Anyone Know Where to Get Primers?

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Hey you're right. Let just not try to make profits and grow companies when the market grows and demand has outstripped supply.

Solid plan. Thanks for improving the world with your negative Nancy we can't do anything mentality.
 
xtry51 said:
Hey you're right. Let just not try to make profits and grow companies when the market grows and demand has outstripped supply.

Solid plan. Thanks for improving the world with your negative Nancy we can't do anything mentality.
Click to expand...

I posted twice that Federal bought Remington's plant to make it operational again. That's solid growth - taking over your competitor's business on the cheap.
 
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xtry51 said:
Just watched. Full retard. "We're not going to.build a new factory because we want to utilize factories at full capacity and it would take years".

No shit Sherlock. Look around at demand and how cheap money is to loan. Now is the best time to build. You could increase capacity 100% and take over the market just by being the only one who actually have something to sell. You've now wasted almost an entire year of expansion potential.

These people really think we're going back to 2019?
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They don't have to build another factory when they just bought one, that's been basically idle for over a year. That sorta closes that
argument. Building a plant when you have one thats likely still way under capacity is kind of dumb, from a company POV.

"Should they build another one" not sure... like how big is the Remington plant, really? Do they have space at other facilities for expansion? Those are kind of the questions.... adding
another site is a little retarded, with the amount of resources vista already has under its tent.

Remember that this kind of peak demand will be stupid for awhile, but eventually it will come down off/away from the edge of the cliff, into something I would describe as "high, but manageable"
 
About 2/3/4/ weeks ago, either that same guy, or the c.e.o. of Federal did a similar video.
I'll paraphrase, but I'm pretty sure he goes on to say "Even if demand were to stop today, theres still a 2 year backlog".

Given that, the backlog would most likely end before the construction of a new plant would finish.

Gentlemen, its 2008 all over again with an extra dash of retard in it. And we all survived that.
 
Go start your own pigeon thread
TrashcanDan said:
About 2/3/4/ weeks ago, either that same guy, or the c.e.o. of Federal did a similar video.
I'll paraphrase, but I'm pretty sure he goes on to say "Even if demand were to stop today, theres still a 2 year backlog".

Given that, the backlog would most likely end before the construction of a new plant would finish.

Gentlemen, its 2008 all over again with an extra dash of retard in it. And we all survived that.
Click to expand...

That guy is the President of Federal... and CCI... and Remington Ammo... and...
 
xtry51 said:
Just watched. Full retard. "We're not going to.build a new factory because we want to utilize factories at full capacity and it would take years".

No shit Sherlock. Look around at demand and how cheap money is to loan. Now is the best time to build. You could increase capacity 100% and take over the market just by being the only one who actually have something to sell. You've now wasted almost an entire year of expansion potential.

These people really think we're going back to 2019?
Click to expand...

So why haven't you gotten a primer plant up and running? Just seems like if it were that much of a no-brainer you'd be all over it.
 
Emacs said:
So why haven't you gotten a primer plant up and running? Just seems like if it were that much of a no-brainer you'd be all over it.
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Really? I'm making an observation that capacity needs to increase if the customer base is going to increase. Why should I do something I'm not an expert in? Does not being an expert mean I am wrong about demand or the fact MILLIONS of potential new customers will abandon guns simply because there is nothing for them to buy, or they can't afford it?

We should be encouraging any growth is firearms. This shortage is worse than any other pointing to a distinct lack of production bandwidth to meet need. JIT manufacturing is ruining the world.

If ammo manufacturers won't grow now, WHEN THE f*** WILL THEY?
 
xtry51 said:
Really? I'm making an observation that capacity needs to increase if the customer base is going to increase. Why should I do something I'm not an expert in? Does not being an expert mean I am wrong about demand or the fact MILLIONS of potential new customers will abandon guns simply because there is nothing for them to buy, or they can't afford it?

We should be encouraging any growth is firearms. This shortage is worse than any other pointing to a distinct lack of production bandwidth to meet need. JIT manufacturing is ruining the world.

If ammo manufacturers won't grow now, WHEN THE f*** WILL THEY?
Click to expand...

The point is the people who own and operate ammo/component manufacturing plants probably know their business better than you know their business.
 
I just love when people assume someone else is smarter or more knowledgeable than I am. Just makes me warm and fuzzy inside when ignorance is in full bloom with a "don't question the masters, they know better than you" statement.

Far be it for someone to have an idea right?
 
xtry51 said:
Really? I'm making an observation that capacity needs to increase if the customer base is going to increase. Why should I do something I'm not an expert in? Does not being an expert mean I am wrong about demand or the fact MILLIONS of potential new customers will abandon guns simply because there is nothing for them to buy, or they can't afford it?

We should be encouraging any growth is firearms. This shortage is worse than any other pointing to a distinct lack of production bandwidth to meet need. JIT manufacturing is ruining the world.

If ammo manufacturers won't grow now, WHEN THE f*** WILL THEY?
Click to expand...
Let’s be honest though the base increased is largely illusory. I think this salvo is going to be the largest ever though so I think you have a point there but even like I said in the other thread you get 10 million new shooters how many of those are going to crap out.... probably 80% of them! most of that shit is going to end up in closet unused and unfired just like the last three or four times. Manufacturers are wary because they’ve seen this movie before and that’s how we got to the trump slump.... for example I didn’t even really think that 9 mm for 160 bucks a case was even possible.... And in order to get there the market had to tank pretty bad. Industry is not gonna want to set themselves up for perpetual tanking like that. It’s no different than the oil companies not exploiting all the resources that they have in front of them to keep the price from plummeting too far....

Without going into gory details let me put it this way... I know a whole bunch of people who want guns and ammo, but they always asking me for sources because they are too f***ing lazy to even go find it themselves what makes you think that they’re actually going to go shooting on the reg after they get the stuff? LOL. I have some friends with guns who haven’t shot them in years..... Yeah there are plenty of other people who actually will stay but is that enough to justify building a whole bunch of ammo plants that’s kind of the question....I think some permanent growth is justified but it’s difficult to know what that number actually is....
 
bigblue said:
Can we get back to primer availability now? Mike?
Click to expand...
It's all related to ammo plants though nobody is going to bother opening up a facility only to produce primers..... the "priming house/floor" is probably the most sensitive part of the operation.... from both a worker safety aspect and otherwise.... (if you make shit primers that aren't reliable, talk about liability!) I would be interested to know how much it cost Hornady to get into that.... I know for many years they were using somebody else's primers...
 
drgrant said:
Let’s be honest though the base increased is largely illusory. I think this salvo is going to be the largest ever though so I think you have a point there but even like I said in the other thread you get 10 million new shooters how many of those are going to crap out.... probably 80% of them! most of that shit is going to end up in closet unused and unfired just like the last three or four times. Manufacturers are wary because they’ve seen this movie before and that’s how we got to the trump slump.... for example I didn’t even really think that 9 mm for 160 bucks a case was even possible.... And in order to get there the market had to tank pretty bad. Industry is not gonna want to set themselves up for perpetual tanking like that. It’s no different than the oil companies not exploiting all the resources that they have in front of them to keep the price from plummeting too far....

Without going into gory details let me put it this way... I know a whole bunch of people who want guns and ammo, but they always asking me for sources because they are too f***ing lazy to even go find it themselves what makes you think that they’re actually going to go shooting on the reg after they get the stuff? LOL. I have some friends with guns who haven’t shot them in years..... Yeah there are plenty of other people who actually will stay but is that enough to justify building a whole bunch of ammo plants that’s kind of the question....I think some permanent growth is justified but it’s difficult to know what that number actually is....
Click to expand...
I try and imagine what it would be like to be an executive at one of these manufacturers. Based on past experience and the frequent cycles seen in the past I would not invest in new plants to meet today's demand either. If they did then in six months or a year demand would dry up and that capital expenditure would turn out to be a very bad idea. So much so that they now declare bankruptcy and go out of business altogether.

I think most intelligent people realize that the demand for guns, ammo, reloading supplies today is not being driven by a rational or consistent need for those things. People are hoarding based on current events. Once that perceived threat, fear, or whatever, is gone demand will not just reduce it will fall off a cliff. A lot of people are going to have a stockpile of inventory sitting in their basements for decades collecting dust.
 
Emacs said:
No, my position is that they're following the profit-maximizing strategy.
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So you also missed the economic class where profit on commodities is maximized by having products for all your customers? Because you're not maximizing profit on a commodity by having millions of customers unable to buy it.
 
xtry51 said:
So you also missed the economic class where profit on commodities is maximized by having products for all your customers? Because you're not maximizing profit on a commodity by having millions of customers unable to buy it.
Click to expand...
It's more complex than that. The shortage allows for price increases, so as you add more to the supply curve, price decreases and you might even have price competition between vendors. Add in the risk to service those additional customers (who will not fund your idle machinery or severance benefits once demand recedes to normal), and it may just be too expensive to court those additional customers.
 
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