Anyone own a IWI Tavor TS-12 shotgun? Some weird behavior with ammo cycling

[DieselSmoke88]

well, here is where the law doesnt describe the tavor:

(iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds;

This magazine has 5 rounds in each tube. With a reload needed to chamber a round from the next tube once you run out.

Like I said, this isnt a cylinder, or tube in excess of 5 rounds.

But yeah, the danger comes not from how the law is written, but how the law could be interpreted and politicized in MA to persecute firearms owners.

 

[greencobra]

View: https://youtu.be/UAB9qMeWHPI

 

[drgrant]

The scary thing is that the OP bought it from someone. There are any number of dealers out there who don't get it. I have customers with 1301s with 6+ round tubes (or stoeger semi autos or fn semi autos, etc). While 6+ tubes on pump are ok because of the oddity of how Large Capacity Weapon is defined, they are felonies on semi-auto shotguns. People say "no pistol grip" so it is legal. "No pistol grip" so it is not an assault weapon so you are only possessing one felony and not two. You cannot have any semi-auto shotgun with more than 5 round capacity (5+1 in the chamber). LOTS of dealers don't get that

There are lots of MA shops that pretty much take full advantage of the fact that tube fed shotguns are basically prosecutorially ignored in MA, regardless of capacity or operating system.

 

[DieselSmoke88]

I like mine, only things I dont like are the wonky magazine when the tube doesnt line up exactly with the elevator. And the fact that some ammo with a slightly longer crimp doesnt let you use full capacity. I shortened a bunch of shells and re-crimped but its a lot of work. Save those for when you need full capacity I guess.
I measured it up with some calipers and you could probably fix this with ~15 - 25mm reduction in the fingers on the end of the mag tube but youd need a different spring to make that work properly. I might call IWI about that, Ill post back here if I get any info so others can find it.
disassembly is easy. cleaning the gas piston and the bolt has good access.
I put a sig romeo on it. Have not tried shooting distance with slugs yet to see how it performs.

 

[drgrant]

I would be very interested in an ATF opinion letter on those shotguns.

ATF doesn't bother with testing "flash hiders" anymore, I doubt they would touch stale AWB issues unless it's linked to importation laws etc. It might be possible to get them to deem it as this or that if it's framed as an importation/922R issue but the old AWB? Good luck.
ETA: there might be legacy shit laying around, though... so there's that...

 

[drgrant]

What's the MA law on a mag fed semi-auto shotgun???

That's actually less murky, over 5rds = no go. The gnomish mysticism largely evapoates with magazines. (Because regardless of shell length the capacity doesn't change. Whereas with tube autos a legal phantasm shit show exists due to variations in shell length. Basically old crippled no pistol grip Saigas w/5rd mags are legal, anything beyond that? Lol.... good luck.

 

[Frizzle Fry]

I would be very interested in an ATF opinion letter on those shotguns.

Wouldn't know where to start, but the rotating tubes semi was called an M96 and made by Crossfire (who later made that stupid pump 223/12ga hybrid) and the one with the flopping feedgate was made by Truvelo and was in a polymer stock marked Muzzelite. I want to say Eagle Arms was the magazine case.

ATF doesn't bother with testing "flash hiders" anymore, I doubt they would touch stale AWB issues unless it's linked to importation laws etc. It might be possible to get them to deem it as this or that if it's framed as an importation/922R issue but the old AWB? Good luck.
ETA: there might be legacy shit laying around, though... so there's that...

I would assume they are still floating around somewhere. Too pre-internet for me to find; it's hard to even find copies of much talked about ATF letters from the early digital era.

 

[richc]

That's actually less murky, over 5rds = no go. The gnomish mysticism largely evapoates with magazines. (Because regardless of shell length the capacity doesn't change. Whereas with tube autos a legal phantasm shit show exists due to variations in shell length. Basically old crippled no pistol grip Saigas w/5rd mags are legal, anything beyond that? Lol.... good luck.

I love my old, crippled Saiga! OK, I love my old, crippled Saigas... plural. Amazing guns for the money way back when.

 

[DrBurnsides]

Meh.

You want a "tactical shotgun?" Get a real one.

View attachment 510403

Drool. Yes please.

 

[magoo]

Hickok45 had a hard time with that shotgun

 

[Thirwell1216]

Still think the Vepr and Saigas are a better concept for a shotgun overall. Nice continuous fire. No having to keep cranking mags into place. The SMR 1216 was the original concept for what the Tavor shotgun is now. The SMR seems like a simpler gun...


View: https://youtu.be/mDdzvKi3yiE

 

[DieselSmoke88]

Hickok45 had a hard time with that shotgun

LOL Hes not the only one
I go to change mags and the tab slips into the detent thats supposed to line up the mag with the elevator and barrel.. but the round doesnt enter the elevator until I jiggle the magazine right and left to find the sweet spot? kinda hokey..
sometimes youll also do something that catches a round under the elevator and you have to take the tailstock apart to get the round out.
all in all, not really a dependable design if you are betting your life on it. I agree a drum or box mag is a lot better. this revolving magazine is all about legal BS and compact storage.
Love these large cap shotguns its a shame I cant store / shoot them here. When I move out of this pit, will be looking at other options like that saiga-12.

That SRM might be legally a bit different than the tavor here in MA because the magazine is detachable, but I do like the design

 

[magoo]

LOL Hes not the only one
I go to change mags and the tab slips into the detent thats supposed to line up the mag with the elevator and barrel.. but the round doesnt enter the elevator until I jiggle the magazine right and left to find the sweet spot? kinda hokey..
sometimes youll also do something that catches a round under the elevator and you have to take the tailstock apart to get the round out.
all in all, not really a dependable design if you are betting your life on it. I agree a drum or box mag is a lot better. this revolving magazine is all about legal BS and compact storage.
Love these large cap shotguns its a shame I cant store / shoot them here. When I move out of this pit, will be looking at other options like that saiga-12.

That SRM might be legally a bit different than the tavor here in MA because the magazine is detachable, but I do like the design

I miss my Saiga-12 I had it worked on bolt buffet trigger job ran slick

 

[DieselSmoke88]

I contacted IWI about the mag tube issue. Apparently theres no update for addressing ammo thats a little longer than normal. They dont have armorers or the ability to buy spare parts directly, so you have to send the firearm in for parts swap to retain the warranty. Kinda lame since I have tons of tools here and hate shipping stuff around.
Gonna look into getting another mag tube for it somehow, and modifying that so it has a little wiggle room for the longer ammo.
Could even fab something up from thin wall aluminum tubing, its really simple.
And no, not worried about this being a illegal capacity hack since even if I ran mini's in this thing it would not cycle at all. 20mm is not going to let you fit a 6th shell in this thing.