cocked thus they are prevented from firing by a mechanical block such as sear and firing pin block. both woudl have to fail to allow the gun to discharge. it just isn't going to happen.
The only wild card is whether I have brass, shirt, or finger in the way as I reholster. That's all personal discipline. Since you only reholster at the range or after a fight is over, it's pretty easy to take a moment and watch what you're doing.
 
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One thing I have not seen mentioned is that the draw speed from concealment while carrying AIWB is faster than from 4:00 (probably faster than from any other concealed carry position).

If you ever need to draw your handgun in self-defense, chances are high that you'll be behind the reactionary curve, and since even an untrained person can pull a trigger every 1/4 second, that difference could be significant.
 

M1911

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There are a ton of videos showing the proper methods of AIWB and strong side carrying of a firearm. However, I like this one because it covers both in one video. It's a little long at a bit over 12 minutes, but it's very helpful for providing safe handling information including the reholstering of a firearm whether it's AIWB or strong side carry.




Is Appendix Carry Safe? - Lucky Gunner Lounge

That is an outstanding video.
 
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One thing I have not seen mentioned is that the draw speed from concealment while carrying AIWB is faster than from 4:00 (probably faster than from any other concealed carry position).

If you ever need to draw your handgun in self-defense, chances are high that you'll be behind the reactionary curve, and since even an untrained person can pull a trigger every 1/4 second, that difference could be significant.

This is one big reason I like AIWB. Another is the gun is at your center of mass with both hands protecting it allowing you better control over it if it came to a scuffle.
 

M1911

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NOW, tell me that striker-fired is either light OR short pull.

In my experience, I've never found (without home modification, which on a carry pistol is a whole uh'nuthuh set of discussions) a striker pistol to be light OR short in trigger pull. Is it less in both cases than a revolver? Sure. But safeties fail.

I think that depends. All my carry Glocks have Glock minus connectors, which brings the trigger weight down to about 4.5 lbs. Is that light? Depends upon who you are asking. My competition Glock has a 3 lb trigger, which I think most would agree is "light", and is not something I would carry.

While the Glock trigger isn't a short a travel as a 1911 trigger, it is still short compared to a Kahr or DA/SA.

One advantage of a hammer-fired, DA/SA gun is that if you holster with your thumb on the hammer, you may be able to feel the hammer start to move back if something contacts the trigger while holstering, and that might allow you to stop holstering before the bang. With a striker-fired gun, you don't have that option.
 
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Hmmm. I could see someone blowing Richard and the Twins away far easier with a hammer-fired firearm.

Think of your average NES'er. A bit to a lot overweight. Jolly. Just a barrel of fun. Let's say that barrel of fun guffaws once too often and he snaps the safety (which is pressed against his belly) off on that Sig 938 or whatever.

NOW, tell me that striker-fired is either light OR short pull.

In my experience, I've never found (without home modification, which on a carry pistol is a whole uh'nuthuh set of discussions) a striker pistol to be light OR short in trigger pull. Is it less in both cases than a revolver? Sure. But safeties fail. So maybe your fallback position should be wheel guns only. (No Rhino's allowed. LOL)

I'd like one example of a modern firearm's safety getting flipped off without a finger doing it AND then the trigger getting pulled without a finger involvement. I have glock 26 and the trigger pull is not long and it's 5 lbs. There are examples of glocks trigger getting pulled without a finger.
 

drgrant

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I noticed some of you saying they wouldn’t carry a striker fired in appendix carry. Why? I carry a LC9S in a sticky holster in left pocket and pretty confident on pulling it out that finger placement is good. Just wondering why you don’t like/trust it.

If I weighed what I did in high school I probably would carry appendix. Any kind of a spare tire though, and forget it, waste of time.

-Mike
 

drgrant

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There are advantages and disadvantages to every way of carrying. That is no different for appendix or for 4 o’clock. One of the disadvantages of carrying at 4 o’clock is if someone gives you a hug, they are quite likely to place a hand right on your gun and discover that you are carrying — been there done that. In contrast, only someone very close to you is going to place hand on your belly.

Yeah, but at 3 or 4 oclock IWB, frankly if you do it right you can politely intercept their arms and it almost becomes an automatic reflex in terms of "shielding" the gun side. Might depend on how tall someone is. My ex would practically have to pull a joe biden on me to figure out whether or not I was carrying...

-Mike
 
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If I weighed what I did in high school I probably would carry appendix. Any kind of a spare tire though, and forget it, waste of time.

-Mike

True.

Another is if you are the guy who has 12 pair of the same brand pants/belt and only wear that. If you change it up or do athletic activities. It’s hard to carry only one way all the time.
 
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I'd like one example of a modern firearm's safety getting flipped off without a finger doing it AND then the trigger getting pulled without a finger involvement. I have glock 26 and the trigger pull is not long and it's 5 lbs. There are examples of glocks trigger getting pulled without a finger.


99% of the time you see something like this its because someone was too lazy to re-holster properly. IMO and I'm sure 100 people will chime in otherwise, but if you're holstering IWB you should be taking your holster off, putting the gun in it to make sure its secured properly, and then put the holster on. This guy didn't get shot because his Glock "magically" went off, it can't. This gun went off either because his holster got caught up in the trigger guard or his white undershirt did.

With that said though and moving on, I carry a g43 1-2 o'clock frequently, it's never been in my way, feels great, and I have no problems sitting down with it pointed at an artery. The gun's just not going to fire because I'm not doing stupid shit with it- I wake up, check retention, press check for a round, and slip the whole thing iwb. When I do this I know there's nothing that can depress the trigger safety, nothing that can pull back the trigger, and even if some magic juju happened I know there's a working FPB. Glock 43 feels great, I have a VP9 that I love but f*** the slide is just too long to sit with- I have to slide the gun to 3 or 4 when I sit down to be remotely comfortable and when I do it looks like my back is happy to see you.
 

drgrant

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I'd like one example of a modern firearm's safety getting flipped off without a finger doing it AND then the trigger getting pulled without a finger involvement. I have glock 26 and the trigger pull is not long and it's 5 lbs. There are examples of glocks trigger getting pulled without a finger.


Not enough data/background on this incident, frankly, and claiming that a glock "can just go off in a holster" is alarmist, at best. It's pretty obvious either the guy has a bad holster or something got stuck in there. Back when Dean Speir had his website up he used to cover stuff like this and it always involved some huge operator or equipment failure. One guy holstered his glock with a lanyard from his raincoat jammed into the holster; when he sat down the lanyard keeper tensed up and pulled the trigger, basically a massive failure on the part of the guy with the gun.

I've carried glocks on and off for over a decade now, and when I started it was with 7 dollar foam holsters, lmao. It's not a problem if you VET YOUR GEAR and
circumstances. And practice with it, unloaded.

Also most glocks are more than a 5 lb pull, btw. I rarely if ever see one break 5 without at least a disconnector change and some polishing. Even my G19 with the oem minus
connector in it still meters out at 4.95 lb. And it's not "long" but it sure as hell isn't short either.

If you want to see short, light pull and shit your pants, then get a Steyr M9 and we'll talk about short. That is literally the only striker fired gun that kinda scares me a bit... [laugh]

-Mike
 

Buck F

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It took me a while to get comfortable carrying striker fire AIWB. I bought a DA/SA Hammer Fire w/ a decocker and began appendix carry that way (always decocked). Eventually after reading/researching it enough, I decided I'd go w/ a modern striker fired gun for AIWB in a kydex holster. I was mostly worried about sitting and putting too much pressure on the gun or an impact in a car w/ the seatbelt hitting making it go off (I know, I know...). I'm not a lean guy although not fat either, stocky muscular w/ a little extra but not a major overhang, and AIWB suits me fine. I was never worried about the hug contact when IWB @ 4-5 o'clock (in fact, it happened once) but I did snag the gun on armrests once or twice when IWB on the strong side. I also didn't like that people to my side/behind me might see something if I printed or the shirt went up, particularly in the Summer. I like everything in front of me, being able to see those who can see me, plus it's easier to defend the gun AIWB. I always holster w/ the gun in the holster. That being said, I totally respect the guys who aren't comfortable with it, it took me some time to get there myself.
 

Dennis in MA

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Betting bend-over guy had his shirt tucked into his holster.

YES, snubbies are great appendix guns - because the trigger is hard to pull and it's got lots-of-gun, not much grip. Disappears easier. But it's only 5 rds.
 

Gasgunner

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True.

Another is if you are the guy who has 12 pair of the same brand pants/belt and only wear that. If you change it up or do athletic activities. It’s hard to carry only one way all the time.

Funny you mention that. I maintain a “continuity of pants”. I wear Carhartt work pants every day and the denim version on the weekends. My phone and keys always go in the same pockets and my holster is always clipped behind the same belt loop. I wear two different gun belts but everything else resides in the same positions. IWB right behind my hip bone with a forward cant works best for me. I’m in construction and I can move or bend in any direction and it doesn’t print.
 

Glockster30

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AIWB is a trend that will go the way of the shoulder holster. Hey guys, remember back in the teens when we thought it was a good idea to carry so that our gun pointed at our femoral artery every time we sat down. Oh man, what were we thinking??
If you use CCW, rather than just saying gun, or carry gun, you are a prime candidate for AIWB carry.

AIWB is not a modern trend as depicted in the attached Civil War pic that shows 3 revolvers carried by the soldier. It's not exactly AIWB, but it still applies to appendix carry. It's also a testament to "high capacity" carry back in the day. [laugh]

We can see only 2 of the 3 revolver triggers that are in the rearward or fired position meaning that he would have needed to cock the hammer for his next shot. It's also difficult to see if there are any caps on the nipples. However, what we don't know is if this was how he normally carried or was it just done for the photo. My guess is that this would be "normal" for these types of firearms carried then.

carry-in-waistband-appendix-8.jpg


Debunking the Myths of Appendix Carry - Guns and Ammo
 

Racenet

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And while I'm mentioning it, the proper way to put on any holster is to put the gun in the holster first while pointed in a safe direction, then put the holster on.

Or just leave the gun in the holster to begin with. When I disarm, the whole package comes off and gets placed on the table, in the same location, each and every time. It is always done this way, without fail. Never had any single issue in almost 40 years.
 
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