Another pre-ban mag. question

[Mike1911]

Living here in MA with there dumb-ass laws I need to know this: I have 6 pre-ban AR15 mags. if I were to swap out the original old followers for the new Magpul Gen II style is this a no-no? Or is this considered new, rebuilt, or whatever legal-lingo they use, any crazy law against doing this?

Thanks in advance.

 

[drgrant]

I haven't seen anything in MA law against rebuilding mags. Under
the federal law IIRC this was clarified further, but WRT the MA law,
that "opinion" probably wouldn't count. (while MA adopted the FED
awb, they only adopted what I call the "front end" of it that describes
things. )

The way that I look at it, as long as one has the original tube it's
probably fine, as long as you don't end up "making" or "manufacturing"
any "new" magazines you probably will stay within
the confines of the existing law. I think some folks have
even used new tubes (and destroyed, but kept the old ones as
evidence of their "replacement") but I wouldn't go that far.

-Mike

 

[matt1956]

IANAL but i think you can legally rebuild your old/preban mags with no trouble... I can't find the link, but I know this has been covered.

I believe (again IANAL) that the only thing that needs to remain original is the base plate. so if a mag body gets dented, you can replace it, springs can be replaces and followers can be replaced.

Again IANAL, so confirm this with someone that knows better first.

I would

 

[Adam_MA]

I believe (again IANAL) that the only thing that needs to remain original is the base plate. so if a mag body gets dented, you can replace it, springs can be replaces and followers can be replaced.

You have this backward. All of the internals including the base plate can be changed as much as you wish. The magazine body IS the magazine.

 

[matt1956]

gotcha I knew it was something like that, but that was why i stressed the IANAL part

 

[LoginName]

Changing the followers and floorplates on imported mags (pre-ban or post-ban), is an inexpensive and convenient way of bringing rifles built from imported parts kits into 922r compliance.

So, not only is it legally acceptable to swap out pre-ban mag parts, it's practically a requirement given the right circumstance.

 

[EasyD]

You have this backward. All of the internals including the base plate can be changed as much as you wish. The magazine body IS the magazine.

Not according to the ATF during the Federal ban... Not according to the California DOJ... Why would it be different now or in MA?

--EasyD

 

[Len-2A Training]

This is a gray area that is NOT ADDRESSED in MGL. One would have to be a "test case" to get the legal answer to this!

Any volunteers? Step right up!

-------------

Mike is right, Feds defined what is legal to do, whereas MA doesn't even have anyone in MA gov't technically capable of giving a legally binding answer to questions like this.

Whatever changes you make add legal risk. Do as much as you wish up to the point where you feel discomfort. [Something about pots of water and frogs comes to mind here.]

NOTE: I am not trying to be sarcastic here, but there just isn't any real answer for any of us and nobody to ask to get one that will fly in a court of law.

 

[SemiAutoSam]

Here is what one of our DAG's (Deputy Attorney Generals) opinion on the California laws regarding Magazines and rebuilding them.

Not that this would apply to your state but its information for thought.

http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/DOJ-large-cap-magazines-2005-11-10.pdf


Lens this one is for you.

 

[matt1956]

see... that is why i thought it was the base plate that needed to remain because that is where most mag manufactures date code stamped them.

I know that the mag bodies during the ban were stamped for Mil/LE only, but now new or replacement parts no longer have that on the body, but some manufactures are still date code stamping the bottom plate.

well now I've gone crosseyed again

 

[Mike1911]

Mine if I thow a bit of gasoline on this subject (I started this thread).

OK, Bushmaster 20 and 30 rnd. mags. now being sold have no date code and no LEO stamped anywhere on the body or the baseplate. Who's to say someone didn't purchase a case of these (or other pre-ban mags.) before 1994 rebuilt them with new parts and salted them away?

 

[drgrant]

Mine if I thow a bit of gasoline on this subject (I started this thread).

OK, Bushmaster 20 and 30 rnd. mags. now being sold have no date code and no LEO stamped anywhere on the body or the baseplate. Who's to say someone didn't purchase a case of these (or other pre-ban mags.) before 1994 rebuilt them with new parts and salted them away?

Are they marked "bushmaster" or anything else? It's pretty hard
to figure out where an totally unmarked mag actually came
from. A lot of the newer USGI mags have lot numbers and date
codes, but this isn't always the case.

Someone could have, but unless they beat the snot out of them
they would never have had to rebuild them. I have a crapload of
preban AR mags that have no date stamping or lot numbers on
them at all. I also have some USGI contract mags that are
clearly from 1991, I think they're all from Okay industries. Most
of my old mags have had the followers replaced with magpul
followers and ranger plates... Does that make them new mags?
I doubt it.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

see... that is why i thought it was the base plate that needed to remain because that is where most mag manufactures date code stamped them.

That's strange, most of the AR/M16 USGI mags I've seen
that had date codes and lot numbers were marked on the BODY of the mag,
not the floorplate. Further, there is no legal requirement (anywhere!)
that a floor plate be used for identification purposes. If that were the
case I'd have big problems, I have a bunch of steel mags that have -blank-
floorplates on them.

-Mike

 

[Mike1911]

Are they marked "bushmaster" or anything else? It's pretty hard
to figure out where an totally unmarked mag actually came
from.
-Mike

The only marking is on the baseplate, "B.F.I. WINDHAM, ME" and the Bushmaster logo.

 

[matt1956]

Most of my mags have no markings at all..

the couple that do, are on the base plate

all the ones I have seen that are banned, are stamped on the mag body...

still... very confusing....

 

[Moderator]

The post ban Bushmaster mags I have are dated.

 

[ateamrob]

Not according to the ATF during the Federal ban... Not according to the California DOJ... Why would it be different now or in MA?

who the heck is gonna know anyways? who cares? You think the cops are gonna come barreling into the range and go, "excuse me sir can I see the serial # markings on your followers in your magazines?

Of course not. No one is nitpicking stuff that bad nor do they have any proof that of anything as long as the mag does not say, "restricted for LE/Government use only" your golden.
change away.... just make sure to use the original pre ban mag shells and your good to go...

 

[M1911]

who the heck is gonna know anyways? who cares? You think the cops are gonna come barreling into the range and go, "excuse me sir can I see the serial # markings on your followers in your magazines?

According to one member here, there are a few police officers on a LEO web site who claim to be able to distinguish between pre and post-ban web sites and are just itching to bust someone for it.

 

[USMC109]

According to one member here, there are a few police officers on a LEO web site who claim to be able to distinguish between pre and post-ban web sites and are just itching to bust someone for it.

They claim they can distinguish the diff. between the two...but can could they prove it???

 

[USMC109]

who the heck is gonna know anyways? who cares? You think the cops are gonna come barreling into the range and go, "excuse me sir can I see the serial # markings on your followers in your magazines?

Of course not. No one is nitpicking stuff that bad nor do they have any proof that of anything as long as the mag does not say, "restricted for LE/Government use only" your golden.
change away.... just make sure to use the original pre ban mag shells and your good to go...

+1,agreed! Change the springs and followers all you want as none of them are marked and as long as the baseplates don't say "illegal" on them,change those all you want to.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Most of my pre-ban 20 & 30 rd AR mags have no date stampings on them, or they are marked on the mag body itself. Don't recall ever seeing any date code on bottom plates.

A couple of MA DAs have queried Glock's Chief Counsel in an attempt to prosecute MA residents for possession of post-ban hi-caps. This was told to me directly by Glock's Chief Counsel. See Glock's position on this in the thread on same.

True there were some LEOs up in Essex County who claimed that they were "trained" in how to determine post-ban hi-caps and were indeed bragging that they were looking to nail folks. This as on an LE forum that I no longer participate on.

So, yes some LEOs were looking to jam folks up. Even if you don't get convicted, the $10K+ legal bills will leave a mark! Oh yes, the fact that you were arrested for it will haunt you for the rest of your life, as MA does not ever expunge records (even for false arrest).

 

[Gammon]

I have read thta the mag bodies can also be replaced, and I know for a fact that they can be sold in MA. It seems that once you own a legal pre-ban mag, you can rebuild it completely.

 

[M1911]

They claim they can distinguish the diff. between the two...but can could they prove it???

So, after you get arrested and charged, maybe your lawyer gets you off, after you have spent thousands of dollars. Your LTC was revoked, all your guns, ammo, and magazines were taken by the police. After that, do you think your police chief (who has almost complete discretion) will ever issue you an LTC again? If he doesn't, then you are a federally prohibited person who can never own a firearm again.

But what the heck, he couldn't prove anything so you won, right?

 

[FalArAk]

+1

 

[Executive]

I have read thta the mag bodies can also be replaced, and I know for a fact that they can be sold in MA. It seems that once you own a legal pre-ban mag, you can rebuild it completely.

Kind of like the farmer that has had the same shovel for 50 years. He's changed the spade three times and the handle twice but it's the same shovel.

 

[KMaurer]

Even if you don't get convicted, the $10K+ legal bills will leave a mark! Oh yes, the fact that you were arrested for it will haunt you for the rest of your life, as MA does not ever expunge records (even for false arrest).

Of course all of this can take place even if you have never been in possession of any firearm or detachable magazine or feeding device in your life, regardless of capacity or date of manufacturer. There has to be a limit to the paranoia somewhere.

Ken