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Another VA Tech killing

Having a gun does not create, nor does having people armed around the commission of a crime make those individuals supermen or crime fighters. Look in Massachusetts alone, where a CCW holder responding to such a crime stops for a moment and second guesses just how much trouble he will get into, what the civil suit will be like, what the DA will think, does he have another gun for backup while that gun is confiscated as evidence, does he have to worry about repercussions for his family, does he have a leal magazine in the firearm.....

Guns aren't a magical band-aid, and as arms owners we do ourselves a disservice pretending its a magic band-aid for the evils of the world that occur on a daily basis.

--

This does look like some kind of lovers spat, seems to be a lot of rage there to do this. Hope she rests in peace, no one deserves that.
 
I don't understand. How is this possible? I thought they banned guns on campus after the last massacre. Oh wait...he used a knife. Well, they need to ban those too.
 
Running the risk of sounding like an internet commando... I'm pretty sure that if I were one of the 7 witnesses... witnessing someone beheading another with a kitchen knife... I would have done something. Even completely unarmed... I would have done something. Kicked the guy in the head... thrown chairs... attempt to actually restrain him if I thought I had a chance.

I was one of the crazy people who just had to watch one of those decapitation videos out of Iraq... ........because I just had to see what it was like. And let me tell you... It was the most sickening thing I've ever seen. It took MUCH longer than I thought to actually decapitate a human than I thought. It was also unbelievably frustrating as I knew that I could do nothing about what was happening in that video. And it was angering to realize the type of fundamentalists our nation has to fight.

There's just no way I could have stood there while this guy was decapitating the girl at VT and done nothing.

No.

Way.

/internet commando
 
terraformer said:
Given the minimum age for CCW is generally 21, the likelihood of a CCW being in that place at the right time is low. The argument for CCW on campus is only even remotely accurate for an active shooter and requires the CCW holder to actively seek out and engage the shooter. This is at current CCW rates. Today's incident is more about mace/OC or an attitude open to stepping in with what is at hand. A broom could have been enough. But again, students are trained to dial 911, not "self help".
Click to expand...

clinotus said:
Having a gun does not create, nor does having people armed around the commission of a crime make those individuals supermen or crime fighters. Look in Massachusetts alone, where a CCW holder responding to such a crime stops for a moment and second guesses just how much trouble he will get into, what the civil suit will be like, what the DA will think, does he have another gun for backup while that gun is confiscated as evidence, does he have to worry about repercussions for his family, does he have a leal magazine in the firearm.....

Guns aren't a magical band-aid, and as arms owners we do ourselves a disservice pretending its a magic band-aid for the evils of the world that occur on a daily basis.

--

This does look like some kind of lovers spat, seems to be a lot of rage there to do this. Hope she rests in peace, no one deserves that.
Click to expand...

Just a suggestion. I know that it's not a be all end all fix, but it could potentially stop people from getting killed.
 
terraformer said:
Given the minimum age for CCW is generally 21, the likelihood of a CCW being in that place at the right time is low. The argument for CCW on campus is only even remotely accurate for an active shooter and requires the CCW holder to actively seek out and engage the shooter. This is at current CCW rates. Today's incident is more about mace/OC or an attitude open to stepping in with what is at hand. A broom could have been enough. But again, students are trained to dial 911, not "self help".
Click to expand...

This happened in an area designated for graduate students, apparently.

They said Xin Yang, a 22-year-old graduate student from Beijing, arrived Jan. 8 to begin her studies in accounting at the Pamplin College of Business. She lived in the graduate life center.

Haiyang Zhu, 25, a graduate student from China, was charged late Wednesday with first-degree murder and is being held without bond. He is a Ph.D. graduate student majoring in agricultural and applied economics. He began his studies at Virginia Tech at the start of the 2008 fall semester. Tech officials said the victim and suspect knew each other and Yang listed Zhu as an emergency contact.
Click to expand...
 
Hanwei said:
Running the risk of sounding like an internet commando... I'm pretty sure that if I were one of the 7 witnesses... witnessing someone beheading another with a kitchen knife... I would have done something. Even completely unarmed... I would have done something. Kicked the guy in the head... thrown chairs... attempt to actually restrain him if I thought I had a chance.

I was one of the crazy people who just had to watch one of those decapitation videos out of Iraq... ........because I just had to see what it was like. And let me tell you... It was the most sickening thing I've ever seen. It took MUCH longer than I thought to actually decapitate a human than I thought. It was also unbelievably frustrating as I knew that I could do nothing about what was happening in that video. And it was angering to realize the type of fundamentalists our nation has to fight.

There's just no way I could have stood there while this guy was decapitating the girl at VT and done nothing.

No.

Way.

/internet commando
Click to expand...

Agreed. A good chair or even beer bottle to the back of his head would have ended it.
 
He had plenty of time to sever the head. The witnesses had plenty of time to stop him after he started - even if she was already dead.

At the minimum, I would have hit him with a chair to make him stop (if nothing else was available).
 
I heard it on the news this AM and was waiting for the gun part... Thankfully no gun, but sadly the ending was the same...

So you CAN kill without a gun? Huh, who knew... I listen to the news often and thought only guns killed?

Lets say I'm on campus that day for whatever reason and decided to carry (no reason, just to lazy to leave it on the car or figured no one would know) and I saw this guy stabing her I'd be in a tough spot, I could draw and shoot him, stop the crime and (possibly) save her life or call 911... Now if I shoot him and save her, I'm going to jail for a variety of crimes (carry on school etc) or walk past dial 911, save MY a$$ and let her die so I dont get in trouble... Sucky choice huh?

Laws suck...

School causes violence, not guns ;)
 
Hanwei said:
Running the risk of sounding like an internet commando... I'm pretty sure that if I were one of the 7 witnesses... witnessing someone beheading another with a kitchen knife... I would have done something. Even completely unarmed... I would have done something. Kicked the guy in the head... thrown chairs... attempt to actually restrain him if I thought I had a chance.

I was one of the crazy people who just had to watch one of those decapitation videos out of Iraq... ........because I just had to see what it was like. And let me tell you... It was the most sickening thing I've ever seen. It took MUCH longer than I thought to actually decapitate a human than I thought. It was also unbelievably frustrating as I knew that I could do nothing about what was happening in that video. And it was angering to realize the type of fundamentalists our nation has to fight.

There's just no way I could have stood there while this guy was decapitating the girl at VT and done nothing.

No.

Way.

/internet commando
Click to expand...

+1 Someone should have tried something.
 
Garys said:
Plus she wasn't a pretty blond co-ed. That always gets on the national news.
Click to expand...

+1.... If it was a boy that got lost in Aruba instead of Holloway, do you think there would have even been more than a week of press coverage? [thinking]

Apparently to the media anyone who is not a "Beautiful Person" whether in terms of looks or background, isn't newsworthy.


-Mike
 
chris_1001 said:
Lets say I'm on campus that day for whatever reason and decided to carry (no reason, just to lazy to leave it on the car or figured no one would know) and I saw this guy stabing her I'd be in a tough spot, I could draw and shoot him, stop the crime and (possibly) save her life or call 911... Now if I shoot him and save her, I'm going to jail for a variety of crimes (carry on school etc)
Click to expand...

Depends on the state. If it was a matter of just "school rules" and not law that changes things considerably.... but I don't think I could just stand there and do nothing regardless- I don't think I'd be able to live with myself after that.

Someone is gonna say "BBBUT you would get expelled!!!" If that's the case, then so be it. I'd then go on a jihad of sorts to make the school look as bad as possible for their shitty decision to not allow one student to defend another.


-Mike
 
I think saying that we would all "do something" is pretty ballsy. Yes- as adult men (for the most part) who have at least some level of knowledge about weapons/self defense (I'm guessing at least more than the average person); we can say that. But this was the grad-school dorm. Basically occupied by those who didn't want to live off-campus (which by junior year is pretty much the norm for undergrads at tech and the norm for most grad students). So my guess is the housing is largely occupied by new to the US foreign students and probably *mostly* female. Do we really expect these folks to have the same level of response we would?

I'm not saying it wouldn't have been great if someone had stepped in and dropped him...but in that moment of horror- you need to take into consideration who the people were. They were not the former military, law enforcement, defense enthusiasts we are...

Just a thought.

Now if this was the Corps of Cadets dorm, I'd be much more suprised.
 
+1 Two of my closest friends were foreign grad students at UMass when I was there. Highly educated and motivated.

vellnueve said:
Some of the finest students/persons I knew/know in college/grad school were/are foreign students, who easily deserved spots in their respective class over a lot of kids who have no idea what it means to 1) be able to go to college 2) be American 3) actually study.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Throw SOMETHING at the dude.
Chocolate Croissant? Those things sit in your stomach like a brick. You may as well use it like one.

Sad story.
 
I think it is safe to say that ALL colleges need to rethink their security and LE involvement on campus.

I live on the campus of a college in SE Mass right now; and I could (but don't) easily carry on campus without alerting any of the LE or security staff on campus. There are buildings that anyone can walk into without so much as a camera seeing them. I talk to the LEO's on campus all the time and at one point one particular officer was telling me about one of the groups on campus who host dances all the time. The dances are open to anyone as long as they are over 18 (including the public). Now he goes on to tell me about how the cruisers sit in one parking lot and watch all of the people go to the dance from their cars. He says they have made numerous arrests on drug and weapons charges (knives). This is a direct quote "I know there have been guns that have come through here; we haven't found any yet and I can't prove it; but there definitely have been guns that have come through." They have since limited the dances to college students with ID only.

I think its time that the administration (on ALL CAMPUSES) realizes that violence on campus is a very real danger that cannot be stopped by a quick mental health test or a watch group. There needs to be security in the buildings at all times. I realize the cost of providing the security would be incredibly high; however it is very much worth it to save a life. Even if there was a guard with a baton or OC; they had a greater opportunity to stop this crime than 7 witnesses (only 2 dialed 911).
 
billyd1111 said:
I think it is safe to say that ALL colleges need to rethink their security and LE involvement on campus.

I live on the campus of a college in SE Mass right now; and I could (but don't) easily carry on campus without alerting any of the LE or security staff on campus. There are buildings that anyone can walk into without so much as a camera seeing them. I talk to the LEO's on campus all the time and at one point one particular officer was telling me about one of the groups on campus who host dances all the time. The dances are open to anyone as long as they are over 18 (including the public). Now he goes on to tell me about how the cruisers sit in one parking lot and watch all of the people go to the dance from their cars. He says they have made numerous arrests on drug and weapons charges (knives). This is a direct quote "I know there have been guns that have come through here; we haven't found any yet and I can't prove it; but there definitely have been guns that have come through." They have since limited the dances to college students with ID only.

I think its time that the administration (on ALL CAMPUSES) realizes that violence on campus is a very real danger that cannot be stopped by a quick mental health test or a watch group. There needs to be security in the buildings at all times. I realize the cost of providing the security would be incredibly high; however it is very much worth it to save a life. Even if there was a guard with a baton or OC; they had a greater opportunity to stop this crime than 7 witnesses (only 2 dialed 911).
Click to expand...

I disagree. Not more guards, more LEOs, more locked buildings. Rather more sheeple trained to be active participants to stop the attacker. Train them to fight back. Everything can be a weapon in a classroom or cafeteria. Teach the students that their biggest asset to defend themselves is their BRAINS.

And, do away with all gun-free zones.
 
billyd1111 said:
I
I think its time that the administration (on ALL CAMPUSES) realizes that violence on campus is a very real danger that cannot be stopped by a quick mental health test or a watch group. There needs to be security in the buildings at all times. I realize the cost of providing the security would be incredibly high; however it is very much worth it to save a life. Even if there was a guard with a baton or OC; they had a greater opportunity to stop this crime than 7 witnesses (only 2 dialed 911).
Click to expand...

Sure. While we're at it, let's put a uniformed cop on every street corner in America. [rolleyes]
 
drgrant said:
+1.... If it was a boy that got lost in Aruba instead of Holloway, do you think there would have even been more than a week of press coverage? [thinking]

Apparently to the media anyone who is not a "Beautiful Person" whether in terms of looks or background, isn't newsworthy.


-Mike
Click to expand...

It's also what the ADD afflicted audience demands. Cable TV news is especially audience driven. Fox seems to be the worst, but they are all bad.
 
doobie said:
They called 911! What else do you want them to do? Say, um could you stop doing that, you're getting blood on the floor?

Lemme guess they'll close down this building, bull doze it...and want more money so they can rebuild it somewhere else...so this can be sacred ground...

Has anyone thought of banning the murder of someone else on campus? That might help.
Click to expand...

After the mass murders at V-tech, the owner of Front Sight in Nevada offered free firearms courses to any students wanting to take them. I believe he also offered to provide them with handguns free of charge.

I don't know how many took him up on his offer, but it seems not enough. Calling 911 did nothing to save the women's life, but a well placed double tap probably would have.
 

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