Anyone ever have dispute with a gunsmith?

[Pants]

Mike, I get what you are saying and yeah, my post is a little lengthy but I left NOTHING out, other than the gun and the gunsmith. I'm just really frustrated with the whole situation. I tried to be polite and honest with the guy in private and it garnered no response. It was almost like if he ignores me I'll just go away.

I think the needle was pretty easy to spot - I asked for work do be done and it wasn't completed. Bottom line. If couldn't be done, I wish I would have been told that. He's the gunsmith - not me. I think it was total miscommunication from the get go. I just didn't like the response I got from him when I asked about it. The people who have read it were all taken a back. I wasn't expecting that reply.

Also, I'm not sure what difference it makes whether I got the parts or he got the parts - they're all coming from the same place.

 

[Cuz]

Until you named the gunsmith, I would have bet my house it was the one in N. Attleboro...


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[Asaltweapon]

I have just a few brief comments.

A few years ago I had a rear sight problem on my own custom Series 70 in that the elevation screw stripped out of the base for no reason other than age. I got the gun back in the early 80's. Anyway I sent the slide to a smith whose name I don't even recall and he "repaired it". During the first mag it blew apart again. At very close inspection the threads were pulled out of the base. Pissed off? Oh ya, I sure was. I could have put the screw back into the hole myself. In any event I called Wichita and ordered a new sight and installed it myself. Should have done it that way in the first place. Lesson learned.

I do think that Mike's post stating that he would not supply the parts himself is dead on. By playing middle man in this you placed yourself into a bad spot IMO. If the parts are wrong or don't fit right who's to blame? Greg? I don't think so as he didn't buy them. You did. What could you have possibly saved in funds supplying the parts yourself?

I didn't see if you had a face to face with him to go over the build. If so it should have been followed up with some sort of correspondence or agreement on what he was going to do for you for XXXX $$$$.

I'm not sticking my neck out for Greg. His pictures speak volumes. Some day when I have a grand to blow I will have my Colt 1911 done again with later stuff and work that was not available back when mine was done.

I kind of assumed that when he wrote Wilson he was talking about a 1911. It would have been better if he spelled it out from the start.

 

[lowbuckbob]

Until you named the gunsmith, I would have bet my house it was the one in N. Attleboro...


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Why would you assume that? I have always had top notch experiences with the gunsmith in N. Attleboro and recommend him to anyone and everyone.

 

[drgrant]

Mike, I get what you are saying and yeah, my post is a little lengthy but I left NOTHING out, other than the gun and the gunsmith. I'm just really frustrated with the whole situation. I tried to be polite and honest with the guy in private and it garnered no response. It was almost like if he ignores me I'll just go away.

I think the needle was pretty easy to spot - I asked for work do be done and it wasn't completed. Bottom line. If couldn't be done, I wish I would have been told that. He's the gunsmith - not me. I think it was total miscommunication from the get go. I just didn't like the response I got from him when I asked about it. The people who have read it were all taken a back. I wasn't expecting that reply.

I mostly understand now, this is about a botched sight install. You went and picked up the gun without even looking at it?

I'm not blaming you here for anything, FWIW, but I've found that having awkward, unclean interactions with gunsmiths or vendors etc. will make any problem worse. Hell I am getting some minor service done on my car tomrorow and you know what I'm doing... I'm writing up a SIMPLE note describing the work to be done so that nothing gets forgotten. I like giving people things on a silver platter so that I don't have to burden them with a phone call or vice versa. (I dunno about gunsmiths, but I know with computers telephone calls for service are about the most inefficient, time sink, time wasting things imaginable. (in either direction).

Also, I'm not sure what difference it makes whether I got the parts or he got the parts - they're all coming from the same place.

It might not, but it makes for a "bad look". EG- you gave the guy some parts, asked them to install them, and they ended up sucking or being wrong in actual use. Most of the time theres this tendency where installer will assume that because you brought the parts, you've done all the homework already. I usually defer to the gunsmiths preferences on that kind of thing or their expertise at least. That's the whole reason I'm going to a smith instead of doing it myself.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

Why would you assume that? I have always had top notch experiences with the gunsmith in N. Attleboro and recommend him to anyone and everyone.

He's very polarizing, to put it mildly. Many swear by him. Others want to swear AT him.

-Mike

 

[M1911]

Why would you assume that? I have always had top notch experiences with the gunsmith in N. Attleboro and recommend him to anyone and everyone.

I've had good experiences with Greg Derr and a not so good experience with the gunsmith in N. Attleboro.

Everyone screws up now and then.

When I had Greg Derr work on my 1911s, I did not provide parts to him. I told him what sights I wanted, but he sourced them. For the other parts, like beavertail safeties, thumb safeties, disconnectors, triggers, extractors, etc., I told him what style I wanted and he told me which parts he preferred. I wouldn't know the advantages/disadvantages of an Ed Brown extractor versus a Wilson -- that's what I'm paying him for.

 

[teaser452]

On purpose? To deliberately remove context to make your post harder to process?







When you do stuff like that people will take a jaundiced view of your post. It's like saying a body shop did a shitty job on your car but you omitted the fact that it's a Ford Pinto and it was involved in a 10 car pileup.

Also, if you communicated with him like the way you wrote your first post, I'm not surprised that you had problems being satisfied. I'm not trying to be a dick here, just that I read it about 4 times and finding the crux of the issue was like trying to find a needle in a haystack. so let me get this straight, you have a problem with some work the guy did, some of which involved parts you provided (and not him) and you're complaining because.... it just is bad and you don't want to make waves with the guy, so instead, you decided to post about it on the internet as though it would somehow magically fix it? Maybe I'm confused. BTW I don't have any real skin in the game here.... it's just that I've seen this movie before and I know how it usually ends. Communication issues occur and one bad tolerance stacks into another and then bad things happen. I have used Greg's services in the past to do some work and haven't had any issues, but I never asked him to do anything fancy, either.

I read the post over and over again and my gut reaction that keeps coming back is "we're not being told something here, something is being omitted".

Maybe I'm different though, usually if something is that big of a deal I print out a hard copy of the stuff I want done with the gun, what I want on it for sights, etc. I also usually let the gunsmith procure that stuff unless told otherwise, makes my life a lot easier because if there is a part conflict it will get resolved without me having to be involved, etc. I have had stuff go off the rails with smiths before but usually I bring the gun back and they fix it and everyone is happy. The only "really bad" gun smithing experiences I've had are with people not in the business anymore.

-Mike

yup. This.

Agree on the vague story. That's starts it out as pretty sketchy.

And then when you elaborated on the story I lost more confidence. A used 1911 being totally rebuilt? I'm no gunsmith but why not spend the money and get a new one?

I don't know the gunsmith at all. But there has to be more to this story. I'd like to hear the gunsmith's story.

Not saying you're wrong. You deserve a gun that runs properly, but as Mike says, I suspect a communication issue.

 

[Pants]

Asaltweapon, I totally get your point too about the parts - but that's not the issue here. I just wanted to give some back story of how this all came to be.

One very interesting thing that came up in this thread was Greg advising not to cerakote the controls to one customer and then cerakoting them for another customer. That doesn't make any sense.

If the slide stop that I supplied from 10-8 didn't work because I purchased it and not him, then yeah, I guess that's on me. He fitted it to the gun though, not me. He said it would work fine, not me. The parts aren't the issue here though.

Like I stated before - I would GLADLY, HAPPILY, pay whatever to fix the gun. I didn't go down there demanding it to be fixed at no charge, he offered that.

I didn't like the sight set up on the gun and wanted to change it - which I would also gladly pay for. When I asked why he didn't change out the front sight, he dismissed it as me not knowing anything and me wanting a new "look". If he gave me a heads up about the front sight not fitting, I would have told him to forget doing the sights all together. That's all!

 

[rep308]

The OP has his issues that he needs to work out

Greg built me the custom 1911 of my dreams. It works well, has everything I wanted and he was easy and fun to work with.

OP I hope it works out for you.

 

[Pants]

I told him what sights I wanted, but he sourced them..

This. We agreed on a Trijicon Orange Dot. I got an XS Big Dot instead.

 

[M1911]

This. We agreed on a Trijicon Orange Dot. I got an XS Big Dot instead.

I gave him a list of what I wanted, to avoid such mistakes.

 

[Pants]

Not saying you're wrong. You deserve a gun that runs properly, but as Mike says, I suspect a communication issue.

This is a total communication issue. When I mentioned that to him, he went radio silent. I wasn't pointing any fingers at him or being rude or anything. I spent a lot of money on this gun and wish I hadn't.

- - - Updated - - -

I gave him a list of what I wanted, to avoid such mistakes.

He wrote everything down as we talked about it. Like I said, not sure where this went south.

 

[Rockrivr1]

I didn't like the sight set up on the gun and wanted to change it - which I would also gladly pay for. When I asked why he didn't change out the front sight, he dismissed it as me not knowing anything and me wanting a new "look". If he gave me a heads up about the front sight not fitting, I would have told him to forget doing the sights all together. That's all!

One quick question on this. When you picked the gun back up did he give you the new front site back that didn't fit or did he keep it? If he kept it then I would also be a little ticked off when I realized it wasn't installed.

 

[jasons]

Where's Judge Wapner when we need him?

 

[Pants]

One quick question on this. When you picked the gun back up did he give you the new front site back that didn't fit or did he keep it? If he kept it then I would also be a little ticked off when I realized it wasn't installed.

Yes. It was in all the parts. That's when I noticed that he didn't change out the sight. Which is fine, just wish I got a heads up and I could return both front and rear.

I didn't start this thread to bash on Greg or cause problems. I just wanted to share an experience. I've been really bothered by it.

 

[Realtor MA]

I just welded the front sight on my 1918 Colt 1911 to the slide. That stays put. Jack.

Now you can literally put the 'bead' on your target.

 

[drgrant]

If the slide stop that I supplied from 10-8 didn't work because I purchased it and not him, then yeah, I guess that's on me. He fitted it to the gun though, not me. He said it would work fine, not me. The parts aren't the issue here though.

This is getting better and better... my belly is hurting at this point...

Not sure why but this thread reminds me of this....



(play both of these at once for the correct effect)




I wish I could figure this stuff out, I'd be a billionaire. Social interactions are an art, but when they fail dramatically there's usually
some kind of like gordian knot of things that stacked incorrectly that cause both parties to freeze, and then constipate, sort of.

Humor aside, I hope you get your gun fixed. You might want to try a different gunsmith.

-Mike

 

[dooshorama]

Long story short

that was the short version?

I read it about 4 times and finding the crux of the issue was like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

i thought it was just me. i read it twice.

so pants,
it seems that some of your grief is regarding what he should have done. i don't think there's anything you can do about that now, other than getting an apology? maybe it would help if you list what you'd like to be done going forward?

my understanding is that he's overcharged you for service (cerakote) not provided?
that could be resolved in small claims court if the guy is not willing to work with you, no?

i don't know who this guy is. i don't think his work quality is relevant here. it seems like his attitude and willingness to resolve a situation is questioned by the OP.

 

[Pants]

that was the short version?


i thought it was just me. i read it twice.

so pants,
it seems that some of your grief is regarding what he should have done. i don't think there's anything you can do about that now, other than getting an apology? maybe it would help if you list what you'd like to be done going forward?

my understanding is that he's overcharged you for service (cerakote) not provided?
that could be resolved in small claims court if the guy is not willing to work with you, no?

i don't know who this guy is. i don't think his work quality is relevant here. it seems like his attitude and willingness to resolve a situation is questioned by the OP.

Haha not so short version.

Bingo - you hit the nail on the head. I wouldn't even waste the time taking this to a court for such a small amount. This whole thread (that I started) as given me a headache. Sorry everyone! lol

 

[MaxStravinsky]

When I read the name of the gunsmith I actually said 'Wow!' out loud. He did a trigger job for me and it was fine. This is the first time I ever heard anything negative about him. But then, nobody's perfect.

 

[TayNinh_66]

See Something Say Something. Translation: Open the box and check next time.

I'm a little confused about what is on the pistol now. I believe you are saying you have a Trijicon Orange rear and an XS Big Dot Orange front.
And I believe you are saying Greg removed the previous XS Big Dot from the rear and put it in the parts bag.
Is the pistol shootable as is? I don't believe Greg would send a gun out with incompatible front and rear sights.

You have several choices. 1) Sell it. 2) Shoot it as is. 3) Buy some Meprolights and return the Trijicons if dist. allows returns. (Find another gunsmith for this. Clearly you're not happy with Greg)

Finger pointing at this point isn't going to solve your problem.

 

[Cuz]

Why would you assume that? I have always had top notch experiences with the gunsmith in N. Attleboro and recommend him to anyone and everyone.

I guess your experiences were the polar opposite of my last three experiences with him. He almost singlehandedly changed me from a 1911 shooter to a Glock shooter so I could do my own "Gunsmithing".


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[dcmdon]

Every once in a while the planets align perfectly horribly.

You have a bit of bad communication by the honest well meaning customer.
And maybe a bit of bad communication by an honest well meaning craftsman.

Throw in a bit of bad luck and maybe some incorrect assumptions, and things can get sideways pretty quick.

10 guys say Pants is a great guy.
10 guys say that Derr is the greatest gunsmith since Bill Ruger (sr).

But it doesn't matter. That transaction went bad. Between two good people. It happens.

Don

 

[dcmdon]

One other thing.

I'm a project manager by profession. Part of my job is to make sure that the guys who build the stuff actually build what the customer expects.

Nobody wins when people's expectations are out of whack. I live and die by managing people's expectations.

So when I have a gunsmith massage a gun for me, I do it ALL in writing. And then I restate things again. So there can be NO mistaking what is expected.

If I have a phone conversation about the job and its progress along with any possible changes, I IMMEDIATELY follow up the call with an email restating the conversation and asking him to contact me if his recollection of the conversation was any different than mine.

Some of these jobs have been pretty expensive jobs on very expensive guns. (In one case a $15,000 20 Ga Parker DHE that I was having done over for a friend who was dying of cancer by Larry DelGreggo, and wanted to hunt with it one last time)

Its all about leaving nothing to chance. NO assumptions. No detail unarticulated.

 

[Smokewagon]

When I read the name of the gunsmith I actually said 'Wow!' out loud. He did a trigger job for me and it was fine. This is the first time I ever heard anything negative about him. But then, nobody's perfect.

Same here. Nothing but outstanding work by him on mine as well as my wife's firearms. I guess anyone can have a bad day/job but I was surprised as well.

 

[Greg Derr]

Sorry I just got wind of this thread. First, the client purchased sights and brought them to the shop for install because he did not like the sight picture he had originally asked for. OK. The front sight was the wrong size he was told this,again ,he bought the wrong front sight. As for Cerakoting parts, yes the coating chipped off, I recoated the parts free. The client was charged only for a sight swap (1) for which he provided and the install of a new Wilson thumb safety which had a lower paddle, once again a part he provided. I back all my work 100% period, I even try to work with clients who make mistakes as this fellow did. Funny part is that on one hand he's telling me this is the best gun he ever shot and then calling me an ass behind my back. Man up and grow a pair.

 

[slap shot]

Until you named the gunsmith, I would have bet my house it was the one in N. Attleboro...


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Lol at the collateral damage in this thread.

Glad there weren't any personal attacks or character assassinations. oops, too slow

 

[Narrowback]

Restore the original post. Deleting it and saying everything is OK now only makes you sound like a flaming douche. Especially after you have named the gunsmith.

 

[drgrant]

Restore the original post. Deleting it and saying everything is OK now only makes you sound like a flaming douche. Especially after you have named the gunsmith.

He got quoted 48 times so there's really nothing to restore... and Greg came here and posted his side... I'd say it's a fair thread in that regard... not too often we hear both sides. I think any astute reader can formulate a conclusion.... I'm closing this, if Greg or the OP want me to reopen it just PM me.

-Mike